Cardinal Dolan Visits New York Mosque

[Pulvis]

patheos.com/blogs/deaconsbench/2013/06/cardinal-dolan-makes-first-visit-to-new-york-city-mosque-you-love-god-we-love-god/

The cardinal asked questions about the Muslim faith and emphasized throughout his visit how much the two religions and their members have in common.
“You love God, we love God and he is the same God,” the cardinal said of the Muslim and Roman Catholic faiths.

He likened Muslims to earlier waves of Roman Catholic immigrants who some 150 years ago faced the same challenge of “how to become loyal, responsible, patriotic Americans without losing their faith.”

Thoughts? Please be civil.

 

[VanSensei]

He did a wonderful thing.

 

[BroomWagon]

and remember always to welcome strangers, for by doing this, some people have entertained angels without knowing it. - Hebrews 13:2

Yes, activism in this mode is good, yes, welcoming strangers is good.

 

[meltzerboy]

patheos.com/blogs/deaconsbench/2013/06/cardinal-dolan-makes-first-visit-to-new-york-city-mosque-you-love-god-we-love-god/

The cardinal asked questions about the Muslim faith and emphasized throughout his visit how much the two religions and their members have in common.
“You love God, we love God and he is the same God,” the cardinal said of the Muslim and Roman Catholic faiths.

He likened Muslims to earlier waves of Roman Catholic immigrants who some 150 years ago faced the same challenge of “how to become loyal, responsible, patriotic Americans without losing their faith.”

Thoughts? Please be civil.

If every religious leader of every faith acted the way Cardinal Dolan does here, we would make greater strides in moving toward world peace and harmony.

 

[Cojuanco]

I agree with His Eminence’s efforts at ecumenism.

 

[YoungTradCath]

I agree with His Eminence’s efforts at ecumenism.

I’m not sure this can properly be called ecumenism, since Muslims are not Christians. This is interreligious dialogue.

 

[JuantheTuba]

“You love God, we love God and he is the same God,”

“So why convert!”

 

[larsont7]

“You love God, we love God and he is the same God,” the cardinal said of the Muslim and Roman Catholic faiths.

Except that the Muslim god bears no resemblance to the Holy Trinity - Father, Son, and Holy Spirit - that we Catholics believe. Unless Jesus Christ is somehow no longer considered God, I don’t know how anyone can reconcile this statement with Catholic theology.

 

[_Abyssinia]

Except that the Muslim god bears no resemblance to the Holy Trinity - Father, Son, and Holy Spirit - that we Catholics believe. Unless Jesus Christ is somehow no longer considered God, I don’t know how anyone can reconcile this statement with Catholic theology.

I would like to know more of Cardinal Dolan’s thoughts on the Muslim view of God and the Christian view of God because isn’t the character of God in the Bible and character of God in the Koran different?

 

[Pulvis]

I would like to know more of Cardinal Dolan’s thoughts on the Muslim view of God and the Christian view of God because isn’t the character of God in the Bible and character of God in the Koran different?

That is my concern. I am not judging the Cardinal for his attendance, but i am concerned about the message his statements send to the Faithful from a Doctrine and Dogma point of View. Ecumenism as I understand it is to work at returning the separated brethren to the Fullness of Christ in the Catholic Church, and leading the lost to Christ. This is the aspect of Ecumenism that I have trouble with, are we to simply accept other religions as valid, and merely seek whatever points we can agree on? Or are we to Bring the World to Christ Jesus and His Church? Muslims refute Christ, and Follow Mohamed as God’s primary Prophet. How can we justify that fact with:
" [6] Jesus saith to him: I am the way, and the truth, and the life. No man cometh to the Father, but by me." Gospel of St. John; Ch. 14

 

[markomalley]

patheos.com/blogs/deaconsbench/2013/06/cardinal-dolan-makes-first-visit-to-new-york-city-mosque-you-love-god-we-love-god/

The cardinal asked questions about the Muslim faith and emphasized throughout his visit how much the two religions and their members have in common.
“You love God, we love God and he is the same God,” the cardinal said of the Muslim and Roman Catholic faiths.

He likened Muslims to earlier waves of Roman Catholic immigrants who some 150 years ago faced the same challenge of “how to become loyal, responsible, patriotic Americans without losing their faith.”

Thoughts? Please be civil.

I don’t have a problem with Cardinal Dolan visiting a mosque. I don’t have a problem with him saying that we worship the same God. From the Staten Island Advance:

Cardinal Dolan stressed that Catholics and Muslims have a mutual love of the United States and of the religious freedom that this country affords, especially the ability to meet with people of different beliefs that would not be possible in some other nations.
“Your love of marriage and family, your love of children and babies, your love of freedom – religious freedom particularly-- your defense of life, your desire for harmony and unity and your care for others, your care for God’s creation and your care for those who are in need,” the cardinal said, were Islamic values also shared by Catholics and areas where there could be mutual cooperation.
He likened Muslims to earlier waves of Roman Catholic immigrants who some 150 years ago faced the same challenge of “how to become loyal, responsible, patriotic Americans without losing their faith.”
As those Catholic immigrants did, Muslims have learned the value of religious schools, he said. “Education without faith is missing something dramatic,” the cardinal said.
However, I think that the analogies he drew are somewhat imprudent, to put it mildly. I don’t know of any religiously-based terrorism being perpetuated by Catholics in this country. I don’t know of Catholics in this country perpetuating female genital mutilation. I don’t know of Catholics in this country who worked as taxi drivers refusing to transport people who drove from a meat market on Friday (as many Muslim cabbies refuse to transport alcohol or people who have had a few too many). And so on and so forth.

I also do not think it is prudent to encourage a non-Christian sect that has a strong evangelical side (who would gladly encourage Christians toward apostasy).

But that is not saying that he shouldn’t have gone to a mosque…

 

[hank3fan]

Careful, Tim. It is nice to be nice, but be mindful that they may seek to use you to gain legitimacy. Anyway, the Cardinal rocks.

 

[Digitonomy]

I don’t know how anyone can reconcile this statement with Catholic theology.

Time to trot out the sentence from the Lumen Gentium:

16
“The plan of salvation also includes those who acknowledge the Creator, in the first place amongst whom are the Muslims; these profess to hold the faith of Abraham, and together with us they adore the one, merciful God, mankind’s judge on the last day.”

So if those involved in the Second Vatican Council were able to do it, and those involved in the Catechism of the Catholic Church were able to do it, and Cardinal Dolan is able to do it, it must not be that hard to reconcile that concept with Catholic theology.

 

[Yves_Congar]

**Cardinal Dolan: Church closings are possible in Staten Island (photos) **

silive.com/news/index.ssf/2013/06/cardinal_dolan_church_closings.html

Prior to presiding at a joyous Father’s Day debt-burning ceremony at St. Ann’s R.C. Church in Dongan Hills, Cardinal Timothy Dolan had some bad news for ailing parishes as he acknowledged that church closings are on the table as part of the Archdiocese of New York’s, “Making All Things New,” initiative.

The cardinal’s final decisions are expected to be implemented on Jan. 1, 2015. A letter from the cardinal that was read at weekend masses at parishes throughout Staten Island confirmed what was previously reported in the Advance, that the parishes of St. Joseph’s and St. Mary’s in Rosebank and Immaculate Conception in Stapleton will be headed by one pastor as a prelude to the parish restructuring program.

While the three parishes will operate independently and no mention was made of shuttering any of them, the cardinal indicated that they will be working together to determine their future viability.

The cardinal made it clear in his blog and last week’s Catholic New York that he thinks there are too many parishes and that he wants to trim the $48 million that the archdiocese spends each year to operate its churches and schools. The archdiocese already has shuttered some parish schools – including those at St. Joseph’s, St. Mary’s, and Immaculate Conception – in its move to a regional education system.

“We have too many parishes” the cardinal stated in Catholic New York. “We no longer need 385 parishes.”

He further explained the archdiocese’s financial predicament, saying in Catholic New York: “We devote a lopsided amount of money to maintain parishes and buildings we no longer need. Simply put, we can no longer put out $48 million a year to keep on life support parishes, buildings and schools we no longer need.”

When asked by an Advance reporter if churches would be shuttered, the cardinal said that Making All Things New would look at a “whole menu of opportunities” including, but not limited to, “merging, consolidating and even, on rare occasions, closing” parishes. The most “dramatic shifts” he said will be in Manhattan, which has an excess of parishes for its population of Roman Catholics, and the Bronx. Read more here.

 

[pnewton]

Except that the Muslim god bears no resemblance to the Holy Trinity - Father, Son, and Holy Spirit - that we Catholics believe. Unless Jesus Christ is somehow no longer considered God, I don’t know how anyone can reconcile this statement with Catholic theology.

It does not conflict with Catholic theology, which I am sure Cardinal Dolan is well-versed in. He said it is the same God, not that the Muslims were correct in everything they believe about God. Abraham, Isaac and Jacob had some incorrect beliefs about God. I am sure in heaven, we too will learn that much of what we think we know of God is mistaken. Yet, the core belief is all correct. God is still one. When dealing with a transcendent God, inaccuracy is unavoidable.

 

[Pulvis]

If a Prince of the Church does not promote and defend the Faith, as established by Jesus Christ and first propagated by the Apostles, If He does not point out error and Teach the way of Salvation to those in error, then why do we have a Catholic Church? Really, if all other religions have part of the truth, if all “good” people are justified, if even those who reject Jesus as the True Son of God are OK, why bother? Why evangelize? Why do Mission work? It seems rather pointless to me. If All the worlds religions, no matter how bizarre are OK, then everything the Church has done for over 2000 years, every martyr and Saint, have worked and died for nothing. Every missionary has sacrificed and died for zilch. Nada. Wasted time.
Up until 1962 the Popes and Doctors of the Church were in agreement as to the primacy of the Catholic Church. There have been numerous encyclicals written warning of false ecumenism, irenicism, and the dangers of allowing worldly thought and theology to invade the Church. Yet here we now are, blurring the lines between the One, Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church and every other sect, group and wannabe faith cult regardless of how error ridden they are. I find this Orwellian, up is down and down is up. I really cannot grasp the insanity any more.

One more thing, since I seem to have allowed myself to trail off to vent land:
With all Charity, and may God Richly Bless Him, but perhaps if +Cardinal Dolan were to spend more time evangelizing the folks in New York, and devote his time and energies to actually doing the work of an Apostle, He would not have to worry about having too many unused Parishes in New York City.

Sorry.

 

[livingwordunity]

Muslims believe that we are blaspheming when we call God our Father and when we say that Jesus is the only begotten Son of God and when we say that Jesus was crucified. They believe our doctrine of the Holy Trinity is blasphemy. That doesn’t leave much for us to have in common other than we both belong to a religion. But may God bless Cardinal Dolan for his efforts.

 

[pnewton]

If a Prince of the Church does not promote and defend the Faith, as established by Jesus Christ and first propagated by the Apostles, If He does not point out error and Teach the way of Salvation to those in error, then why do we have a Catholic Church? Really, if all other religions have part of the truth, if all “good” people are justified, if even those who reject Jesus as the True Son of God are OK, why bother? Why evangelize? Why do Mission work? It seems rather pointless to me. If All the worlds religions, no matter how bizarre are OK, then everything the Church has done for over 2000 years, every martyr and Saint, have worked and died for nothing. Every missionary has sacrificed and died for zilch. Nada. Wasted time.

Your re-wording of what Cardinal Dolan said and did is an incredible exaggeration of what he said, as he accurately held to Church doctrine. Tying this to some sort of post hoc prompter hoc fallacy is unfair.

 

[Pulvis]

Your re-wording of what Cardinal Dolan said and did is an incredible exaggeration of what he said, as he accurately held to Church doctrine. Tying this to some sort of post hoc prompter hoc fallacy is unfair.

I did not intend to re-word the Cardinal. I did not quote Him at all. Please explain to me the proper, in your opinion, take away for the Cardinal having attended this event and making the comments he did.

I simply pointed out that as a Bishop, descended from the Apostles, He, and every Bishop across the world, should Preach the Faith to the lost and those in error.

“[16] And the eleven disciples went into Galilee, unto the mountain where Jesus had appointed them. [17] And seeing him they adored: but some doubted. [18] And Jesus coming, spoke to them, saying: All power is given to me in heaven and in earth. [19] Going therefore, teach ye all nations; baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost. [20] Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and behold I am with you all days, even to the consummation of the world.”
Gospel of Saint Matthew, Ch. 28 from drbo.org/index.htm

Am i mistaken about what a Bishop is? Do I have an improper catechesis as to the functions and duties of a Bishop in The Catholic Church? I am trying to be Charitable, but i simply fail to understand how a Bishop can join in with those of a faith which denies the most important basis of The Catholic Faith, Jesus Christ Crucified and Risen, and simply play it off as no big deal. I just do not grasp how, when Muslims are killing Christians across the middle east, a Cardinal of the Catholic Church can provide such a stamp of endorsement to a sect that is heretical in nature. Jim Jones understood the Faith, yet he murdered 100’s. David Koresh knew the Gospel but was bat-sh*t crazy. The KKK down here were mostly God Fearing Protestants, except when they were killing Blacks and terrorizing Catholics and Jews. Simply having one thing in common does not excuse the weight of error and evil done under a false sense of belief. If the True goal of Ecumenism is not to convert the World to Christ, just what is the hoped for result? What form of unity can be achieved if the unity is not centered on Jesus Christ and His Church? Did The Church not fight numerous battles against the Muslims in order to protect Christian Europe from forced conversion? I just do not get it.

 

[meltzerboy]

If a Prince of the Church does not promote and defend the Faith, as established by Jesus Christ and first propagated by the Apostles, If He does not point out error and Teach the way of Salvation to those in error, then why do we have a Catholic Church? Really, if all other religions have part of the truth, if all “good” people are justified, if even those who reject Jesus as the True Son of God are OK, why bother? Why evangelize? Why do Mission work? It seems rather pointless to me. If All the worlds religions, no matter how bizarre are OK, then everything the Church has done for over 2000 years, every martyr and Saint, have worked and died for nothing. Every missionary has sacrificed and died for zilch. Nada. Wasted time.
Up until 1962 the Popes and Doctors of the Church were in agreement as to the primacy of the Catholic Church. There have been numerous encyclicals written warning of false ecumenism, irenicism, and the dangers of allowing worldly thought and theology to invade the Church. Yet here we now are, blurring the lines between the One, Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church and every other sect, group and wannabe faith cult regardless of how error ridden they are. I find this Orwellian, up is down and down is up. I really cannot grasp the insanity any more.

One more thing, since I seem to have allowed myself to trail off to vent land:
With all Charity, and may God Richly Bless Him, but perhaps if +Cardinal Dolan were to spend more time evangelizing the folks in New York, and devote his time and energies to actually doing the work of an Apostle, He would not have to worry about having too many unused Parishes in New York City.

Sorry.

Cardinal Dolan does evangelize the folks in New York by means of his charity and love for them and his speaking up for the Church on all kinds of social issues. However, he also understands the idea of freedom of religion, especially in a city as diverse as New York.