Cardinal McCarrick & King Abdullah

[JSmitty2005]

Cardinal McCarrick had some questionable remarks (to put it lightly!) at Catholic University to King Abdullah II of Jordan on Sept. 13, 2005. Here, check it out for yourself:
freerepublic.com/focus/f-religion/1486295/posts
What do you think about that? Is that considered heresy? I know that the Arabic word for God is ‘Allah’ and that Arab Christians use the word, but McCarrick obviously didn’t mean to simply say ‘God.’ Isn’t this appraisal of “the great world of Islam” promoting indifferentism? I’m sure there were many saints and martyrs rolling over in their tombs when they heard that! (just like they were when JPII kissed the Koran!)

Image removed by moderator as inappropriate

 

[snowman10]

I have to admit I honestly don’t think there was an acceptable reason for the Cardinal’s actions. And as much as I think JP2, rest his soul, was a great man, I still don’t get the Koran kissing incident. It makes me have a lot of thoughts and questions. Anybody wanna try to justify JP2’s actions cuz the more I think of it the more I become angry over it. But he just could’ve had a lapse in better judgement.

dxu

 

[thistle]

JSmitty2005:

Cardinal McCarrick had some questionable remarks (to put it lightly!) at Catholic University to King Abdullah II of Jordan on Sept. 13, 2005. Here, check it out for yourself:
freerepublic.com/focus/f-religion/1486295/posts
What do you think about that? Is that considered heresy? I know that the Arabic word for God is ‘Allah’ and that Arab Christians use the word, but McCarrick obviously didn’t mean to simply say ‘God.’ Isn’t this appraisal of “the great world of Islam” promoting indifferentism? I’m sure there were many saints and martyrs rolling over in their tombs when they heard that! (just like they were when JPII kissed the Koran!)

Image removed by moderator as inappropriate

I firmly believe Islam is a false religion and that the way to salvation is through the Catholic Church to Christ but you have to be careful with your remarks.
How do you know what the Cardinal meant by the use of the word Allah? Did you ask him directly or are you saying that you know the minds of men. I thought only God knew that!

 

[JSmitty2005]

thistle:

I firmly believe Islam is a false religion and that the way to salvation is through the Catholic Church to Christ but you have to be careful with your remarks.
How do you know what the Cardinal meant by the use of the word Allah? Did you ask him directly or are you saying that you know the minds of men. I thought only God knew that!

I suppose that I may be making a slight assumption, but I think that if you read what he said, you would come to the same conclusion.

 

[JSmitty2005]

snowman10:

I have to admit I honestly don’t think there was an acceptable reason for the Cardinal’s actions. And as much as I think JP2, rest his soul, was a great man, I still don’t get the Koran kissing incident. It makes me have a lot of thoughts and questions. Anybody wanna try to justify JP2’s actions cuz the more I think of it the more I become angry over it. But he just could’ve had a lapse in better judgement.

dxu

The only justification for JP2’s actions that I’ve heard is that the Arab custom when receiving a gift is to kiss it. I guess that he was just trying to show respect. Maybe that will give you some rest, it has for me a little. We must also remember that popes are people and sinners too. It’s not like the Church teaches that the pope’s actions are infallible. Nonetheless, this was obviously a regrettable event

 

[JSmitty2005]

I just thought of something else. John Paul II wouldn’t have been the first pope to deny Christ, remember Peter? Anyways, we’re off on a little tangent here. I originally wanted this to be about Cardinal McCarrick secretly being a Unitarian Haha! Just kidding, but what he said definately makes you wonder.

 

[JSmitty2005]

Another point that I thought of is the fact that Christ told us to ‘do as they say, not as they do.’ It may be a little harsh to compare JPII to a pharisee, but I think it’s a good point. Popes are sinners too and the Church has always taught that.

 

[otm]

It might help the conversation if one were to read the actual documents of Vatican 2; and in particular thos reflecting on other religions.

 

[Guar_Fan]

JSmitty2005:

I know that the Arabic word for God is ‘Allah’ and that Arab Christians use the word, but McCarrick obviously didn’t mean to simply say ‘God.’

Actually, that is exactly the impression I got - that Cardinal McCarrick was being polite by using the Arabic word for God.

I think this is commendable and in the spirit of building bridges between Islam and Christianity.

 

[JSmitty2005]

Guar Fan:

Actually, that is exactly the impression I got - that Cardinal McCarrick was being polite by using the Arabic word for God.

I think this is commendable and in the spirit of building bridges between Islam and Christianity.

He could have been polite just by being polite. He did not have to invoke the Muslim ‘Allah.’ Yes I know that the Church teaches that we both worship the one true God even though they have a flawed understanding of him. But it seems like McCarrick has a flawed understanding of him as well. I found this statement posted in another thread and I totally agree: “For one thing, it helps to define in harsh, clear light where everyone stands, rather than leaving their real positions obscured by vague politeness.” There is no reason to be polite in order to maintain the liberal dogmas of ‘diversity’ and ‘tolerance.’ Christ was about TRUTH. He is TRUTH. Furthermore, what in the world is commendable about building bridges between Islam and Christianity?! I smell indifferentism/relativism and you know what the pope said about that.

 

[JSmitty2005]

If all he meant by ‘Allah’ was simply ‘God’ then why did he say this: “In the name of Allah, the merciful and compassionate God, we pray. Amen.”? That would be redundant. He could have simply said ‘in the name of God’ or, although less preferable, ‘in the name of Allah.’ Why the need to repeat? It was simply to appease these pagans and to avoid the truth, and remember what Pope St. Felix III said: “Not to oppose error is to approve it; and not to defend truth is to suppress it.” I can’t imagine that Abdullah, or any other Muslim for that matter, would have prayed to the Father or Jesus or the Trinity in general, so why do we bend over backwards trying to ‘be nice.’ Statements like his blur the line of Truth and could lead some to question their faith. I mean, what kind of example is this guy setting, he’s supposed to be a CARDINAL!? Why can’t you people just recognize that this interfaith dialogue has gone too far? Just exactly what is ‘dialogue’? Where is it supposed to get us? Unless it is to lead to conversions, then it is a waste of time. I know that you’re thinking that ‘dialogue’ will lead to peace, but it hasn’t for the past 1400 years. Islam is not a peaceful religion, and if you believe it is, then the media has got you fooled and you don’t know your history.

 

[cathgal]

I always thought Cardinal McCarrick is weak and has no courage in proclaiming the truth. He believes in giving communion to pro-abort politicians. Yeah, another disappointing bishop :nope: .

 

[JSmitty2005]

cathgal:

another disappointing bishop :nope: .

He doesn’t even deserve to be called a bishop.

PS - your signature is very fitting for this thread, cathgal

 

[JSmitty2005]

Guar Fan:

Cardinal McCarrick was being polite by using the Arabic word for God.

“…souls cannot be perfectly united in charity unless minds agree in faith…” From Pope Leo XIII’s Satis Cognitum (29 June 1896)

 

[JSmitty2005]

“And so Hilary: ‘Christ teaching from the ship signifies that those who are outside the Church can never grasp the divine teaching; for the ship typifies the Church where the word of life is deposited and preached. Those who are outside are like sterile and worthless sand: they cannot comprehend’.”

Pope Leo XIII quotes St. Hilary in his Satis Cognitum (29 June 1896)

 

[Brad]

thistle:

I firmly believe Islam is a false religion and that the way to salvation is through the Catholic Church to Christ but you have to be careful with your remarks.
How do you know what the Cardinal meant by the use of the word Allah? Did you ask him directly or are you saying that you know the minds of men. I thought only God knew that!

Allah is not God. Islam is a Christian heresy. Islam means submission. Christianity means Christ, also known as Love and Truth.

McCarrick’s syncretism is appalling.

 

[bones_IV]

Unfortunately the liberal left choses to ignore the connections between the Islamic religion and terrorism. Rabbi Dalin points out that 5:82 of the Koran says that the Jews are the enemy of Islam. I’m serious I really did read this! Just look at Mohammad when he expelled the Jewish communities out of Medina in 622 A.D. Rabbi Says “Contemporary Islamic anti-semetic speakers and publications echo Muhammad’s teaching in the Koran (5:82) that the Jews are the greatest enemies of mankind.” (p. 127, the myth of Hilter’s Pope.) Other European leaders have done a poor job in condemning the resurgent Mulsim anti-semetism that is part of the “Islamization of Europe.” Even Palestinian journalist Raymonda Hawa- Tawil (it just so happens that the daugher of Raymonda is Souha Yassir Arafat’s wife) attacked the ‘racism of the Jews in France’ and the ‘influence of the Jewish lobby.’ During 2002 and 2003 the anti-semetic attacks escallated. Including an incident where a mulsim slit the throat of a Jewish disc jockey and mutilated his face.’ He returned to his apartment and said ‘I killed my Jew. I will go to heaven.’ Amongst the wilderness of the Islam-inspired French anti-semetism, the Papacy has been the only one to condemn Europe’s new anti-semetic, post-Christian left, while other leaders and intellectuals-- politicians, journalists, and leftist religious activists alike-- chose to remain silent.

 

[JSmitty2005]

JSmitty2005:

I just thought of something else. John Paul II wouldn’t have been the first pope to deny Christ, remember Peter? Anyways, we’re off on a little tangent here. I originally wanted this to be about Cardinal McCarrick secretly being a Unitarian Haha! Just kidding, but what he said definately makes you wonder.

I received a complaint about my comment that “John Paul II wouldn’t have been the first pope to deny Christ.” First of all, that’s taken out of context. The very next thing that I said was, “remember Peter?” I was merely trying to make the point that if the great pope John Paul II did deny Christ by kissing the Koran (which I never explicity said he did), then I still trust in the Church. Popes make mistakes too. Peter did by denying Christ 3 times. Sorry for the confusion or if I offended anyone. Don’t get me wrong, I loved JP2, and I think he should be canonized ASAP, but I do believe that he was wrong for kissing a pagan book.

 

[Tristan_daCunha]

JSmitty2005:

. Yes I know that the Church teaches that we both worship the one true God even though they have a flawed understanding of him.

Indeed! Which is why I find the uncharitable comments towards adherents of other religions so bewildering.

There is no reason to be polite in order to maintain the liberal dogmas of ‘diversity’ and ‘tolerance.’ Christ was about TRUTH. He is TRUTH.

Yes, we know that when we follow Christ we follow Truth. And what did Christ command us to do? “You shall love the Lord, your God, with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your mind. This is the greatest and the first commandment. The second is like it: You shall love your neighbor as yourself. The whole law and the prophets depend on these two commandments.” Matt 22:37-40

Being polite and showing loving-kindness towards even those who are not like us is part of loving our neighbor.

Furthermore, what in the world is commendable about building bridges between Islam and Christianity?!

Again, Jesus tells us that this is what we must do. Muslims are sincerely seeking God - they are our brothers.

 

[bekalc]

Just going to speak up here. I attended an Evangelical seminary, and learned a lot about Islam there, and at my state school. I actaully know people who are missionaries to Muslim countries.

Allah is the Arabic word for God. Arab Christians were referring to God as “Allah” before Islam came into existence. In the Hebrew Text, God took many names of the pagan gods too. For example the name EL. Why because the name for God is the only way people can understand who God is? Try explaining who God is without using a term people can understand. Most missionaries normally have to pick a common term for God and use it to explain who God is.

In the case of Muslims, when they refer to Allah: they truly think they are referring to the God of Abraham, Isaiac, and Jacob. Now, I think they definetly have a flawed understanding of this God. Just as they think we have a flawed understanding of God (Trinity) but referring to God as Allah makes sense for them. The Church I grew up in now has Arabic services, and they refer to God there as Allah, for the reasons I mentioned earlier.

I’m pretty sure are English word for God, probably came from some pagan word as well, so I think people need to remember that too.

Now, I definetly think Muslims need to be evangelized but I will sya this don’t ever tell Muslims that Allah is not God.