Cardinal Schönborn: Pope Francis has already changed church

[powerofk]

Serious question now. Is the church really that unwelcoming?

I have always found it to be most welcoming, even when I was not at my best behaviour. I know converts who told me they found it very welcoming and helpful, even when they had to sort out a few things in order to be received.

I can’t help but feel that the accusation of it being unwelcoming is simply the refusal to accept sin as normal and acceptable.

It depends on where you go, honestly - when he was Archbishop of Buenos Aires, Pope Francis often scolded priests who refused to baptize babies who were born outside of a valid sacramental marriage. In other words, the priests were punishing the babies for the sins of their parents. One young lady had had an affair with a married man, got pregnant, and was pressured to abort her child - it’s quite possible that the woman repented after the affair ended but before the baby was born, yet her pastor was going to refuse to baptize the baby. Such incidents are what push people away from the Church. Other people have had issues with ushers at Church. So, yes, sometimes people have had unwelcoming experiences with the Church.

However, as stated before, I believe most of the so-called “unwelcoming” feelings people have had with the Church is because they simply don’t understand, due to poor catechesis, why the Church teaches that their “lifestyle” is sinful. All many people see is a list of “do’s” and “don’ts” and “Thou shalt nots”. Without proper catechesis, adults (especially adults living in an “anything goes” West) can believe that they are being treated like toddlers getting scolded at by their parents. Without proper catechesis, this can either cause rejection of the Church’s teachings on one end of the spectrum or scrupulosity on the other end of the spectrum (or even scrupulosity followed by utter rejection for “peace of mind”).

 

[gilliam]

Serious question now. Is the church really that unwelcoming?

I think that is the reason for the survey. It isn’t like the Church is exactly growing by leaps and bounds in Western countries. And our mission isn’t to be the Church of a select small fraternity, but to bring everyone to Jesus and give them the Good News.

I can’t help but feel that the accusation of it being unwelcoming is simply the refusal to accept sin as normal and acceptable.

You catch more flies with honey than with vinegar.

When I was in college I had a guy in our dorm who decided he was going to convert me. He insisted that I had to repent and accept Christ as our Lord and Savior. Even after I told him I was Catholic and believed in Christ he wouldn’t accept me and I didn’t feel welcomed. I think a lot of Catholics act like that student if people don’t come to us already converted, we don’t know what to do but reject them. We need to welcome all sinners, not just the ones that act like us. Will they change their lives? Only if we give them a chance.

We don’t have to change any dogma or canon law; we just need to change our attitude. I hope Pope Francis shows us the way. I don’t pretend it is easy or that I have the answers.

We just saw a news article about a woman who was fired for having a baby out of wedlock. Now what do you think that woman and her child will think of the Church after that incident? Did we save a soul or lose two souls? How welcome do you think her child will feel to go to Church? Maybe there was a third choice the school could have offered her?

 

[gilliam]

However, as stated before, I believe most of the so-called “unwelcoming” feelings people have had with the Church is because they simply don’t understand, due to poor catechesis, why the Church teaches that their “lifestyle” is sinful. All many people see is a list of “do’s” and “don’ts” and “Thou shalt nots”. Without proper catechesis, adults (especially adults living in an “anything goes” West) can believe that they are being treated like toddlers getting scolded at by their parents. Without proper catechesis, this can either cause rejection of the Church’s teachings on one end of the spectrum or scrupulosity on the other end of the spectrum (or even scrupulosity followed by utter rejection for “peace of mind”).

The training, I think, needs to first be to already practicing Catholics, before you try to train those outside the faith.

 

[Contra_Mundum_1]

I think a lot of Catholics act like that student if people don’t come to us already converted, we don’t know what to do but reject them. We need to welcome all sinners, not just the ones that act like us. Will they change their lives? Only if we give them a chance.

We just saw a news article about a woman who was fired for having a baby out of wedlock. Now what do you think that woman and her child will think of the Church after that incident? Did we save a soul or lose two souls? How welcome do you think her child will feel to go to Church? Maybe there was a third choice the school could have offered her?

In my experience, people in the church welcome those who have an open mind and an open heart and have respect for the church. We are all on this spiritually journey together, but at different stages. We change, we grow. That is normal. I doubt that anyone sane would be nasty to a person who is seeking God and is honestly doing their best at a given moment.

But there are also people who are full of pride and feel entitled to get something out of the church. They treat it like an institution whose purpose is to provide a service, and they think they deserve to get what they want, at their terms. Should they be continuously welcomed and accommodated? I don’t think so. Everyone deserves a chance but the line should be drawn somewhere, at some point.

Don’t know what to say about the teacher episode. On the one hand, the church is pro life and a child is always welcome. But on the other hand the teacher committed a mortal sin that has consequences that are obvious to everybody, while she is supposed to be an example to her pupils and follow the church teaching. I don’t think that the school was wrong to fire her, but I agree that maybe there could have been a 3rd choice.