Cardinal Lehman: "I can envision Women at the Altar"

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At my parish, we already have “women at the altar”, in a certain sense. Our Eucharistic ministers, mostly women here (EMHC - though they are hardly extraordinary any more), take charge after consecration. Often our older and more incapacitated priests go and sit down while the ladies “serve the meal”.
 
NeedsMercy said:
Wow. So…no women anywhere really want to serve God in a fashion other than becoming a nun? That’s painting with a pretty broad brush. I infer that, even if the Church did allow the ordination of women, you believe women would only do it for “power” and that women priests would not be “service-oriented”. Are you saying that women, in general, do not “focus exclusively on the things of this world and in no way demonstrate a mindfulness of eternal things”? 'cause there’s probably a lot of women in Heaven that would disagree with you.
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No, I think it woud be more accurate to say that women who insist on continuing to push for something impossible, after being told repeatedly that it is impossible, and who are willing to leave the Church (via, I believe, latae sententiae excommunication if they attempt to be ordained) in order to get what they want, do not primarily want to serve God.

If anyone (except you) has said on this thread that you have to be a nun to serve God as a woman, I missed it. Women serve Him all the time, as workers, wives, and mothers–see for example St. Gianna Molla.

If, in some alternate universe, it were not impossible for the Church to ordain women, the women who wanted to be ordained would be of a different sort. But a “call” that comes out of disobedience cannot be a true call to obedience, which is one of the things a priest must have–obedience to superiors if a religious priest, obedience to the bishop if a secular priest, and obedience to God and His Church for all priests.

–Jen
 
christofirst said:
At my parish, we already have “women at the altar”, in a certain sense. Our Eucharistic ministers, mostly women here (EMHC - though they are hardly extraordinary any more), take charge after consecration. Often our older and more incapacitated priests go and sit down while the ladies “serve the meal”.
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Good point. Once the communion rail was removed, there really is no barrier. EMHC, readers, cantors, servers. What else is he envisioning?
 
THIS:
revert_jen said:
No, I think it woud be more accurate to say that women who insist on continuing to push for something impossible, after being told repeatedly that it is impossible, and who are willing to leave the Church (via, I believe, latae sententiae excommunication if they attempt to be ordained) in order to get what they want, do not primarily want to serve God.
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👍

Here is a very appropriate sermon, in the context of Venerable Fulton Sheen, who in the 70’s saw first hand the errors of feminist thought leaking into the Church (a MUST WATCH) :

Venerable Fulton Sheen - The Blessed Virgin Mary

youtube.com/watch?v=TG5-RSevDBI#t=21m40s
What we see here, therefore is the beginning of the Church in which Christ now is the head of the Church, the heavenly bridegroom, the Blessed Mother is the beginning of the Church the new Eve and as many children came from Eve, so many children now are coming from Mary.
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And this is the reason why women cannot be priests:
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Because it is man who gives the seed…
Our Blessed Lord says: the word is the Seed.
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For example, I am giving you the word now. I am giving you the word that is the seed of life.
That is what Christ was doing.
And who is the blessed Mother, the Blessed Mother receives the seed, the woman receives the seed, nourishes it, fosters it, brings it to life, educates it, loves it.
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There is no question here, of inferiority or superiority. Let’s get it straight!
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It’s a differentiation of function!
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Man provides the seed. The woman receives it. And this originated at the cross.
And never, never call the Church an establishment. It’s the body of Christ, it’s his bride!
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  • Bishop Fulton Sheen
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When our priests speak with authority like in the above video, the questioners shut up, and doubts amongst the faithful dissipate and they’re affirmed stronger in the faith.

After seeing and hearing Fulton Sheen say it with authority and then reading Pope John Paul II’s authoritative statements, I cringe whenever I hear Catholics, to even certain priests on pulpits still ask the question.
 
ProVobis said:
Good point. Once the communion rail was removed, there really is no barrier. EMHC, readers, cantors, servers. What else is he envisioning?
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My parish which is run by Norbertine priests has communion rails. Although we do not have Extraordinary ministers of Holy Communion we still have readers, and cantors. I think you can still keep the communion rail and have both these two things I my parish has.

Second I think that women have a special place in the church just as Our Blessed Mother does. I don’t have a problem with Women Cantors, and readers, but I do not think they should be altar servers. This just be left to men as it is a potential vocation to the priesthood. I am an altar server for this very thing, my spiritual director a Norbertine priest asked me to as I feel called to the religious life, and as a priest.

Other than that let women be holy, let them lead their husbands, and let them be nuns.
 
revert_jen said:
No, I think it woud be more accurate to say that women who insist on continuing to push for something impossible, after being told repeatedly that it is impossible, and who are willing to leave the Church (via, I believe, latae sententiae excommunication if they attempt to be ordained) in order to get what they want, do not primarily want to serve God.

If anyone (except you) has said on this thread that you have to be a nun to serve God as a woman, I missed it. Women serve Him all the time, as workers, wives, and mothers–see for example St. Gianna Molla.

If, in some alternate universe, it were not impossible for the Church to ordain women, the women who wanted to be ordained would be of a different sort. But a “call” that comes out of disobedience cannot be a true call to obedience, which is one of the things a priest must have–obedience to superiors if a religious priest, obedience to the bishop if a secular priest, and obedience to God and His Church for all priests.

–Jen
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I agree 100%, Thank You!! God Bless, Memaw
 
CutlerB said:
Again, I think you are misinterpreting the comment. They are reporting what happened to them, which is not the same as an “unproven generalisation”. Thus “studies” are totally irrelevant to this comment.

As for authority, yes that is the bottom line. Then the question becomes: “What does ‘can’t’ mean?”. The Church has stated that this does not diminish a woman’s value or standing in the Church. This is due to the fact that the Church does not have the authority to do this, not because there’s something “wrong” with women.
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If I am misinterpreting those remarks so much, why doesn’t the poster himself answer my questions? To say that all women that want to be priests are driven by “power” is the exact same thing as saying that all priests are pedophiles. They’re opinions, not facts. Just the facts, ma’am.
 
christofirst said:
At my parish, we already have “women at the altar”, in a certain sense. Our Eucharistic ministers, mostly women here (EMHC - though they are hardly extraordinary any more), take charge after consecration. Often our older and more incapacitated priests go and sit down while the ladies “serve the meal”.
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There are those Catholics–right here on CAF–that would do away with female EMHCs and female altar servers also.
 
KP3243 said:
I swear I feel like I am one of a few women who are not egregiously offended that I cannot be a priest. Is it really hard to imitate Mary and bring people to Jesus and is that such an inferior job? NO WAY! I feel it is an honor to be given such a job. It seems this whole women priest issue is about power and not about love, does God ask people do big things and others to do small things, yes! The bigger picture is addressing what God is asking you to do and doing out of love.
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Perhaps you are not “egregiously offended” because you have not received a calling. To those females who have, the door is closed.
 
ProVobis said:
My problem with this is that we are still reading 1 Cor and we have women readers reading it. What’s wrong with that picture? (Rhetorical question.)

1 Corinthians 14:34
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Another “wow”. So because St. Paul had a problem with women, we all should?
 
Lapey said:
It’s not a matter of the Church allowing this or disallowing this, can’t you understand JPII’s words? “the Church has no authority to ordain women.” The Church cannot change this; it is not Her’s to change.
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What all of you seem to be missing is this: frankly, whether women are not “allowed” to be priests or whether the Church has no “authority” to ordain women is immaterial to me. What I am trying to get across is that people here are saying untoward things about women who seek to be priests and trying to pass their opinions off as “gospel”. Can’t you understand the words “mean-spirited”?
 
NeedsMercy said:
Another “wow”. So because St. Paul had a problem with women, we all should?
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Not the point. Now one can claim it is all “disciplinary” but nevertheless it’s in the Mass readings, or at least it was 10 years ago when a woman I was dating actually brought it to my attention. She wasn’t too happy about it either. I would use the expression “Awkward.”
 
NeedsMercy said:
Perhaps you are not “egregiously offended” because you have not received a calling. To those females who have, the door is closed.
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KP and others are correct in defending the teaching of the Church

If said female “feels a calling” and that prompts them to take up with the dissident view that harassed previous Vicar Pope John Paul II, then they haven’t discerned what the meaning of the priesthood is as well as the gifts one possesses as a son or daughter of Christ in the Church.
… We are baptized in a sense to all be imitators of Christ, as Priest, Prophets and Kings, the ’ calling ’ is probably misplaced vocation.

For that woman to insist they feel that calling to literally be a priest, this sentiment is no different than the couples who can’t conceive, knowing the teaching of the Church and desiring to go through with IVF anyway, because they may perceive a calling to be a parent.
It is no different than the mistrust of God, that Sarah and Abraham gave when they had Ishmael.

“Not my will, but your will be done oh Lord”
If one reflects on that and prevents oneself from persisting in disobedience or rejection, they would recognize it was not a calling of what they perceive to be from God but was a temptation of the devil all along.
Rather than taking the opportunity to die to oneself, they give into the ego and count themselves in opposition to the Vicar of Christ and the Magisterium.

Pope John Paul II said women priests were not in the mind of Christ. Pope francis said the door is closed. If women perceive those defending that position, as being offensive to their misplaced feelings, that is immaterial, because we don’t base our faith on feelings, nor should we excuse our decision to question or fall away on those individual feelings.
 
Q: In your view, when will there be women priests?
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A:** I don’t have gynophobia,** I can even envision women at the altar.
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This is proof of the crisis within the Church. How can the Cardinal assault Christ himself like that so openly?
Not that the Church has not had its history of bad bishops but the indifference that one is required when saying something like that.
It is no different than what enemies on the outside would accuse the Church of having.
 
NeedsMercy said:
Perhaps you are not “egregiously offended” because you have not received a calling. To those females who have, the door is closed.
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If Jesus had wanted women to become priests, he would have had his own Blessed Mother, or Mary Magdelane, or one of the other women become Apostles and receive ordination and set the precedent. But he didn’t, and it is sad to me that 2,000 years later some women believe that they know better and need to correct Jesus.

Men and only men can be priests, and women can serve in other beautiful and fulfilling ways that are and have always been part of God’s master plan. I don’t believe a woman can be “called” to the priesthood. Or not by God. God will not call a person to dissent, but the evil one will. The evil one loves this sort of division. I also think women who desire to be priests are hung up on their perception of priests having “power” rather than understanding that the priesthood is self-sacrificial.
 
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