Cardinal Pell charged and must return

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Well, I had several people balk at doing the safety training even after I explained how easy and quick it was, it was online, etc.
That was just one of the reasons I quit. There was stuff in the parish and in the diocese I won’t go into.
I did do a term of high school, second year catechism. It was volunteer, of course, but closer to home and much lower stress. Fun. They asked me to take over as director for the next year but I was moving, far away.

Point is, there weren’t safeguards or awareness in the 70s. If Cardinal Pell is innocent–and I hope he is–it’s still a reminder for all in ministry about avoiding even the slightest hint of inappropriate contact with minors.
 
Mark121359 said:
Because accusations such as these towards a cardinal carries a great deal more weight than those directed at your basic parish priest. Because he’s a member of the College of Cardinals, whose primary duty is electing the bishop of Rome. He’s what’s known as a Prince of the Church. He is called that because he is considered the ecclesiastical equal to the prince of a reigning civil society. Because he’s a senior adviser to Pope Francis and the third-ranking official in the Holy See…that’s why!

Peace, Mark
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I think victims don’t make distinctions between a high ranking official and a random person.
I pray he’s innocent. But it doesn’t matter his rank. He will have to answer his accuser like anyone else. Again I pray he is falsely accused so we can move past this. I don’t wish abuse on anyone. He appears to be a holy Cardinal. Well see what the outcome is, but when people start saying a person is above reproach, that’s when they fall pretty hard. And it keeps genuine victims silent.
Haven’t we learned this by now?
 
johnnykins said:
Thus he may be found not guilty and yet actually be guilty. Similarly, he may be found guilty and be innocent.
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The biblical manner in which guilt or innocence of the accused is established is quite stringent, and Jesus and St. Paul both alluded to the process in the New Testament and any decent chain reference bible worth its salt will reference the specific Old Testament verses that Jesus and St. Paul alluded to. Public opinion tends to adhere more to rumor, gossip, hyperbolized inference, and mob mentality rather than the facts at hand. Sometimes, the courts themselves are swayed more by mob mentality than by the facts at hand. Philadelphia is a prime example of this trend. I sincerely hope Victoria does not follow suit, though it appears they already have.
 
The court date is now 26 of July.
Its been put forward a week.

Survivors of abuse from proven cases are extremely concerned this case and its media will shift focus off measures being taken to stop any future potential for abuse. Pray for their intentions.

I will post some of their media coverage on this later. Given its local. As were Risdale and Cardinal Pell.

Pray for all Diocese involved , pray for the Catholic Church.
Pray for our Holy Father, Pope Francis.
 
Vouthon said:
He will receive a fair and free trial, and if he is guilty then justice will be served. I pray that justice is served.
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Bernard Shero, Father Engelhardt, Father Gordon MacCrae, did these three among many others receive a “fair and free trial”?
 
For survivors coming out with that statement , its quite significant.
 
kmaaj said:
Bernard Shero, Father Engelhardt, Father Gordon MacCrae, did these three among many others receive a “fair and free trial”?
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It will be fair, we wont be running a kangaroo court. It wont be free. Lawyers demand payment
 
StudentMI said:
David Ridsdale. 60 minutes interview. Peter Saunders. Look them up. Not my fault you haven’t done your homework.

And comparing him to Jesus? Please.
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David Risdale is the nephew of Gerard Risdale.

What are you speaking about? About this?
heraldsun.com.au/news/law-order/george-pell-seeks-apology-from-peter-saunders-over-60-minutes-interview/news-story/3c0163725935ca6dae6f2a16d6777037

George Pell seeks apology from Peter Saunders over 60 Minutes interview
Grant McArthur, Herald Sun
June 7, 2015 10:12pm
CARDINAL George Pell has sent a legal letter demanding Peter Saunders withdraw allegations which the Cardinal claims present him as a sociopath who lied to cover up child sexual abuse matters.

Through his lawyer, Cardinal Pell accused Mr Saunders, who sits on the Pontifical Commission for the Protection of Minors, of adopting the authority of the church committee in a misleading manner during an explosive 60 Minutes interview.

A British child abuse survivor, Mr Saunders last week told the program Cardinal Pell’s treatment of abuse victims had been callous and his position was untenable.

A letter from Cardinal Pell’s lawyer Richard Leder states Mr Saunders’ comments were “either uninformed as to the relevant history, or were deliberately selective” and that they were “inconsistent with the position of the church and the church committee of which you are a member”.
 
Faithdancer said:
The Australian justice system will proceed, and I’m confident that the truth will come out, one way or the other.

Reading the news, though, it occurs to me how dangerous it is for a grown man, especially a single man, to be swimming with children, or doing anything with children that aren’t his own, without backup, i.e. at least one vetted adult witness. Attitudes were different in the 70s, to be sure, and these days everyone is quick to be suspicious, whisper, and gossip.

Adults who work with children–particularly male adults-- need to be hyper-vigilant at all times and avoid putting themselves in compromising situations.
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This is so true. What a different world we live in today although child abuse has been going on for many generations. (Just to be clear, I am not talking about the Church.) But in the modern age, even a harmless gesture or word from an adult to a child is more than likely to be misinterpreted. When I watch some of the old movies, I have to laugh at certain scenes of intimacy between adults and children which, in those years, would never have been thought of as improper.

I have no specific comment about Cardinal Pell since I am not familiar with the case. Like others, I hope and pray that justice be served for all involved.
 
And you can’t explain to a six-year-old, “this is why I can’t hug you when you’re sad,” or “this is why you can’t hold my hand when we’re walking to the cafeteria,” which they will sometimes try to do. How could you possibly explain? 🤷
The little ones really do have very big hearts. Whenever I work with them, my heart grows just a little bit bigger.
 
Padres1969 said:
From what I’ve read Pell would be the highest positioned Catholic prelate to be accused of abuse directly yes. He’s not the first Cardinal to be accused. But Pell is a highly positioned Cardinal in the Vatican, being a direct advisor to Pope Francis as the Prefect of the Secretariat for the Economy.
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The thing is, this isn’t just one accusation. If it were only one accuser, there is always the possibility the accusation is not true. The “victim” might be lying or mistaken. But two or more accusations…

The Bible principle at 1 Timothy 5:19 is: “Do not accept an accusation against an older man except on the evidence of two or three witnesses.” *

The Australian police say there are several.

What will the Catholic Church do with him? How does it work when a member of the clergy is credibly accused of child abuse? Are they excommunicated?
Consider, aside from the terrible sin and damage to the victims, this will mean he has been hiding this and lying to the Pope for years. 😦

With Jehovah’s Witnesses, if an elder is found guilty of child sexual abuse he is typically disfellowshipped (expelled from the congregation and shunned) . Even if he is allowed to return eventually, he is ineligible of ever holding a position of authority in the congregation again. (That is regardless of whether the victim wants to press charges or not)

Is it similar with the Catholic church?
 
Roseeurekacross said:
David Risdale is the nephew of Gerard Risdale.

What are you speaking about? About this?/QUOTE]

No. About how David Ridsdale sent a letter to Cardinal Pell informing him his uncle (Gerald) had molested him at the same time Pell was informed Ridsdale was molesting kids in the diocese. Pell’s response to David was basically “how much money do you want?”
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kmaaj said:
Fact: Fr. MacCrae could have been paroled decades ago had he lied to the parole board.

Prove the charges for which he was incarcerated for. Ready, set, go!:
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Did you even bother to read the documents? He propositioned a minor. He sat a child on his lap and kisses and hugged him. He has a decade long paper trail of admissions and reports from his supervisor showing he was troubled and potentially dangerous.

Are you kidding me?
 
Thom18 said:
More ammunition for anti-Catholics and anti-Christians in general. 😦

.
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…and hypocritically too. That case will have a large international following, as well as those who will be watching the Vatican for reaction.
 
abucs said:
You present this as a fact and do not include Pell’s strong denials.

Pell at Royal Commission.
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Certainly, given that many priests have been found guilty of these heinous acts against innocent victims, there tends to be a predisposition among many to side with those who say they are themselves a victim, and thus to believe allegations unless they can be disproved. There appear to be posters on this thread who have formed that judgement.

I suggest it is best to pray for justice for all and await the outcome. But it may be some years coming. And even if the Cardinal is found not guilty, I suspect justice for him will be elusive, as the accusations cannot be unmade.
 
Rau said:
Certainly, given that many priests have been found guilty of these heinous acts against innocent victims, there tends to be a predisposition among many to side with those who say they are themselves a victim, and thus to believe allegations unless they can be disproved. There appear to be posters on this thread who have formed that judgement.

I suggest it is best to pray for justice for all and await the outcome. But it may be some years coming. And even if the Cardinal is found not guilty, I suspect justice for him will be elusive, as the accusations cannot be unmade.
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Well said. Thank you. All that is found guilty of crimes against innocent children must be brought to face swift, severe justice, period…

But there seems to be a presumption of guilt until proven innocent when it comes to the clergy. Worse yet, even after being found innocent, the reputation of the found innocent is forever tarnished.
 
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