Cardinal Dolan: Obama's Same-Sex Marriage Support Undermines Society
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LisaA
Guest
One of the sadly amusing comments was by I think the NYT which talked about Obama’s “gut wrenching” decision process and referred to his “courage” at coming out for SSM. Of course he managed as always to keep straddling the fence so as not to totally offend those who weren’t listening closely by claiming this is a personal decision only.
Also laughable was that he came to the decision after discussing with his wife and preteen daughters. I am in such awe of the wisdom of prepubescent children! Remember when Jimmy Carter spoke of asking his daughter Amy about nuclear proliferation or some other important issue?
Aside from this, anyone who is surprised that Obama is Pro SSM has been living under a buttercup. He was for it in 1996 but against it in 2004 and 2008…probably to retain a few conservatives who were asleep at the wheel. Then getting rid of DADT and telling the justice department not to support DOMA clarified that he was only against SSM if it would help get a few votes.
Lisa
Also laughable was that he came to the decision after discussing with his wife and preteen daughters. I am in such awe of the wisdom of prepubescent children! Remember when Jimmy Carter spoke of asking his daughter Amy about nuclear proliferation or some other important issue?
Aside from this, anyone who is surprised that Obama is Pro SSM has been living under a buttercup. He was for it in 1996 but against it in 2004 and 2008…probably to retain a few conservatives who were asleep at the wheel. Then getting rid of DADT and telling the justice department not to support DOMA clarified that he was only against SSM if it would help get a few votes.
Lisa
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JimG
Guest
Now I’m just waiting for his gut-wrenching decision to overturn the HHS mandate because religious liberty is more important that free contraception, free sterilization, free abortion inducing drugs, and forcing Catholic institutions out of business. I’m not holding my breath, though.
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dixieagle
Guest
I think this is all about getting big campaign bucks from the gay community, as some of his other funding sources have dried up, e.g. Wall Street.
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Crescentinus
Guest
If he wants to get the GLBT vote due to desperation, he got it even before this act. If anything, it’s icing on the cake.
Now, even though the number of GLBT voters are small, many Americans tend to support the GLBT lifestyle due to how prominent it is in American media.
Now, even though the number of GLBT voters are small, many Americans tend to support the GLBT lifestyle due to how prominent it is in American media.
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LisaA
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Honestly think this was boneheaded (YAY!!!) because it was so obviously and blatently a political ploy that I suspect even homosexuals wonder if he is someone they can count on if the heat turns up. He has no morals, no ethics and no cajones. He’ll throw that group under the bus if they prove useless to his campaign. We all know it and even supporters are starting to question his protean character
Lisa
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opus101
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MrPip
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LisaA
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Good point! I should have said “Protean characteristics!” Character is not one of his many gifts! He can hold more positions than a Bikram Yoga master.He has character?
Lisa
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MrPip
Guest
Indeed! And each one designed to, as Cardinal Dolan says, undermine society.
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Dirt
Guest
Cardinal Dolan has Truth on His side:
"[26] For this cause God delivered them up to shameful affections. For their women have changed the natural use into that use which is against nature. [27] And, in like manner, the men also, leaving the natural use of the women, have burned in their lusts one towards another, men with men working that which is filthy, and receiving in themselves the recompense which was due to their error. [28] And as they liked not to have God in their knowledge, God delivered them up to a reprobate sense, to do those things which are not convenient; [29] Being filled with all iniquity, malice, fornication, avarice, wickedness, full of envy, murder, contention, deceit, malignity, whisperers, [30] Detractors, hateful to God, contumelious, proud, haughty, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents,
*[26] God delivered them up: Not by being author of their sins, but by withdrawing his grace, and so permitting them, in punishment of their pride, to fall into those shameful sins.
*
[31] Foolish, dissolute, without affection, without fidelity, without mercy. [32] Who, having known the justice of God, did not understand that they who do such things, are worthy of death; and not only they that do them, but they also that consent to them that do them."
Scripture from:
drbo.org/index.htm
"[26] For this cause God delivered them up to shameful affections. For their women have changed the natural use into that use which is against nature. [27] And, in like manner, the men also, leaving the natural use of the women, have burned in their lusts one towards another, men with men working that which is filthy, and receiving in themselves the recompense which was due to their error. [28] And as they liked not to have God in their knowledge, God delivered them up to a reprobate sense, to do those things which are not convenient; [29] Being filled with all iniquity, malice, fornication, avarice, wickedness, full of envy, murder, contention, deceit, malignity, whisperers, [30] Detractors, hateful to God, contumelious, proud, haughty, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents,
*[26] God delivered them up: Not by being author of their sins, but by withdrawing his grace, and so permitting them, in punishment of their pride, to fall into those shameful sins.
*
[31] Foolish, dissolute, without affection, without fidelity, without mercy. [32] Who, having known the justice of God, did not understand that they who do such things, are worthy of death; and not only they that do them, but they also that consent to them that do them."
Scripture from:
drbo.org/index.htm
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Roy5
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I agree with Cardinal Dolan’s criticism of same-sex marriage, although I have ‘evolved’ to the point of accepting civil unions. I have become convinced that same-sex attraction seems to be innate, part of the very nature of many people. One could either say it is a fluke of nature or ‘God-given’.
Code:
At the same time, I also understand that most of those who favor same-sex marriage, certainly among Christians, see it as an expression of justice and equality, and even Christian love.
The Cardinal is playing with fire, though perhaps he doesn't care. Perhaps the Catholic Church will be the loser if it gets too involved in partisan politics. To begin with, a poll I saw found that Catholics, much more than Protestants, favor same-sex marriage. Millions more could be alienated from the Church. Then, too, many leading Catholics, such as Pelosi and Biden, support same-sex marriage. Finally, I hear growing resentment, especially from strong Catholic Democrats, that the Church should not be involved in attacking Obama.
Just some thoughts to toss into the hopper.
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john78
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Everything Obama is doing is undermining the cornerstone of Society.
Some say Jimmy Carter is the worst President we have ever had, others Bush, some say Regan, some say Clinton, Now it appears Obama is in the lead for all time worse President ever.
The problem I have is the saying, those who do not learn from history are bound to repeat it.
Maybe if these politicians, were getting paid the same as say police, firefighters, emt, and didnt have such a luxurious spending account, that these politicians might see things in a different light. But even then i wouldnt hold my breath.
maybe term limits is the way to go,
instead of a 4 yr term as president, it should be cut down to half , or even 1, with a max serving time of 4 years,
when working for a company most everyone goes through a probation period, why shouldnt the president ?
but back on point, this same-sex marrage support is coming full circle and biting obama in the butt,
it is all smoke and mirrors, i am more concerned about what obama is going to do next or what he has planned, not if he is going to create some bill to nationally legalize gay marrage, if legalizing gay marrage on a national basis was in his bag of tricks, he would have shoved it down the peoples throat a long time ago like he did with obama care.
This is not a serious topic for Obama or his administration.
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Havard
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Yeah, I see plenty of huge negatives to that idea. Just off the top of my head:
-It would encourage Presidents to focus even more on short term boosts and fixes, as opposed to long-term, strategic projects and goals for the betterment of all
-Every year would be a campaign year, wasting more of the President’s time, and more of everybody’s money (both in tax dollars and campaign donations)
-There is such a thing as inherited feasts and inherited famines, this would make it even more difficult to asses who’s policies are working and whose aren’t
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john78
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true, but it seems to me, that after the first year or second of a presidents term, if all signs are pointing that a president either doesnt know what he or she is doing, or is doing a horrible job, that ( and i am taking this part directly out of a scene from star wars ) there should be an option to have a vote of no confidence, Which one could say well that is the impeachment process, but impeachment from what i barely know is for presidents who are acting in violation of the constitution in some degree.
I dont think there is a right answer for what i am thinking, it is just 4 yrs and that is it.
A nation votes, and if we vote for the wrong person, who does not have the best interest for America, and the Constitution, then all we can do is sit and wait for that term to end, and hope for better next time.
But of course we can rally, petition, and there are mid term elections which change the way an administration works,
But what are we supposed to do as Americans, if we see a President who is over stepping and or creating rules to by pass laws that are in place as checks n balances, and wants to take all power from the people and place it squarely at his or her desk and at the feet of the government ?
How does a people vote those people out ? Because we all know what happened during the Civil War, can anyone imagine how the world would look, or react if America had to go through another one ?
I dont think there is a right answer for what i am thinking, it is just 4 yrs and that is it.
A nation votes, and if we vote for the wrong person, who does not have the best interest for America, and the Constitution, then all we can do is sit and wait for that term to end, and hope for better next time.
But of course we can rally, petition, and there are mid term elections which change the way an administration works,
But what are we supposed to do as Americans, if we see a President who is over stepping and or creating rules to by pass laws that are in place as checks n balances, and wants to take all power from the people and place it squarely at his or her desk and at the feet of the government ?
How does a people vote those people out ? Because we all know what happened during the Civil War, can anyone imagine how the world would look, or react if America had to go through another one ?
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JimG
Guest
Well, President Obama certainly seems to have set his sights on undermining the Catholic Church in every way possible, beginning with his position on abortion, continuing with the HHS mandate which threatens to shut down Catholic institutions, and continuing with his support of homosexual marriage.
The Catholic Church should fight back. But Cardinal Dolan and the Church are really not so much fighting back to protect the Church, as to protect the larger society from being undermined from within. That is the danger. The Church has survived worse than this. But our culture can only decline so much before dissolving into chaos.
The Catholic Church should fight back. But Cardinal Dolan and the Church are really not so much fighting back to protect the Church, as to protect the larger society from being undermined from within. That is the danger. The Church has survived worse than this. But our culture can only decline so much before dissolving into chaos.
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KCT
Guest
I don’t see marriage as political.
The church is speaking out on opinions. Since when are we not free to disagree with someone?
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LisaA
Guest
I don’t see Cardinal Dolan getting involved in partisan politics. He is merely stating the Church’s position on certain issues. It happens that the Democrat party supports the very issues he notes are against Catholic teaching. It’s not so much a hit on Obama or the Democrats but their positions.
I would be far more disappointed if the Church DIDNT speak up. If someone leaves the Catholic Church because Cardinal Dolan explains our teachings on life issues, then I wonder whether they ever accepted them in the first place.
At this point with this administration the words Catholic Democrat seems to be an oxymoron. You are either one or the other.
Lisa
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Rich_Olszewski
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Lisa, you may have that opinion, but I am a faithful Catholic and a Democrat, even a member of Democrats for Life. Not all of us agree with Obama et al. Sadly, there is no one we Catholic Democrats can in good conscience vote for in November.
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irishpatrick
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Isn’t it far more courageous to speak-out publicly for traditional marriage? After all, the overwhelming majority of the media, the universities, Hollywood, and the left, support legal; ss-marriage. Just look at what happened to Kirk Cameron.
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