Cardinal Ouellet responds to Archbishop Vigano's accusations against the Holy See

[CilladeRoma]

poor judgement.

That is causing otherwise good and faithful Catholics to have serious doubts about our Holy Father.
And is breeding division, especially in the US along political lines- conservative vs. liberal.
The AB is way too smart to think that what he did is only “poor judgement”.

 

[pnewton]

The AB is way too smart to think that what he did is only “poor judgement”.

I do not know him well enough for such condemnation. I will leave that to God and assume the most charitable stance.

 

[Leferdion]

@pnewton well said!! I hope those bashing against Pope Francis do same, leave Judgement to God and assume the most charitable stance. Unfortunately it is not the case. So much of the loopholes in Vigano’s letters have been intentionally over looked by those who are anti-Francis and instead overt hatred has been directed towards the pope mainly based on biases.

 

[kyrie03]

“Small segment of Church with a very negative view of Pope Francis”, “bias”, “rely(ing) on reporters of fake news”, “breed(ers of) division along political lines- conservative vs. liberal”, “bashing Pope Francis”"……sorry, but these personal judgments are ad hominum attacks that obfuscate from real issues.

No longer can the faithful look to those in authority and be taught, unambiguously, all the truths of the Catholic faith. Trust has disappeared.

The fault lies in our own disobedience and disrespect. We disobey the Church’s perennial teachings on marriage and contraception. We are not faithful to the duties of our state in life. We show little reverence to Almighty God made present in the Sacred Species. We rebel against the monuments of tradition, preferring novel ideas to those handed down since the time of Christ and developed organically through the ages. This isn’t a blame game. We get exactly what we deserve!

May we use this time of trial and temptation to be purified of our attachments to erroneous ideas by uniting our sufferings with those of Christ-crucified -in reparation and for the sanctification of all of us poor, miserable sinners!

 

[poche]

One other problem in all of this are the seminarians who compromised their own priesthood.

 

[pnewton]

No longer can the faithful look to those in authority and be taught, unambiguously, all the truths of the Catholic faith.

You are not the first to say this about the Catholic Church.

I am more afraid of my own heart than of the pope and all his cardinals. I have within me the great pope, Self. - Martin Luther

“Lord, to whom shall we go? You have the words of eternal life." St Peter

One other problem in all of this are the seminarians who compromised their own priesthood.

While they were adults, power structures can put great pressure on other adults, which is why these incidents are not sexual assault, but sexual harassment. Both are evil acts, but if you see someone refer to the recent scandal as sexual assault, it is a good clue to disregard the reasoning. If this critical fact is exaggerated, then conclusions are worthless.

 

[kyrie03]

No longer can the faithful look to those in authority and be taught, unambiguously, all the truths of the Catholic faith.

Exactly what are you suggesting with the quote?

Those who can no longer trust the hierarchy to teach them sound doctrine are like Martin Luther? They trust their own conscience as opposed to teachings of the pope?

 

[kyrie03]

One other problem in all of this are the seminarians who compromised their own priesthood.

Is it assault or harassment if a minor is pressured into an immoral relationship?

Wasn’t Cd McCarrick accused of sexual harassment of multiple seminarians as well as grooming at least 2 minors. Whether he molested them before or after they turned 18 makes exactly what critical difference?

If someone is pressured into immoral activity and another labels it as assault instead of harassment, they exaggerate and their conclusions are worthless?

 

[pnewton]

Is it assault or harassment if a minor is pressured into an immoral relationship?

A minor is a victim of sexual assault (or indecency). For an adult, it is sexual harassment.

If someone is pressured into immoral activity and another labels it as assault instead of harassment, they exaggerate and their conclusions are worthless?

Yes, at least to me. I prefer factual information to gossip and agenda blogs.

 

[kyrie03]

Is it harassment or assault if someone is groomed over several years (or even months) and on his 18th birthday, he is molested? Is it agenda-driven gossip if someone calls it assault instead of harassment?

Should the Church treat abusers with authority over adults differently than abusers of minors (other than notifying the state as is required with minors)?

 

[commenter]

is breeding division, especially in the US along political lines- conservative vs. liberal.

That fracture line didn’t begin in 2013 but sure has gotten a lot worse since then.

Did the Pope label the Archbishop of Philadelphia as the Right Winger? So far, no comment.

 

[poche]

Yes, but these problems are not just limited to the Church or to a particular cardinal. They are everywhere, in the schools, sports, the workplace. These seminarians are men who are not vulnerable adults or children. they are putting themselves up to be our spiritual guides. I would hope that "do what you have to do’ or “do whatever it takes” is not the advice that a young person is going to receive from the priest who is relying on his own experience when that young person comes to him with that problem with a coach or a teacher or some other authority figure.

 

[pnewton]

Is it harassment or assault if someone is groomed over several years (or even months) and on his 18th birthday, he is molested? Is it agenda-driven gossip if someone calls it assault instead of harassment?

I answered this question already. It is sexual harassment if it is an adult.

 

[Crusader13]

After reading his letter I’m no less inclined to believe AB Vigano then before. To me this letter was focused on Vigano’s divisiveness and how it would hurt those who were named and how as a member of the Clergy, Vigano needs to be more concerned with protecting the Church and it’s image in the eyes of the world.

It also confirmed how woefully inadequate the Bishops and Cardinals have been in dealing with accusations and abuse. For me this letter has only reinforced the need for many of these men to be removed from their positions and forced to leave the Church.

 

[graciew]

how woefully inadequate the Bishops and Cardinals have been in dealing with accusations and abuse

From woefully inadequate to cover up there is a difference. And it has to be tread carefully case by case

 

[kyrie03]

Christ prayed that His Church would be one. He foresaw the divisions of heresy, schism, apostasy, unbelief, and confusion that would tear souls away from the Mystical Body of the One True Church for which He gave His very life. Adherence to the truth of the doctrines He commissioned His apostles and their successors to hand on to future generations unite, not divide.

Divisiveness arises when the truth is adulterated or twisted. Quid est veritas?

Although Cd Oulette accuses Ab Vigano of damaging the reputation of the hierarchy and breaking communion with the Holy See, he does not disprove any of the allegations. He seems to prioritize obedience to the Holy See above the truth about doctrinal confusion arising from Amoris Laetitia and recent changes to the catechism regarding the death penalty, as well as the truth about McCarrick’s rise in prominence and his rehabilitation in spite of various settlements and credible accusations.

What is REALY dividing us is the lack of clear teaching and adherence to the teaching. Confirm your flock in the truth as did Pope Leo X when faced with some of the same errors at time of Martin Luther!
https://www.ewtn.com/library/papaldoc/l10exdom.htm

 

[Crusader13]

From woefully inadequate to cover up there is a difference. And it has to be tread carefully case by case

Absolutely. I think there are many who have yet to be named, but are no less culpable in covering up these abuses. And then there are those like Wuerl who think that payouts and internal investigations are the way to go and even others like Cupich who choose to completely ignore the problem and believe the church needs to focus on climate change!

The latter are the men who are woefully inadequate to lead and shepard our flock. These men need to go ASAP!

 

[pnewton]

Adherence to the truth of the doctrines He commissioned His apostles and their successors to hand on to future generations unite, not divide.

He more specifically commissioned one apostle.

When they had finished eating, Jesus said to Simon Peter, “Simon son of John, do you love me more than these?”

“Yes, Lord,” he said, “you know that I love you.”

Jesus said, “Feed my lambs.”

Again Jesus said, “Simon son of John, do you love me?”

He answered, “Yes, Lord, you know that I love you.”

Jesus said, “Take care of my sheep.”

The third time he said to him, “Simon son of John, do you love me?”

Peter was hurt because Jesus asked him the third time, “Do you love me?” He said, “Lord, you know all things; you know that I love you.”

Jesus said, “Feed my sheep. Very truly I tell you, when you were younger you dressed yourself and went where you wanted; but when you are old you will stretch out your hands, and someone else will dress you and lead you where you do not want to go.” Jesus said this to indicate the kind of death by which Peter would glorify God. Then he said to him, “Follow me!”

“Where Peter is, there is the Church. Where the Church is, there is Jesus Christ. Where Jesus Christ is, there is eternal salvation.” St Ambrose

 

[Cathoholic]

How could you, Archbishop Vigano?​

By Phil Lawler (bio - articles - email) | Oct 11, 2018

“How can you celebrate Mass,” Cardinal Ouellet angrily demands of Archbishop Viganò, “and mention the pope’s name in the Eucharistic Prayer?”

An excellent question. . . .

. . . Think of the faithful whose priests, over, say, the last 30 years, have invited them to pray for John Paul our pope, or for Benedict our pope …

• “… and for Rembert our bishop”—who used $450,000 of his flock’s contributions to buy the silence of his partner in sodomy.
• “… and for Lawrence our bishop”—who throttled a male prostitute who was in the act of fellating him.
• “… and for Thomas our bishop”—who struck a pedestrian with his Buick and drove off leaving him to die.
• “… and for Patrick our bishop”—who outfitted his catamite with a beeper to summon him for sex.
• “… and for Theodore our bishop”—who slept with priests and seminarians and fondled boys.
• “… and for Robert our bishop”—who gave $30 million in no-bid construction contracts to a tri-athlete and “special friend” and paid out $100,000 in another settlement with an unhappy (male) roommate.
• “… and for Donald our bishop”—who turned up at the hospital beaten to a pulp and claimed he fell down the stairs.
• “… and for Daniel our bishop”—who had a screaming spat with an angry rent-boy in his driveway.
• “… and for Joseph our bishop”—who tweeted “Nighty-night, baby” to a chum and claimed he was texting his sister. . . .

How could you, Archbishop Vigano?

“How can you celebrate Mass,” Cardinal Ouellet angrily demands of Archbishop Viganò, “and mention the pope’s name in the Eucharistic Prayer?” An excellent question. It forces us to ask whether we have ever imagined that in praying for our shepherds we were thereby paying tribute to their...

www.catholicculture.org

 

[kyrie03]

Well stated!

Peter is the rock (as are his successors) upon which Christ built His Church. Remaining silent amidst doctrinal and moral confusion is not confirming his brethren in the truth.

“And the Lord said: Simon, Simon, behold Satan hath desired to have you, that he may sift you as wheat: But I have prayed for thee, that thy faith fail not: and thou, being once converted, confirm thy brethren.” (Luke 22:31-32)

Commentary in Haydock Bible explains that Almighty God permitted all of the apostles to be tempted (chiefly Peter who would deny Christ 3 times) to convince them how weak they were of themselves and that by rising again by His grace, they would be cleansed and purified, as wheat that is sifted.

• St Jerome explains that the faith of Peter is built upon the rock, which is Christ Himself guided by the Spirit of Truth. And that once Peter is converted, he would confirm his brethren, the other bishops and their successors of which Peter is the head. Such a head is appointed by divine authority to cause the cessation of schisms and divisions.
• St Cyril admires the superabundance of divine patience. That the disciples might not lose courage, Our Lord promises Peter pardon and restores his apostolic dignity saying “confirm your brethren.”

Paul resisted Peter to his face “because he was to be blamed” for refusing to eat with uncircumcised Gentiles in front of the Jews (Galatians 2).

• Commentary, again from Haydock citing St Jerome, explains that Peter allowed the reprehension so that the Jews, seeing Peter publicly blamed and not justifying himself, would eat with the Gentiles.
• St Cyril explains that Paul’s reprehension was not an argument against Peter’s supremacy; and that in such cases, an inferior may and should admonish his superior.

We trust Christ’s promise that “the gates of hell will not prevail against the Church” (Matt 16:18) but we realize Satan is viciously attempting to undermine it’s foundation.

We await the successor of Peter to cleanse and purify the Church by exercising his authority and confirming his brethren in the truth!