Cardinal Sarah asks priests to start celebrating Mass facing east this Advent

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I have noticed the change in the “atmosphere” so to speak, when the mass is said ad orientem, even with both masses offered according to the Pauline missal.

I have especially noticed that the celebrant usually stops trying to “entertain” the congregation and tends to be more focused on the liturgical action.
 
powerofk said:
Unfortunately, many churches that were built/renovated after Vatican II were constructed so that celebrating the mass ad orientum would be quite difficult, if not impossible.
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Could you please provide a descriptive example? I have never seen a post Vatican II parish where this would be impossible. There is always room for one priest. And usually, there is still room for concelebrating priests, even if the concelebrating priest has to take a step down.

If you have a lot of priests concelebrating for Easter Vigil, etc, the concelebrating priests could sit in the front rows of the pews like they do often at Chrism Masses.
 
phil19034 said:
Could you please provide a descriptive example? I have never seen a post Vatican II parish where this would be impossible. There is always room for one priest. And usually, there is still room for concelebrating priests, even if the concelebrating priest has to take a step down.

If you have a lot of priests concelebrating for Easter Vigil, etc, the concelebrating priests could sit in the front rows of the pews like they do often at Chrism Masses.
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Here’s one where it might be difficult without modification.

(Please Note: This uploaded content is no longer available.)

Since the altar is right at the edge of the top step.
 
Padres1969 said:
Here’s one where it might be difficult without modification.

http://s3-media3.fl.yelpcdn.com/bphoto/k0IUanrTxp_vtazWWBhhlQ/o.jpg

Since the altar is right at the edge of the top step.
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OK, thanks. Obviously I didn’t imply that all parishes could start doing it tomorrow.

However, the Altar in that picture is a wooden altar. I would bet it would be relatively easy to unbolt it from the floor (if it’s bolted down) and moved back a little.

There are few (I said few not no) free standing altars that cannot be moved by the Parish maintenance men or a third party contractor.

But regardless, I’m not saying that no modifications will be necessary, but that most Altars are situated where the priest can easily walk around them when using incense.

God Bless
 
drforjc said:
I have noticed the change in the “atmosphere” so to speak, when the mass is said ad orientem, even with both masses offered according to the Pauline missal.

I have especially noticed that the celebrant usually stops trying to “entertain” the congregation and tends to be more focused on the liturgical action.
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I have never noticed this. I’ve been to both orientations, albeit I worship mainly in Benedictine monasteries. I’ve been to monasteries that do it in both directions. Frankly, to suggest that a monk-priest is trying to “entertain” the congregation is mildly offensive. Monks work hard to blend themselves into the liturgy. The Mass at our abbey is concelebrated, and the configuration of the altar, especially its positioning relative to the choir would have the perverse effect of causing the dropping of one Benedictine tradition to take on a specifically non-monastic one (ad orientem). Moreover, it would introduce a huge incongruity into the liturgy where the altar, and what happens on it, would be totally obscured by the concelebrating priests (roughly 15 plus some visiting priests on occasion).

To me that would detract from the reverence of the liturgy and detract from the communal aspect of the monastic liturgy.

That said, there was one parish where our schola regularly sang. The two regular priests there indeed tended to draw attention to themselves (especially with their homilies). At the consecration one liked to sing (rather loudly) the EP. The other didn’t really “put on a show” at that part of the liturgy.

However one day a visiting missionary priest filled in and like all religious, he was utterly transparent to the liturgy in that he carried it out with great humility and never imposing himself on it. He recited the Mass and did not sing, but did so with such reverence, humility and transparence that it was an utterly beautiful moment. He was the same during the homily, which was low-key, utterly orthodox and thoughtful.

To me it is setting up a false dichotomy to say that versus populum results in the priest trying to “entertain” the faithful (which he can nonetheless still do at the homily if he really leans that way).

And if a priest can be a distraction “versus populum”, what to say about this ad orientem Mass that I attended at Monte Cassino:

i179.photobucket.com/albums/w312/OraLabora/Italy%202009/b5c5c286-1ce9-49b5-8e03-4c93fd72f978_zpsk7zzvkj5.jpg

It’s a far cry from the “noble simplicity” that Sacrosanctum Concilium called for (and not very keeping with the monastic tradition either). Note too that the monks’ stalls are behind the altar, so the abbot is actually versus populum for his community, which is keeping with monastic tradition. But the ostentation isn’t.
 
Please see post #29. Blowback? My goal is to obey Holy Mother Church period. I was there before and after Vatican II. I was not shocked, and my Catholic school was not shocked, to see the priest facing the people the first time. Obedience, not my opinion.

Ed
 
Casilda said:
I believe Cardinal Sarah is prophetic. I pray he is our next Pope.
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Interesting as I was thinking this is one of God’s surprises like Humanae Vitae was when liberals all thought Pope Paul VI was going to change the teaching of Jesus. He, of course, is now looked on as a prophet.
 
johnnyc176 said:
Interesting as I was thinking this is one of God’s surprises like Humanae Vitae was when liberals all thought Pope Paul VI was going to change the teaching of Jesus. He, of course, is now looked on as a prophet.
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His own advisors urged him to relax the rules regarding artificial contraception, and when he didn’t follow their advice, the outcry was great. He told us what would happen if we ignored Church teaching and here we are.

Ed
 
PTL said:
Many people seem lack of understanding the importance of piety and reverence. If we know who we are worshiping in Mass, we would not only want to kneel to receive Holy Communion, we would want to prostrate afterwards if possible.
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I’m pretty sure we all know who we’re worshiping regardless of which way the priest faces. Surely you’re not implying that we’ve been celebrating irreverent Masses for the past few decades. 😉
porthos11 said:
It actually will.

The only way the Church will succeed in anything it tries to do, be it evangelize peoples or feed the hungry, is if it does its worship properly.

The Mass is the start and end of everything the Church does on earth. All other endeavours will fail miserably if one does not take care first of how Mass is celebrated.
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Facing ad orientem will feed more people than the way it’s done now? (I know that’s not what you really meant…)

I sense that an ad orientem arrangement might actually turn us more inward to become focused on a rigid observance of the Mass to the point that we lose sight the brothers and sisters around us who need our Christian help. I don’t think God wants our pure focus on him. “Feed my sheep.”
 
phil19034 said:
OK, thanks. Obviously I didn’t imply that all parishes could start doing it tomorrow.

However, the Altar in that picture is a wooden altar. I would bet it would be relatively easy to unbolt it from the floor (if it’s bolted down) and moved back a little.

There are few (I said few not no) free standing altars that cannot be moved by the Parish maintenance men or a third party contractor.

But regardless, I’m not saying that no modifications will be necessary, but that most Altars are situated where the priest can easily walk around them when using incense.

God Bless
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Right. In my parish, we’d have to do a full reconstruction… or at least take out the first pew. My parish setup is Greek-theatre style, with the altar at the bottom-center, and the first pew on the same level as the altar.
 
edwest2 said:
All the priest has to do is switch sides.

Ed
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No. Go back and look at the picture of the concelebration in Monte Cassino. Everything is still visible, including the elevation of the Host.

Now look at the relative position of the altar and the choir in the first picture at my abbey. If the concelebrating priests all faced east (and this church does physically face east as almost all monastic churches do), and the relative elevation difference between the altar and the choir stalls.

As a result the altar would be totally obscured and it would be hard if not impossible to see the elevation of the Host.

Also keep in mind that the monk-priest, facing his community during the consecration, is a long-standing tradition that pre-dates Vatican II. The Church has to be very careful when breaking the long-standing tradition of a religious community.

Moreover this church was consecrated in 1994 and was built with 1) concelebration and 2) versus populum celebration, in mind.

That was and is their prerogative. The church was built to serve the community, not the laity and their notions of how Mass should be celebrated based on parish life.

Your notion of tradition is set in a specific time and place. This is not the monastic reality, it is not the Eastern reality, all have their own traditions that merit respect by the Church, and the laity.
 
porthos11 said:
It will work just fine.
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No, again it will be against monastic tradition.

It would be no different than forcing the monks to abandon their Monastic Breviary for the Roman Liturgy of the Hours.

Sorry, ain’t gonna happen!
 
I don’t doubt your personal observations and your sincerity for never seeing priests acting as though they are “entertaining” the congregation. I wish what you have observed is also true throughout the universal Church. Furthermore, seeing what you have seen in your case, I would also agree with you that it would be rude and insulting to the clergy to imply otherwise.

Unfortunately, in my experience, there were some priests who did act as entertainers during Mass. For examples, I saw a priest in CA within the last month actually left the altar during the Sign of the Peace to greet people in the pew and exchanged pleasantries with them. Another time, I saw a priest, during a sermon, walking around the altar as if it was a theater stage where he basically did a comedy routine to the liking of the audience. At the end of his routine (sermon), the audience gave him a big applause, and he cheerfully accepted it. I also saw another priest who waved and gave a thumbs up to his acquaintances in the pew while standing at the altar during Mass.

I am aware that this thread is not about liturgical abuses. But my point is there are some priests who do see part of their role during Mass is to “entertain” the congregation.
 
OraLabora said:
No, again it will be against monastic tradition.

It would be no different than forcing the monks to abandon their Monastic Breviary for the Roman Liturgy of the Hours.

Sorry, ain’t gonna happen!
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No, it will work, spatially speaking. There’s enough space, so it’s not an issue at all. Mass can easily be celebrated ad orientem on that altar.

Monastic tradition is another matter entirely, and if that’s the sticking point, so be it.

The vast majority of us here are not monastics; we are parishioners and for many of us, it does matter.

The other fact of life though is that for the other vast majority of people outside of CAF, they will either not care, or be wholly opposed to the proposal for a host of other reasons and misconceptions. Monastic tradition will not be one of them.
 
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