Cardinal Marx: Church should see positive aspects of homosexual relationships [CWN]

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JosieN said:
It is not the Catechism itself but the way it is interpreted that concerns me. It appears to me that we are headed toward the belief that enslavement to passion reduces culpability in that one’s will is weakened. If this is the case, then the sinner must strengthen their will with fasting, penance and prayer. Believing a sexual addiction (a weakness) may reduce ones culpability, is like denying it is a sin at all, so they may then sin freely without guilt. I think it is best left up to God to judge culpability, we must not assume anything that may not be true. Again, this is just my opinion.
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From what you have written across this thread, you demonstrate that you would greatly benefit from auditing an introductory course in moral theology.
 
Seamus_L said:
The article, which was written in German, is on Lifesite News and the writer is Simon Linder. I’m hesitant about posting a link due to comments that the German Bishops maybe heading for schism.
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Seamus have you read what the German bishops actually said (presumably in German) or are you simply relying on 3rd party paraphrasing (and translated at that) for your view that they advance homosexual marriage.
I ask because I find this unlikely but am willing to be informed?

I don’t understand your hesitancy given that nobody is actually in schism and even if they were there is no reason why such things cannot be discussed here - everything else on the Net is including SPX and worse.
 
Seamus_L said:
I think the Catholic Church in Germany really needs to clarify exactly where they stand on the issue, because after some very confusing statements by at least 3 Bishops along with last September’s front page article in Katholisch.de (the official news site of the Catholic Church in Germany) in defense of homosexual marriage by Simon Linder, alot of people are in suspense.
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You may be right, but note that Simon is a theology student, not a Bishop.

lifesitenews.com/opinion/germanys-bishops-just-published-an-apologia-for-gay-marriage-this-crosses-a

lifesitenews.com/news/popes-doctrine-chief-germanys-bishops-are-leading-the-church-into-schism

With some effort, the article by Simon Linder, titled “Love Counts”, can be found:
katholisch.de/aktuelles/aktuelle-artikel/die-liebe-zahlt

Perhaps a German speaker can extract some quotes from it to give the gist.

And as one of those who wrote a comment on the article said, it is strong on rhetoric and very light on theology.
 
I think it’s irrelevant who wrote the article, what’s disturbing is where it appeared. With that in mind along with recent statements by Cardinal Marx, previous comments from Archbishop Heiner Koch, “to portray homosexuality as a sin is hurtful” "the Church “needs a
different language when it comes to homosexuals . I know gay couples who
value reliability and commitment and live these in an exemplary manner.”, I think it has alot of people on both sides of the issue wonding where exactly this is headed.
 
Seamus_L said:
I think it’s irrelevant who wrote the article, what’s disturbing is where it appeared. With that in mind along with recent statements by Cardinal Marx, previous comments from Archbishop Heiner Koch, “to portray homosexuality as a sin is hurtful” "the Church “needs a
different language when it comes to homosexuals . I know gay couples who
value reliability and commitment and live these in an exemplary manner.”, I think it has alot of people on both sides of the issue wonding where exactly this is headed.
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Seamus you seem to seriously denigrate senior clergy of the German Catholic Church purely on the basis of them allegedly tolerating a number of articles pro and con various homosexual issues on a GBC website which you have somewhat what bluntly defined as “homosexual marriage.” Specifically you seem to assert they totally agree with a more extreme article by some unknown young theologian whose views I am not even sure you have read or understood but simply rely on the unproven views of news websites and individual senior clerics who take your personal view.
Please forgive me for not taking your unsubstantiated and tenuous linkage back to the German Bishops seriously. I believe respected senior clergy should be considered innocent until proven guilty…and that process would need quoting of their actual writings and a negative comment by the Pope somewhere along the line.

Anything else it seems to me is unworthy and an indulging of our own subjective takes rather than objective witness.
 
I don’t see how it’s seriously denigrating senior clergy in Germany to merely state that there are people wondering where there church is headed on the subject of same sex relationships. Has it become disrespectful to ask for clarifications on some issues ?
 
Seamus_L said:
I don’t see how it’s seriously denigrating senior clergy in Germany to merely state that there are people wondering where there church is headed on the subject of same sex relationships. Has it become disrespectful to ask for clarifications on some issues ?
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Here is something brief re: Koch. Is there anything exposing his ideas in more depth?
churchmilitant.com/news/article/pro-homosexual-appointed-archbishop-of-berlin

Does he say anywhere that he explicitly approves of same sex sexual relations? Or explain how he arrives at such a position. The news reporting is very brief.
 
Seamus_L said:
I think it’s irrelevant who wrote the article, what’s disturbing is where it appeared. With that in mind along with recent statements by Cardinal Marx, previous comments from Archbishop Heiner Koch, “to portray homosexuality as a sin is hurtful” "the Church “needs a
different language when it comes to homosexuals . I know gay couples who
value reliability and commitment and live these in an exemplary manner.”, I think it has alot of people on both sides of the issue wonding where exactly this is headed.
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Seamus,I went to the Katholische site. This article was for debate ( it was written un Sept 2015).
There is another article that comes out later explaining different user reactions.
So it was just open for debate. That is all
In the article that follows this is further explained.

katolisch.de/aktuelles/aktuelle-artikel/krude-thesen-oder-schlussiger-artikel
 
Seamus_L said:
I don’t see how it’s seriously denigrating senior clergy in Germany to merely state that there are people wondering where there church is headed on the subject of same sex relationships. Has it become disrespectful to ask for clarifications on some issues ?
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Here is what you wrote:
"I think the Catholic Church in Germany really needs to clarify exactly where they stand…after some very confusing statements by at least 3 Bishops… "

I suggest that you have not yet aquainted yourself with what they have actually said.
You are relying primarily on the writings of intermediary parties of no known repute (ie .
Simon Linder and an article (in German?) on Kaotholisch.De it seems you haven’t directly read).

So it really seems to be Simon Linder you are primariy needing to seek clarification from.

"a lot of people are in suspense."
You may well be right that a lot of people are - the same holds for Pope Francis as well.

The point is whether such suspense is justified on the grounds you have provided.
I say no because you have allowed yourself to become a pawn of subjective views and third party agendas when the primary reaction of a loyal Catholic, as previously suggested, is to reserve judgement and consider our leading clergy loyal rather than material heretics.

Especially in the case of Cardinal Marx and Pope Francis.
 
The thing is also that at a certain age,when there is more time, the News can cause much anxiety and it would be better for the health to be aware of that.
There are little nice surprises too ,the same site had an article which referred to Catholic families and growing vocations and interest in vocations somewhere near Viena.
And it does help to go to sites that have handcraft,or hobbies that do make us feel interesed and happy .
Code: 
It is good to remember God came foward with just one man from the desert: John the Baptist.
If it about pawns,Kings and chess: God wins. 🙂
 
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