Cardinal in 'Nazi art term' row

[Digitonomy]

Once again evidence that Church leaders need a little more public relations savviness.

The BBC’s Marianne Landzettel says this was no off-the-cuff remark by the cardinal, delivered in a sermon in Cologne Cathedral, but was precisely scripted.

She says the phrase degenerate art - “entartete Kunst” - in German has only one connotation: that of Nazi Germany and the persecution of artists, the banning of paintings and the burning of books.

“Entartete Kunst” was the name of an exhibition of works organised by the Nazis in 1937 in Munich as a warning to the German people.

“I thought all this was history, and then it is a high-ranking member of the Catholic clergy who uses it,” [a former state minister] said.
Source

 

[bones_IV]

Once again evidence that Church leaders need a little more public relations savviness.

Huh? I don’t think I follow here. The good Cardinal is saying that when art becomes evil it infects everyone like the ebola virus. Take a hint.

 

[Digitonomy]

Huh? I don’t think I follow here.

Not only was the bishop’s message obscured by his poor choice of words, he also kicked up enmity and resentment among those who could have been his allies on this and other issues. All of which could have been avoided with a little more careful presentation.

 

[bones_IV]

The media said,
“The BBC’s Marianne Landzettel says this was no off-the-cuff remark by the cardinal, delivered in a sermon in Cologne Cathedral, but was precisely scripted.”

The Cardinal said,

Art became estranged from worship, culture became degenerate.
So you like to play w/ words huh? Show me where the Cardinal didn’t choose his words carefully. The news release is once again taking pot shots at the Church by comparing a statement by the Cardinal to that of Nazi beliefs. Perhaps you should have your head examined?

 

[Digitonomy]

"bones_IV:

Perhaps you should have your head examined?

I don’t think your rudeness is called for. Let’s try to stick to the topic, instead of throwing insults.

Show me where the Cardinal didn’t choose his words carefully.

Careful in the sense of taking care not to use obviously offensive language, and taking care not to obscure his message by creating an off-topic ruckus in the press.

bones_IV:

The news release is once again taking pot shots at the Church by comparing a statement by the Cardinal to that of Nazi beliefs.

I’m not sure whether anyone issued a news release. Regardless, when a major figure uses predictably offensive language, it’s a legitimate news story. It would like me saying “Building a new synagogue on the other side of town would be the final solution to congestion in this neighborhood.” Or rather, it would be like the bishop, or the mayor or governor saying that.

 

[Dale_M]

It would like me saying “Building a new synagogue on the other side of town would be the final solution to congestion in this neighborhood.”

The phrase would have heavier cultural connotations if spoken in Germany, in which actual events took place involving the phrase.

The word “degenerate” when applied to art has little baggage in the United States, and doesn’t sound inflammatory. But in Germany, it could be expected that definite historical connotations are evoked by referring to art as “degenerate”.

Edit:
Here is what the Cardinal said:
“Let us not forget that there is an indisputable connection between culture and religion. Where culture is uncoupled from … the worship of God, religion becomes moribund in rituals and culture degenerates”
ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5hGAIj7FIJoNQZBHheoATiFKQSgFw

Or another translation:
“Wherever culture is separated from the worship of God, the cult atrophies in ritualism and culture becomes degenerate.”
dw-world.de/dw/article/0,2144,2784112,00.html

The last link explains that the word “degenerate” is hardly ever used in Germany today because of its association in the Nazi past". But the first translation uses the word as a verb, and the second translation uses it as an adjective. I wonder if the difference between the two is important?

 

[Bennie_P]

The phrase would have heavier cultural connotations if spoken in Germany, in which actual events took place involving the phrase.

The word “degenerate” when applied to art has little baggage in the United States, and doesn’t sound inflammatory. But in Germany, it could be expected that definite historical connotations are evoked by referring to art as “degenerate”.

Edit:
Here is what the Cardinal said:
“Let us not forget that there is an indisputable connection between culture and religion. Where culture is uncoupled from … the worship of God, religion becomes moribund in rituals and culture degenerates”
ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5hGAIj7FIJoNQZBHheoATiFKQSgFw

Or another translation:
“Wherever culture is separated from the worship of God, the cult atrophies in ritualism and culture becomes degenerate.”
dw-world.de/dw/article/0,2144,2784112,00.html

The last link explains that the word “degenerate” is hardly ever used in Germany today because of its association in the Nazi past". But the first translation uses the word as a verb, and the second translation uses it as an adjective. I wonder if the difference between the two is important?

The Germans have tried to wash away the Nazi past to the point that they have made taboo a lot of sayings, words,symbols, etc…Otherwise they bend over backwards to make up for their Nazi past. Truly the BBC report is making more out of this then they should, but the Cardinal probably should have been more careful in the selection of words. PC in Germany was a problem under the Nazis and to make of for it is overtly PC now.