Cardinal Dolan's Response to the Al Smith Dinner Backlash

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Seeker1961 said:
Can you please describe the laws that this administration has passed that come anywhere in the neighborhood of what is going on in China, the Middle East or any other country where Christians literally pay for their faith with their lives?

Paying for birth control pills is not the same thing…it’s still upsetting and it’s still against what our church believes, but it’s not threatening our ability to express our faith or worship as we choose. We can still use our votes and our voices to speak out about what our Church teaches and to place people in office that will respect our beliefs more.

There are people all over this planet that would be eternally grateful for the opportunities we have and we need to remember them when we get worked up over our own issues.
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So, Catholics must wait until they are being killed before taking a stand? By that time it is too late.
 
fix said:
So, Catholics must wait until they are being killed before taking a stand? By that time it is too late.
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Exactly! I don’t understand Seeker1961’s post at all. Does he want us to all be martyrs before we are heard to use the word tyranny? Not to mention the fact that the HHS mandate is a tyrannical imposition of government upon religious.
 
Tighty_Whitey said:
Exactly! I don’t understand Seeker1961’s post at all. Does he want us to all be martyrs before we are heard to use the word tyranny? Not to mention the fact that the HHS mandate is a tyrannical imposition of government upon religious.
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The left only sees harm when there is evidence of direct physical damage. That is why they allow so much immorality to be supported like abortion, homosexual unions, and much else. They see it as no real harm.
 
Seeker1961 said:
American Christians have a love affair going with being victims. It’s appalling when you know what happens to Christians In other countries.
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It’s quite true that Christian persecution is and has been worse at other times and in other places. That’s even more reason to try to stop the trend toward religious persecution in the United States.

“At the present moment, Catholics in this country are facing challenges to our institutional existence and our mission that we thought would never arise here. … The laws that used to protect us are now being used to weaken and destroy us, and this quite deliberately”
–Cardinal Francis George

wdtprs.com/blog/2012/02/religious-persecution-and-martyrdom/
 
fix said:
The left only sees harm when there is evidence of direct physical damage. That is why they allow so much immorality to be supported like abortion, homosexual unions, and much else. They see it as no real harm.
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No one on these forums are allowing anything and to use such a tactic as belittling someone with insinuations is not viewed as an honest participation in a discussion, in my opinion.

Can we please get back on topic?
 
JimG said:
It’s quite true that Christian persecution is and has been worse at other times and in other places. That’s even more reason to try to stop the trend toward religious persecution in the United States.

“At the present moment, Catholics in this country are facing challenges to our institutional existence and our mission that we thought would never arise here. … The laws that used to protect us are now being used to weaken and destroy us, and this quite deliberately”
–Cardinal Francis George

wdtprs.com/blog/2012/02/religious-persecution-and-martyrdom/
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It is obvious that the HHS mandate is part of a very concerted attack on religious liberty in this country, the champions of such attack do not care about the consequences they cause, rather they are eager to merely destroy and persecute. HHS definitely seeks to end the invovlment of religious in the provision of healthcare in this country. Next it will be schools and then our churches. We must fight and this is why Cardinal Dolan’s decision is very very wrong.
 
Tighty_Whitey said:
It is obvious that the HHS mandate is part of a very concerted attack on religious liberty in this country, the champions of such attack do not care about the consequences they cause, rather they are eager to merely destroy and persecute. HHS definitely seeks to end the invovlment of religious in the provision of healthcare in this country. Next it will be schools and then our churches. We must fight and this is why Cardinal Dolan’s decision is very very wrong.
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You do realize that Cardinal Dolan has filed a lawsuit against this administration in reference to the HHS, right?
 
Prodigal_Son1 said:
No one on these forums are allowing anything and to use such a tactic as belittling someone with insinuations is not viewed as an honest participation in a discussion, in my opinion.

Can we please get back on topic?
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I made a general statement which is true and may be confirmed through reading many, many posts right here on these fora.

How often have you read a post that says I see nothing wrong with fill in the blank as no one is really hurt.

In the same way claiming there is no persecution of the Catholic faith today because people are not being thrown into ovens goes to my point.

There is no belittling going on. I am simply expressing what I see.
 
fix said:
I made a general statement which is true and may be confirmed through reading many, many posts right here on these fora.

How often have you read a post that says I see nothing wrong with fill in the blank as no one is really hurt.

In the same way claiming there is no persecution of the Catholic faith today because people are not being thrown into ovens goes to my point.

There is no belittling going on. I am simply expressing what I see.
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The ‘general statement’ was made to another poster’s direct comments specifically naming another poster. If I made a mistake I apologize. Those type insinuations are often cast towards people who don’t share an opinion.

No one said, ‘there is no persecution of the Catholic faith today…’ There was a reference made to how good we actually have it in this country for some to complain of persecution when our brothers and sisters are suffering real persecutions in other countries.
 
Cardinal Dolan states:

“Three, the teaching of the Church, so radiant in the Second Vatican Council, is that the posture of the Church towards culture, society, and government is that of engagement and dialogue. In other words, it’s better to invite than to ignore, more effective to talk together than to yell from a distance, more productive to open a door than to shut one. Our recent popes have been examples of this principle, receiving dozens of leaders with whom on some points they have serious disagreements. Thus did our present Holy Father graciously receive our current President of the United States.* And, in the current climate, we bishops have maintained that we are open to dialogue with the administration to try and resolve our differences.* What message would I send if I refused to meet with the President?”

His last question is just what the Obama administration should have had to deal with. A far as I’m concerned that message would have told Obama ENOUGH! DId Jesus chat with the money changers at the temple? NO he drove them out!
 
Tighty_Whitey said:
Cardinal Dolan states:

“Three, the teaching of the Church, so radiant in the Second Vatican Council, is that the posture of the Church towards culture, society, and government is that of engagement and dialogue. In other words, it’s better to invite than to ignore, more effective to talk together than to yell from a distance, more productive to open a door than to shut one. Our recent popes have been examples of this principle, receiving dozens of leaders with whom on some points they have serious disagreements. Thus did our present Holy Father graciously receive our current President of the United States.* And, in the current climate, we bishops have maintained that we are open to dialogue with the administration to try and resolve our differences.* What message would I send if I refused to meet with the President?”

His last question is just what the Obama administration should have had to deal with. A far as I’m concerned that message would have told Obama ENOUGH! DId Jesus chat with the money changers at the temple? NO he drove them out!
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I see. You think Obama is into shady money transactions. Why didn’t you say so earlier?
 
Tighty_Whitey said:
Cardinal Dolan states:

“Three, the teaching of the Church, so radiant in the Second Vatican Council, is that the posture of the Church towards culture, society, and government is that of engagement and dialogue. In other words, it’s better to invite than to ignore, more effective to talk together than to yell from a distance, more productive to open a door than to shut one. Our recent popes have been examples of this principle, receiving dozens of leaders with whom on some points they have serious disagreements. Thus did our present Holy Father graciously receive our current President of the United States.* And, in the current climate, we bishops have maintained that we are open to dialogue with the administration to try and resolve our differences.* What message would I send if I refused to meet with the President?”

His last question is just what the Obama administration should have had to deal with. A far as I’m concerned that message would have told Obama ENOUGH! DId Jesus chat with the money changers at the temple? NO he drove them out!
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But his last paragraph states:
In the end, I’m encouraged by the example of Jesus, who was blistered by his critics for dining with those some considered sinners; and by the recognition that, if I only sat down with people who agreed with me, and I with them, or with those who were saints, I’d be taking all my meals alone.
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Also, in the part you posted he references the Holy Father giving audience to the Obamas; why hold the Cardinal accountable and say nothing about Pope Benedict giving audience to him?
 
Prodigal_Son1 said:
But his last paragraph states:

Also, in the part you posted he references the Holy Father giving audience to the Obamas; why hold the Cardinal accountable and say nothing about Pope Benedict giving audience to him?
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THe Holy Father met with Obama prior to the HHS mandate.
 
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