Cardinal George rejects 'conservative v. liberal' Catholicism

[thereseozi]

catholicculture.org/news/headlines/index.cfm?storyid=4260

October 07, 2009

John Allen of the National Catholic Reporter offers a lengthy, interesting interview with Cardinal Francis George, concentrating on the cardinal’s plea to move beyond “liberal” and “conservative” Catholicism and instead embrace “simply Catholicism.” A sample:

Consequently, when you get into the church, you get the conservatives unhappy because bishops aren’t using power the way they’re supposed to, the way they want them to. You get liberals who are unhappy because [the bishops] have any power at all. Both of them are defining themselves vis-à-vis the bishops rather than vis-à-vis Christ, who uses the bishops to govern the church. It’s not a Christ-centered church, as it’s supposed to be, it’s a bishop-centered church.

…

 

[manualman]

Overall it’s a good article, but it suffers the same malady that most homilies suffer from: It’s 3 times longer than it should be to convey the actual content.

Mark Twain said best: “I’d have written you a shorter letter, but I was distracted and pressed for time.” (OK it’s my crude paraphrase from leaky memory…)

 

[Father_of_9]

This thread, along with several other threads or new articles of a similar nature, made me think a lot about the state of the Catholic Church in the US and around the world. I think that we as Catholics have spent too much time and energy focusing on the institution and not on the Good News. As long as we stay mired in the countless arguments, politics and scandals that consume our attention every day, we have little time or energy left to try to lead holy and prayerful lives. Even at a parish level where many of us are so involved in various groups and activities, we lose sight of the bigger picture. Somehow we have to get back to the basics as individuals, as families, as parishes, etc. Otherwise, all the supposedly “good” things we try to accomplish won’t last.

 

[irishpatrick]

I will say again, the single major problem with the Church in this nation is ABORTION and the lack of continuity among the clergy regarding that issue…there is simply no unified leadership regarding that issue…none!

How can we expect there to be proper perspective among Catholics when such a scourge exists not only in the world, but among Catholics sitting next to us in pews and all defending their defense of defenseless acts!

ABORTION—ABORTION—ABORTION!

Until we stand united on that issue, the Church will remain in great turmoil…imo.

We can speak quite reasonably and fairly about the liturgy, or about receiving Communion in the hand or on the tongue, or upon a hundred other issues. However, there simply is no middle ground when it comes to killing the unborn and therein lies our most significant problem. I believe the Church is being chastised for the way it has handled that issue, and as the Church goes, so does the nation and the world. If the Church becomes much more tied to Christ and to life, the world will improve in very short order…again imo.

 

[Soutane]

I will say again, the single major problem with the Church in this nation is ABORTION and the lack of continuity among the clergy regarding that issue…there is simply no unified leadership regarding that issue…none!

How can we expect there to be proper perspective among Catholics when such a scourge exists not only in the world, but among Catholics sitting next to us in pews and all defending their defense of defenseless acts!

ABORTION—ABORTION—ABORTION!

Until we stand united on that issue, the Church will remain in great turmoil…imo.

We can speak quite reasonably and fairly about the liturgy, or about receiving Communion in the hand or on the tongue, or upon a hundred other issues. However, there simply is no middle ground when it comes to killing the unborn and therein lies our most significant problem. I believe the Church is being chastised for the way it has handled that issue, and as the Church goes, so does the nation and the world. If the Church becomes much more tied to Christ and to life, the world will improve in very short order…again imo.

I couldn’t agree more

 

[irishpatrick]

I couldn’t agree more

It makes me sad that so few Catholics see the truth. So many people wonder why the Church is suffering so much, yet they will not allow themselves to see the obvious. Discipline or chastisement can easily begin the House of God.

 

[rep140]

ABORTION—ABORTION—ABORTION!

IMO Catholics are more in agreement with the Church’s position on this issue than contraception. The gap between Church teaching on contraception and the attitude of Catholics of child bearing age is enormous. This gap is the forrunner of the abortion controversy.

 

[irishpatrick]

ABORTION—ABORTION—ABORTION!

IMO Catholics are more in agreement with the Church’s position on this issue than contraception. The gap between Church teaching on contraception and the attitude of Catholics of child bearing age is enormous. This gap is the forrunner of the abortion controversy.

I disagree. If Catholics were in agreement in large percentages about abortion, Obama would not have been elected, and he certainly would never have been invited to Georgetown or Notre Dame. No unity of faith.

 

[recidite_plbs]

ABORTION—ABORTION—ABORTION!

IMO Catholics are more in agreement with the Church’s position on this issue than contraception. The gap between Church teaching on contraception and the attitude of Catholics of child bearing age is enormous. This gap is the forrunner of the abortion controversy.

This is a closer analysis. There are also major areas of disagreement between the liberal and conservative wings of the church, and these come before the discussion on abortion, which for many catholics is still quite abstract.

Liturgy.

Many people are content with respectful middle of the road liturgy. They get drowned out by the ageing “liberal” crowd that want folk clown disco masses in every parish. The reality is that most catholics don’t mind a bit of Latin, would prefer not to be forced to hold hands during the Our Father, make new best mates with the person next to them in the pews at various points in the mass, and to be left to quietly reflect on the mass. They prefer decent liturgical music to the cumby yah my Lord garbage peddled out of the 70’s and 80’s, but equally they don’t want to be subjected to the liturgy queens of the LMS or be forced to have bad trendy liturgy or Pontifical High Mass in the Extraordinary Form at the other with nothing in between. So you get 2 extremes that see each other as the enemy an 99% of catholics who would just like some quiet dignity.

Contraception

You try keeping a roof over your head with hugely rising house prices that even a single decent salary couldn’t afford on one income and massive child care costs to enable your spouse to go to work, let alone the costs of a large family. When the RCC gets its head around economics it may understand why many couples who can even agree with the principles of that particular moral issue find it impossible to put into practice.

Divorce

You’ll find that for most catholics the issue isn’t either divorce or the church’s stand on divorce and re-marriage. A lot of people have problems with the issue of annulments and the Tribunal process, and that is what tips their hand.

 

[manualman]

I disagree with most of the above and think Cardinal George is closer to correct.

The problems noted above are not THE problem, they are ways in which THE problem is manifested. THE problem is a lack of a true loving discipleship relationship between the average catholic in the pew today and Christ himself. Far too many today don’t see their faith as a relationship with a living God, but as a moral code that they live by.

Get folks back to understanding that God is not remote and far away, but close and so loving as to provide us with guidance and people will once again desire to mold themselves to HIM instead of trying to mold him into their own opinions and desires.

When you KNOW God and trust him, it becomes pretty clear just what abortion really is. When you know God and trust him, it becomes reasonable to trust him and go with HIS plan for sexuality instead of our own or our culture’s. Even when the pull of our culture and our fallen desires are united against God’s plan for sexuality.

You can’t treat the symptoms here first. The symptoms will NOT go away until the disease is cured.

 

[garysibio]

I will say again, the single major problem with the Church in this nation is ABORTION and the lack of continuity among the clergy regarding that issue…there is simply no unified leadership regarding that issue…none!

How can we expect there to be proper perspective among Catholics when such a scourge exists not only in the world, but among Catholics sitting next to us in pews and all defending their defense of defenseless acts!

ABORTION—ABORTION—ABORTION!

Until we stand united on that issue, the Church will remain in great turmoil…imo.

We can speak quite reasonably and fairly about the liturgy, or about receiving Communion in the hand or on the tongue, or upon a hundred other issues. However, there simply is no middle ground when it comes to killing the unborn and therein lies our most significant problem. I believe the Church is being chastised for the way it has handled that issue, and as the Church goes, so does the nation and the world. If the Church becomes much more tied to Christ and to life, the world will improve in very short order…again imo.

First, let me say I see your point. I don’t understand how anyone who supports abortion can call themselves a Catholic much less be a priest, nun, deacon, seminarian, … I’m sure there are other issues that could also be substituted for abortion in your post that I could say the same thing about.

At the root of every single possible issue you could mention is a lack of personal holiness. Holiness is not being taught from the pulpit and people have forgotten about it. I returned to Catholicism from Evangelical Christianity in 1987 and I can count on my fingers how many times I’ve heard sin mentioned in a homily.

 

[garysibio]

I disagree. If Catholics were in agreement in large percentages about abortion, Obama would not have been elected, and he certainly would never have been invited to Georgetown or Notre Dame. No unity of faith.

A lot of people voted for BHO not knowing what his position on abortion was despite conservative attempts to show him to be not only pro-abortion but pro-infanticide. Most people get their news from sources that were blatantly pro-left and they weren’t being given the facts. I’ve run into a lot of people who were truly surprised to find out he wasn’t pro-life.

As far as the universities are concerned, how many people does it take to extend an invitation?