Cardinal Martini says Catholic Church "200 years behind"

[seekerz]

There is nothing wrong with being frank when people are very wrong like this, and should know better. And if by “legalistic,” you mean “calling a spade a spade, and an intrinsic evil such as gay marriage exactly that: evil”, then yes, we are going to be legalistic, and there’s nothing wrong with that.

Would you call Jesus judgemental for calling the pharasees a “brood of vipers”? How about “a den of thieves”? How about driving the money changers out of the temple?

If you take a look at post #48, I defined my understanding of both concepts: legalism and being judgmental.

As for Jesus, He - unlike us - has every right to judge people.

 

[seekerz]

You don’t care for Archbishop Sheen’s remark --taken in the context he made it? Notice he doesn’t say unmerciful to the PERSON but to the error. Isn’t that a lot like 'hate the sin, love the sinner"? Hate is a pretty strong word but we are indeed supposed to hate sin, right? Shouldn’t we hate error? We shouldn’t like it, surely., . .we shouldn’t even tolerate it if by ‘tolerate’ you mean accept it as if there was just no chance to ever change it. . .right?

I just don’t get where the poster’s comment about the Archbishop’s quote was taken by you to automatically mean ‘being judgmental and legalistic’. . .maybe I missed a post or two?

You misunderstand. I’m have no problem with Archbishop Sheen’s remark - I have a problem with it being used to justify legalism and judgmental attitudes. Of course we have to weigh things, determine right from wrong and point out those distinctions. The ***attitude and manner ***with which we do it, is what I’m taking issue with.

 

[epan]

Outsiders, that is non-Catholics, sometimes have shared the Cardinal’s opinion that the Church has failed to adapt to a changing world as it should. I would not expect that opinion to matter much to Catholics. But it looks like the Cardinal was deeply interested in the welfare of the Church, and also highly respected within the Catholic community. So, certainly, his opinion should be considered carefully.

I wonder why the interview was released after his death? Was there any indication as to why? I can think of a few possible reasons, but prefer not to speculate.

What is the mechanism for change and growth of the organization? Every organization must adapt over time to the changing world, if it expects to survive. One of the remarkable things about the Catholic Church is its longevity to date.

 

[superamazingman]

You misunderstand. I’m have no problem with Archbishop Sheen’s remark - I have a problem with it being used to justify legalism and judgmental attitudes. Of course we have to weigh things, determine right from wrong and point out those distinctions. The ***attitude and manner ***with which we do it, is what I’m taking issue with.

You keep saying that you don’t like all this legalism. But at the same time, we do have rules and doctrines in the church for a reason. Christ called us not to obey the laws and ignore the other stuff, but he didn’t call us to altogether skip out on obeying the law. he was a perfect jew. It’s not an either/or. It’s a both/and. We need to obey the law (yes, be “legalistic” if you want to say it that way) AND love him (but hate his actions).

Would you tell the officer that pulled you over for speeding that he’s being judgemental and legalistic? Clearly, there’s a time and a place for these things, partularly when the one in question has done something wrong.

 

[sw85]

This reminds me of the advice given to the laity everywhere by Fr. Nicola Bux, concerning what to do in the event they are saddled with a treacherous bishop:

“St. Joseph is Patron of the Church. You must pray a lot to St. Joseph in this situation, that he either open the bishop’s eyes or he close them for good.”

St. Joseph, pray for us!

 

[JM3]

I haven’t seen anyone on here blaming the victims. I also haven’t seen anyone agreeing with the Father’s regretable statement.

I have agreed with Fr.'s statement from the beginning and said so, but the threads keep disappearing.

Nowhere in his statement did he say that victims were to be blamed. This was a spin of the media aimed against him and the Church.

 

[Havard]

You misunderstand. I’m have no problem with Archbishop Sheen’s remark - I have a problem with it being used to justify legalism and judgmental attitudes. Of course we have to weigh things, determine right from wrong and point out those distinctions. The ***attitude and manner ***with which we do it, is what I’m taking issue with.

Apologies if this question seems out of left field, but are you familiar with the “alignment” matrix (I think originally popularized by early role-playing games.) The one with varying combinations of Good, Evil, Lawful, Chaotic and Neutral?

 

[Tigg]

But it does not give US the license to act as judge and jury over our brothers and sisters. I’m tired of people using that incident over and over as an excuse for boorish behavior. “Well Jesus threw the money changers out, so I can call that person evil and I can tell them what miserable sinners they are and how they should run their lives”

Boorish behavior, unloving and judgmental, should we add narrow minded and intolerant to the list? You see, what Jesus really taught is that persons must be respected, which does not mean we are unloving if we don’t agree with their philosophies or twisted theology. In fact, the highest form of charity is to wish the very best for someone which is synonymous with living in the light of God’s truth. His Truth must never be allowed to be tainted……it belongs to God, as defined by the Church, not us.

 

[Seeker1961]

Boorish behavior, unloving and judgmental, should we add narrow minded and intolerant to the list? You see, what Jesus really taught is that persons must be respected, which does not mean we are unloving if we don’t agree with their philosophies or twisted theology. In fact, the highest form of charity is to wish the very best for someone which is synonymous with living in the light of God’s truth. His Truth must never be allowed to be tainted……it belongs to God, as defined by the Church, not us.

I think just about anyone can tell the difference between correcting someone in love and being boorish, unloving and judgmental. In fact, I think it is an act of charity to tell someone when their “loving corrections” cross the line into boorish behavior more likely to push someone away from the Church.