Cardinal Pell and the forgiveness of sins

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We can only truly know the truth about George Pell when we reach heaven.
Trishie, personally I’m prepared to go beyond that. If George Pell is a pedophile, then I’m a pedophile. It goes beyond any intellectual reasoning. It is having a supernatural conviction regarding truth. Earthly justice has to be protected as well.
 
I believe Cardinal Pell a victim of a gross miscarriage of justice. In the very early part of this infamous business he was accused of doing what was standard practice by the Church then ( in HINDSIGHT rather sad and cringe worthy). At the time I wondered how long it would be before it transmorphed into the cardinal being engaged in criminal acts, and breaking of vows. When Cardinal Pell was sentenced I was ashamed of being Australian. Cardinal Pell was involved in cleaning up the Vatican banking…I am sure he managed to gain some enemies there and elsewhere. I pray he will eventually be exonerated.
 
Me too.
I’m not even saying the accuser is lying.
I did a lot of study on false memories, even contacting the best researcher of the phenomenon in London, when someone I know was falsely accused.
He was totally exonerated after horrible months of misery.
And i have a sister-in-law who unshakablely believes she used to see her grandfather sitting on the porch his blanket around him. He died before she was born

I believe in my soul that poor old man is innocent. Only a miracle would exhonerate him. He was the perfect target for all the hate,
I’ve cried and prayed for him.
I knew Lindy chamberlain was innocent.
Even more certainly him, but I think he’s the scapegoat for all the priests who sinned.

Oh and yes, I do know personally what it is endure actual abuse, and would never disregard or downplay its seriousness, and that harm it can cause, nor fail to insist it must be addressed

Our Australian Saint Mary MacKillop is a cousin removed by a few generations, through shared ancestry and more recently again through marriage of more recent ancestry. Mary’s siblings didn’t have children, she only had cousins.
I wish she can help Cardinal Pell .
Saint Mary MacKillop, you suffered many unjust false judgements.
Please pray powerfully for this son of the country you love, this priest and cardinal of the Church, and for the Church and the faithful whom you served while on earth

Love, Trishie
 
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I believe Cardinal Pell a victim of a gross miscarriage of justice. In the very early part of this infamous business he was accused of doing what was standard practice by the Church then ( in HINDSIGHT rather sad and cringe worthy). At the time I wondered how long it would be before it transmorphed into the cardinal being engaged in criminal acts, and breaking of vows. When Cardinal Pell was sentenced I was ashamed of being Australian. Cardinal Pell was involved in cleaning up the Vatican banking…I am sure he managed to gain some enemies there and elsewhere. I pray he will eventually be exonerated.
It was the evidence of Cardinal Pell that revealed that an old document of the Church Crimen sollicitationis had been resurrected and re-vitalised by the ultra conservative protagonist of Vatican II… Cardinal Ottaviano. It prevented the clergy from reporting any priestly crimes anywhere but stricty to the hierarchy. The myth that pedophile priests were a product of Vatican II can be soundly debunked by this act. Cdl Ottaviano did vulnerable Catholics immense damage. Pope St JPII revoked the force of the document during his pontificate, but shame on that zealot Cardinal for perverting the course of justice.
 
Me too.
I’m not even saying the accuser is lying.
I did a lot of study on false memories, even contacting the best researcher of the phenomenon in London, when someone I know was falsely accused.
He was totally exonerated after horrible months of misery.
And i have a sister-in-law who unshakablely believes she used to see her grandfather sitting on the porch his blanket around him. He died before she was born

I believe in my soul that poor old man is innocent. Only a miracle would exhonerate him. He was the perfect target for all the hate,
I’ve cried and prayed for him.
I knew Lindy chamberlain was innocent.
Even more certainly him, but I think he’s the scapegoat for all the priests who sinned.

Mary MacKillop is a cousin removed by a few generations, through shared ancestry and more recent again through marriage. Mary’s siblings didn’t have children, she only had cousins.
I wish she can help Cardinal Pell

Love, Trishie
I’ve never been more certain in my life of a mans innocence and … how wonderful to have such a connection to Mary McKillop whose intercession I’ve also requested for Cdl Pell and the Australian Church. My family is happy to include connections to St Thomas More and we regularly invoke his intercession also for various intentions.

Hopefully we’ll live to see the exoneration of Cardinal Pell and the exposure of the forces that convict him. I also agree with you that the accuser is probably a victim of someone… just not the good Cardinal.
 
The difficulty with Pell’s failed appeal, in my view, lies with the two judges’ personal experiences with the Church, in particular the commonality of purpose in a Sacristy after Mass.
They can be as busy as a hotel lobby at checkout time.
 
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Either you think the Cardinal is guilty, and should be defrocked and excommunicated or you don’t.
Or like me, you don’t know, but marvel at how one person’s claim that a wrong was done to him is enough to prove the case!
 
They can be as busy as a hotel lobby at checkout time.
Agreed wholeheartedly. As is my current parishes sacristy after Mass. So a Cathedral with concelebrating priests would be bordering on an organized chaos.

IMO, I don’t believe he did do any wrong on that day at that time in the way it is alleged to have happened. I’m in agreement with Justice Weinberg
 
In the middle is those of us on both the left and right who know he has never in any way shape or form been regarded as a perpetrator. He was an ordinary holy, educated Catholic Priest, oblivious to the vile sexual garbage that predators were perpetrating within the Church. Everyone should be aware of how Satan operates under cover of legitimacy and goodness.
There are also those who believe he is guilty for that and for more. They believe he actually did these crimes.
 
I know.

Imagine the following scenario -

A woman were to accuse a man that 22yrs ago he raped her. No witnesses. Just her say-so. And he was found guilty, even though others testified as to his whereabouts and that due to x, y, z, it wasn’t possible. Yet the man was found guilty and sent to goal.
 
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Emeraldlady:
I’ve never been more certain in my life of a mans innocence and …
Based on what?
Based on a similar combination of faith and knowledge that caused my parents to believe in Lindy Chamberlains innocence. There is a similar witch hunt, assumption and unbelievable science involved.
 
Would an otherwise good man - God fearing, Church going, alms giving - who confesses to outright murder be awarded a prayerful penance, or one that entailed both prayer and handing himself over to the police?
How could it be otherwise?
 
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Emeraldlady:
In the middle is those of us on both the left and right who know he has never in any way shape or form been regarded as a perpetrator. He was an ordinary holy, educated Catholic Priest, oblivious to the vile sexual garbage that predators were perpetrating within the Church. Everyone should be aware of how Satan operates under cover of legitimacy and goodness.
There are also those who believe he is guilty for that and for more. They believe he actually did these crimes.
But who are these people who believe he is guilty of pedophilia? When the police launched a sudden “get Pell” investigation, they could not uncover anyone with any credible accusation apart from the claimant in this case whose friend had always denied any abuse before he died. When it surfaced in the media, a local Mayor Paul Tatchell who’d been a victim of Ballarat priests himself and a long time advocate for other victims expressed this…

“But Tatchell, who estimates he has helped 60 survivors of sexual abuse by Ballarat clergy since the 1990s, never saw or heard anything untoward. “I’ve never heard his name mentioned once with this kind of thing,” he says. “I hate the bloke, but this caught me by surprise.”” George Pell at the Ballarat pool: 'Everything he did was done with a grandeur'

There’s got to be some sort of good evidence from credible witnesses that must back up what you claim when even the Ballarat advocates have never heard the accusations.
 
I understand the bitterness of the abused.
I prayed for a certain person’s repentance, and then his soul when he died. He died not long afterwards, that priest.
I forgive, yet when reminded by something it’s like a momentary blazing anger, a fire, “how dare he, how dare he”. how dare anyone abuse another person.
! I think that most survivors of abuse never receive address.
But those who cannot forgive, and whose fire of anger never really dies out … if they have captured the highest prize, innocent or not, but perceived guilty, they’d never willingly let him go. I’m not sure anyone would dare release him for the built up anger against the Church because of some of our beliefs, and the aeons of abuse by a percentage of clergy? . They may even fail to see or acknowledge the majority of good, sincere, faithful clergy of our times and of centuries past.

My daughter-in-law, a gentle person, teaching at a reasonable and pleasant school, with normally friendly and easygoing staff, were anything but that on the day Cardinal Pell’s appeal was rejected.
She heard the most vicious glee in what they said and how they said it.
She was too shocked to engage in the conversation.
Even with reasonable doubt, I don’t think people in general will countenance ‘reasonable doubt’ that is usually accorded at trials, regarding Cardinal Pell. Miracles aside. For the sake of the Church and the faithful , May God grant the miracle
 
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Would an otherwise good man - God fearing, Church going, alms giving - who confesses to outright murder be awarded a prayerful penance, or one that entailed both prayer and handing himself over to the police?
This has come up before here, and I’m sure using the search function will bring up the threads.

Restrictions on absolution are not so easily placed by a canon lawyer - " (2) Further, the few commentators who discuss the possibility of absolution being conditioned upon a future event (such as a later self-reporting of one’s crimes) reject that theory. Davis, Moral & Pastoral Theo (1945) III: 256: “The Sacrament of Penance cannot be given conditionally on some future event for the absolution cannot be suspended in its effect.” Cappello, De Sacramentis (1953) II, n. 77: “The sacrament [attempted] on a future condition is certainly rendered invalid, especially under the tradition and practice of the Church which has never administered this sacrament with this condition.”

1917 Code of Canon Law #886

1983 Code of Canon Law #980
 
Isn’t forgiveness itself conditional, dependent on the penitent undertaking his penance after he has left the confessional?
 
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