Cardinal Kasper on the Final Synod Document

[Peccavi]

Interesting opinions but as Jesus said if you judge others expect to be judged. I fear you Christians do far too much judging of others which is why I became a Nazarene ( the earliest church led by James, brother of Jesus).

 

[dans0622]

Interesting opinions but as Jesus said if you judge others expect to be judged. I fear you Christians do far too much judging of others which is why I became a Nazarene ( the earliest church led by James, brother of Jesus).

We will be judged, no matter what.

May I ask who judged anyone in any of the responses to your question and what was the judgment?

Dan

 

[Peccavi]

I was making a generalised comment about Christians and I am not the first to do so - Ghandi said much the same long before I did. Christians are very judgemental which is odd because Jesus wasn’t.

 

[LittleFlower378]

I was making a generalised comment about Christians and I am not the first to do so - Ghandi said much the same long before I did. Christians are very judgemental which is odd because Jesus wasn’t.

Your judging Christians for judging

 

[JPUSC]

Your judging Christians for judging

Who am I to judge?

 

[pnewton]

. Christians are very judgemental which is odd because Jesus wasn’t.

“Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You build tombs for the prophets and decorate the graves of the righteous. 30 And you say, ‘If we had lived in the days of our ancestors, we would not have taken part with them in shedding the blood of the prophets.’ 31 So you testify against yourselves that you are the descendants of those who murdered the prophets. 32 Go ahead, then, and complete what your ancestors started!
33 “You snakes! You brood of vipers! How will you escape being condemned to hell? 34 Therefore I am sending you prophets and sages and teachers. Some of them you will kill and crucify; others you will flog in your synagogues and pursue from town to town. 35 And so upon you will come all the righteous blood that has been shed on earth, from the blood of righteous Abel to the blood of Zechariah son of Berekiah, whom you murdered between the temple and the altar. 36 Truly I tell you, all this will come on this generation.

You also know, I hope, that Jesus is the final great judge of all mankind.

 

[ARSpade]

Interesting opinions but as Jesus said if you judge others expect to be judged. I fear you Christians do far too much judging of others which is why I became a Nazarene ( the earliest church led by James, brother of Jesus).

We all get judged.

What Jesus actually said was that we would be judged by the standard by which we judge others.

 

[zz912]

I’m divorced but not remarried. The divorce was not of my choosing. Would Jesus have punished me for anothers sin ?

No. Being divorced when it was not your choice is akin to spousal abandonment. That is not a sin. Even if you did sin in wanting the divorce, or caused the divorce, you could go to Confession, and be admitted to Communion again. Attempts to remarry are the problem.

Well, he didn’t add “except if they leave you” as an exemption in the passage.

Jesus’ passage and teaching speaks about those who attempt to marry again. Those who are divorced by do not attempt to marry again incur no sin of adultery.

I would point out that there are many times we have to bear the consequences of the sin of another person.

This is very true. Sin affects those around us and society as a whole. The consequences of sin emanate like a ripple on a lake.

Interesting opinions but as Jesus said if you judge others expect to be judged. I fear you Christians do far too much judging of others which is why I became a Nazarene ( the earliest church led by James, brother of Jesus).

As others noted, we all get judged. We are called to judge actions, but not the state of another’s soul. That is Jesus’ judgment.

Where are the early Christian writings that detail the beliefs of this Nazarene church?

I was making a generalised comment about Christians and I am not the first to do so - Ghandi said much the same long before I did. Christians are very judgemental which is odd because Jesus wasn’t.

He was extremely judgmental. And he commanded Christians to use “right judgment”.

Your judging Christians for judging

We all get judged.

What Jesus actually said was that we would be judged by the standard by which we judge others.

 

[Peccavi]

Jesus said, I quote, " Matthew 7 “Do not judge, or you too will be judged. 2 For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you.
Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother’s eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye? How can you say to your brother, ‘Let me take the speck out of your eye,’ when all the time there is a plank in your own eye? You hypocrite, first take the plank out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother’s eye.?"
Very clear what Jesus means.

 

[Robert_Bay]

MODERATOR NOTE

This thread is wandering. Please get back to the topic of the OP

 

[TMC]

Jesus said, I quote, " Matthew 7 “Do not judge, or you too will be judged. 2 For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you.
Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother’s eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye? How can you say to your brother, ‘Let me take the speck out of your eye,’ when all the time there is a plank in your own eye? You hypocrite, first take the plank out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother’s eye.?"
Very clear what Jesus means.

I would also refer you to the quote from Paul in my signature line.

 

[TMC]

To move back to the actual topic of the thread, I find the Cardinal’s statement tantalizing. 200 pages is long for an exhortation, seems to me. It may cover more ground than has been expected. I guess we will be seeing it for ourselves soon. I am hopeful.

 

[Joe_5859]

To move back to the actual topic of the thread, I find the Cardinal’s statement tantalizing. 200 pages is long for an exhortation, seems to me. It may cover more ground than has been expected. I guess we will be seeing it for ourselves soon. I am hopeful.

It depends on how many words are on a page, I guess. Lately, the Vatican website has been posting pdf files of the new papal documents. The one for Evangelii Gaudium (his only other apostolic exhortation thus far) is 224 pages. So it looks like this one will be around the same length.

I’d be surprised to see the document tomorrow. My guess is that it will be signed tomorrow and then publicly appear sometime in April. I’m looking forward to reading it. People have been speculating about it for several years already, so it will be nice to have the definitive fruit of the last two synods.

 

[celestialhost]

It is important to bear in mind that the document has been reviewed by the CDF.

If Cardinal Muller and the CDF tell the Holy Father that communion for the divorced and remarried is a red line that cannot be crossed, it’s difficult to imagine him telling them ‘Who cares?’

 

[TMC]

It is important to bear in mind that the document has been reviewed by the CDF.

If Cardinal Muller and the CDF tell the Holy Father that communion for the divorced and remarried is a red line that cannot be crossed, it’s difficult to imagine him telling them ‘Who cares?’

I don’t imagine him saying “who cares,” but he may say “I am the Pope, not you.” That said, it is unlikely (in my mind) that the Pope will straight up change the prohibition on communion for the remarried. He may say that the faithful can resort to the internal forum, in consultation with their pastor, however.

 

[Maximilan_Kolbe]

I for one am happy that we have men like Cardinal Walter Kasper in our Church. He gives me hope for the future. Too often I see Catholics expressing a hope in the past and despair for everything else. Fear and despair are incompatible with Christianity.

I agree that we are called to be hopeful, but one could just as easily argue that having a fear of staying rooted in the past is just as incompatible with Christianity. Not all things old are bad, and not all things new are good.

The fear works both ways. Many who seek changes in Church tradition or approach fear being rooted in the past, which is no healthier than those who fear any changes from what is past.

 

[deaconjohnO]

One example I am talking about is Cardinal Kaspers proposal to give Communion to the divorced and remarried. But thinking about it, that is more of an effort to dismantle the Eucharist although it has a double effect of dismantling Matrimony.

It would dismantle everything.

 

[JimG]

I’m divorced but not remarried. The divorce was not of my choosing. Would Jesus have punished me for anothers sin ?

Divorce in itself does not keep a Catholic from the sacraments. The problem arises if a divorced person remarries without having determined that the prior marriage was not valid. As for the final synod document, it may be that Cardinal Kaspar is trying to put his own spin on it, but we’ll have to see what the document actually says.

 

[ProdigalSun]

Interesting opinions but as Jesus said if you judge others expect to be judged. I fear you Christians do far too much judging of others which is why I became a Nazarene ( the earliest church led by James, brother of Jesus).

Well I see that you just judged others, about judging you. You really shouldn’t do that because in your Nazarene religion you should not be doing that apparently. I fear that you may be doing to much judging here so please refrain lest you be judged!

Peace to you

 

[Mongo]

Interesting opinions but as Jesus said if you judge others expect to be judged. I fear you Christians do far too much judging of others which is why I became a Nazarene ( the earliest church led by James, brother of Jesus).

James was a Christian; he was the bishop of Jerusalem. He didn’t start a church separate from any of the other apostles. The early Christians were often called Nazarenes because they followed Jesus of Nazareth.