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TCEL
Guest
Well, that’s above my pay grade right now. (I’m just trying to figure out what Math curriculum to use for home-school.) And I could be wrong. It’s only an intuition.
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graciew
Guest
It is not an obligation,we do not go about twisting anybody’s arms …It is an invitation…1034 Jesus often speaks of “Gehenna” of “the unquenchable fire” reserved for those who to the end of their lives refuse to believe and be converted, where both soul and body can be lost. 612 Jesus solemnly proclaims that he "will send his angels, and they will gather . . . all evil doers, and throw them into the furnace of fire,"613 and that he will pronounce the condemnation: "Depart from me, you cursed, into the eternal fire!"614
1035 The teaching of the Church affirms the existence of hell and its eternity. Immediately after death the souls of those who die in a state of mortal sin descend into hell, where they suffer the punishments of hell, "eternal fire."615 The chief punishment of hell is eternal separation from God, in whom alone man can possess the life and happiness for which he was created and for which he longs.
Catechism of the Catholic Church
vatican.va/archive/ENG0015/_P2O.HTM
And Mr Newton was referring to an invitation to seek spiritual direction when necessary,and it isn t necessary that the sky is falling on our head to ask for help in our lives.
Jesus is in the boat with us.
" Be still,and know that I am God". Don’t freak out…when possible…
Go to your priest,and walk the walk in trust. Jesus I trust in You. If you want,that is.
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philipl
Guest
But here is the fact. Will people having sex outside of marriage be allowed to go to communion and it not be sinful? The answer is No, Yes, and Maybe. No matter how you look at it all these different answers are acceptable.
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JPUSC
Guest
The obligation of the Decalogue
2072 Since they express man’s fundamental duties towards God and towards his neighbor, the Ten Commandments reveal, in their primordial content, grave obligations. They are fundamentally immutable, and they oblige always and everywhere. No one can dispense from them. The Ten Commandments are engraved by God in the human heart.
2073 Obedience to the Commandments also implies obligations in matter which is, in itself, light. Thus abusive language is forbidden by the fifth commandment, but would be a grave offense only as a result of circumstances or the offender’s intention.
Catechism of the Catholic Church
vatican.va/archive/ccc_css/archive/catechism/p3s2.htm#2072
2364 The married couple forms "the intimate partnership of life and love established by the Creator and governed by his laws; it is rooted in the conjugal covenant, that is, in their irrevocable personal consent."147 Both give themselves definitively and totally to one another. They are no longer two; from now on they form one flesh. The covenant they freely contracted imposes on the spouses the obligation to preserve it as unique and indissoluble.148 "What therefore God has joined together, let not man put asunder."149
IV. OFFENSES AGAINST THE DIGNITY OF MARRIAGE
Adultery
2380 Adultery refers to marital infidelity. When two partners, of whom at least one is married to another party, have sexual relations - even transient ones - they commit adultery. Christ condemns even adultery of mere desire.171 The sixth commandment and the New Testament forbid adultery absolutely.172 The prophets denounce the gravity of adultery; they see it as an image of the sin of idolatry.173
2381 Adultery is an injustice. He who commits adultery fails in his commitment. He does injury to the sign of the covenant which the marriage bond is, transgresses the rights of the other spouse, and undermines the institution of marriage by breaking the contract on which it is based. He compromises the good of human generation and the welfare of children who need their parents’ stable union.
Divorce
2382 The Lord Jesus insisted on the original intention of the Creator who willed that marriage be indissoluble.174 He abrogates the accommodations that had slipped into the old Law.175
Between the baptized, "a ratified and consummated marriage cannot be dissolved by any human power or for any reason other than death."176
2383 The separation of spouses while maintaining the marriage bond can be legitimate in certain cases provided for by canon law.177
If civil divorce remains the only possible way of ensuring certain legal rights, the care of the children, or the protection of inheritance, it can be tolerated and does not constitute a moral offense.
2384 Divorce is a grave offense against the natural law. It claims to break the contract, to which the spouses freely consented, to live with each other till death. Divorce does injury to the covenant of salvation, of which sacramental marriage is the sign. Contracting a new union, even if it is recognized by civil law, adds to the gravity of the rupture: the remarried spouse is then in a situation of public and permanent adultery:
If a husband, separated from his wife, approaches another woman, he is an adulterer because he makes that woman commit adultery, and the woman who lives with him is an adulteress, because she has drawn another’s husband to herself.178
2385 Divorce is immoral also because it introduces disorder into the family and into society. This disorder brings grave harm to the deserted spouse, to children traumatized by the separation of their parents and often torn between them, and because of its contagious effect which makes it truly a plague on society.
2386 It can happen that one of the spouses is the innocent victim of a divorce decreed by civil law; this spouse therefore has not contravened the moral law. There is a considerable difference between a spouse who has sincerely tried to be faithful to the sacrament of marriage and is unjustly abandoned, and one who through his own grave fault destroys a canonically valid marriage.179
Catechism of the Catholic Church
vatican.va/archive/ccc_css/archive/catechism/p3s2c2a6.htm#2364
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Don_Ruggero
Guest
Well, here is a fact: when a person or a couple come to me for pastoral accompaniment in an issue touching upon this, they will be pastorally accompanied by me, according to Amoris Laetitia and the guidelines that have been put in place. And my discussions are only between me and them. Not with others.
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Louie1983
Guest
January 10, 2017
The Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith (CDF) raised a number of questions about Amoris Laetitia, and suggested several corrections, before the papal document was published, according to a new report in the National Catholic Register.
Quoting a “senior official” at the Vatican, reporter Edward Pentin says that the CDF “had submitted many, many corrections, and not one of the corrections was accepted.” Last year another veteran Vatican reporter, Jean-Marie Guénois of Le Figaro, had reported that the CDF submitted 20 pages of suggested corrections before the apostolic exhortation was made public.
The reports of CDF concerns about the papal document contrast with the recent statement made by Cardinal Gerhard Müller, the prefect of the dicastery, who said that Amoris Laetitia does not require clarification and poses “no danger to the faith.”
catholicculture.org/news/headlines/index.cfm?storyid=30423
The Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith (CDF) raised a number of questions about Amoris Laetitia, and suggested several corrections, before the papal document was published, according to a new report in the National Catholic Register.
Quoting a “senior official” at the Vatican, reporter Edward Pentin says that the CDF “had submitted many, many corrections, and not one of the corrections was accepted.” Last year another veteran Vatican reporter, Jean-Marie Guénois of Le Figaro, had reported that the CDF submitted 20 pages of suggested corrections before the apostolic exhortation was made public.
The reports of CDF concerns about the papal document contrast with the recent statement made by Cardinal Gerhard Müller, the prefect of the dicastery, who said that Amoris Laetitia does not require clarification and poses “no danger to the faith.”
catholicculture.org/news/headlines/index.cfm?storyid=30423
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pnewton
Guest
If you read more than the one post, you will note that I was speaking of living people, not the deceased. The discussion is not on Hell or eternity.
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pnewton
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pnewton
Guest
You can quote the Catechism until the cows come home, or any other straw man you want to beat the stuffing out of. However, when you point to the decalogue, it bears remembering that there was a provision in it for a writ of divorce that God approved for the people of Israel.
Just like people who quote “thou shall not kill” to argue against the capital punishment neglect the part of the law that allowed capital punishment, so too we need to consider all the data when dealing with adultery and seeking simplistic answers and rigid categories.
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philipl
Guest
Like I said, Yes, No, and Maybe. You can do what you think is pastorally right. But the end God will decide, Now I know the new belief in the church is that no one gets to judge another’s actions. But once the church was the moral center of the world. Every Catholic knew what was moral and immoral, what was right and wrong. That is no longer the case, this vagueness creates a situation that anyone can decide their actions a completely in line with the church.
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FollowChrist34
Guest
Yes, and where does it stop? If this yes or no argument stands for CDR, why not literally everything else? Does anyone seriously believe this will end here?
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philipl
Guest
That’s correct, what is moral or immoral will be what a person believes it to be.
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pnewton
Guest
Moral culpability is not vagueness. It is a real part of Catholic moral doctrine, as is the teaching on conscience. Likewise, Catholic moral teaching on culpability and conscience is not moral relativism.
If everyone deems themselves as intelligent enough to offer an informed critiques on Amoris Laetitia, why do I see so much doubt in the ability of the priesthood to intelligently apply Catholic moral teaching, in according to their training and office, in a way that also preserves moral truth? Come on, I know the stories are coming from the spiritual voyeur about Fr. Doe who let this person do that, but can’t we trust that most of the priest are capable men?
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JPUSC
Guest
Jesus then answers, “Because of your hardness of heart Moses permitted you to divorce your wives; but from the beginning it has not been this way. And I say to you, whoever divorces his wife, except for immorality, and marries another woman commits adultery” (Matthew 19:7-9).
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edwayne
Guest
I don’t believe we have to wait until all the bishop’s conferences implement Amoris Laetitia to see the trend of disunity. You have individual bishops, such as Bishop McElroy saying one thing but Bishop Olmsted and Archbishop Chaput taking an opposite position. You have entire bishop conferences, such as Polish versus German taking opposing interpretations. This will continue unchecked unless a clear and decisive clarification of yea of nea is given.
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Thomas_White
Guest
Well, having read through the comments of the thread, this thought came to mind: Quite a few intelligent people cannot agree about AL, with sentiments ranging from yes to no to maybe and with that elephant still in the room. It does not seem there is more to say, except perhaps there is something about AL–ambiguity could it be?–that seems to defy all attempts at explanation.
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JimG
Guest
So, then, the matter is settled.
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JPUSC
Guest
Indeed, the matter is settled.
Pope Francis stated in the letter that “there is no other interpretation” of Amoris Laetitia other than that contained in the document drafted by the bishops of Buenos Aires, a text which, according to the Osservatore Romano report, leaves open the possibility in some cases of the acceptance of sexually-active unmarried couples receiving the Holy Eucharist.
aleteia.org/2016/09/13/vatican-confirms-pope-francis-letter-to-argentine-bishops-on-amoris-laetitia-is-authentic
He was asked whether there were any real new possibilities for access to the sacraments that did not exist prior to the publication of the “Amoris Laetitia” encyclical. “I could say “yes” and leave it at that”, Francis had replied. “But that would be too brief a response. I recommend that all of you read the presentation made by Cardinal Schönborn, a great theologian.”
…the document issued by the bishops of Buenos Aires “is very good and fully captures the meaning of chapter VIII of the ‘Amoris Laetitia’. There are no other interpretations. I am sure it will do much good”.
lastampa.it/2016/09/12/vaticaninsider/eng/the-vatican/pope-francis-on-the-correct-interpretation-of-the-amoris-laetitia-3BCM11NC8042x26J6mQfeP/pagina.html
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JimG
Guest
But Cardinal Muller is the prefect of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith (CDF), and he says that there is no permission granted for divorced and remarried Catholics to receive communion.
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JPUSC
Guest
He is under the authority of the Pope whose pronouncements supersede his.
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