Cardinal Sodano's Address to U.N. Summit

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walstan:
NO. This behaviour is NOT supported by Catholicism, unfortunatey it is supported by many western governments including the UK, USA and others when it suits their political needs.
No, if you have the capability of helping someone and you have the responsibility to help, you must help. With authority and power comes responsibility.

CARATAS’ approach does not work in many cases since people simply can’t get into a country to save people from genocide without army support.
 
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walstan:
So the western powers did not support Saddam Hussain in his war against Iran? The western powers did not support Bin Laden when he was fighting Russia in Ahfganistan? South Africa, by it’s inabilty to condemn is not giving tacit support to Mugabe? China did not support North Korea in the Korean war? America and Britain did not support Stalin during the last WW?
Did they?
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walstan:
The list goes on and on
No doubt. How much of that list is immediately relevant to the topic of the thread?
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walstan:
and anyone naive enough not to believe governments have no interest in being ultruistic: unless it serves their purposes, really doesn’t deserve a vote in a “free” society.
So votes are earned by people who are not naive, presumably by your standards of naivete? An interesting form of government. Can you give an example of a country which has such a form of government?
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walstan:
Of course it covers a broad span of time, human nature covers a broad span of time.
I think one is better advised to simply discuss the topic of the thread point by point, giving support for each point instead of making sweeping, unsupported statements on the entire history of the world.
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walstan:
It would appear that one is quite at liberty to quote from the OT but not, it seems, refer back a relatively small number of years.
While it may seem that way to you, I think a more accurate portrayal is that quotations from any source are legitimately made according to their relevance to various points contributing to a general thesis.
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walstan:
I have a couple of wooden nickels you might like to look at.
Sounds interesting. I’ll give you a wooden penny apiece for them.
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walstan:
Simple, look at all the critcism on this forum alone of the French for example
Unwarranted criticism?
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walstan:
look what happens if anyone mentions Halliburton?
Are you mentioning Haliburton?
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walstan:
It is not inflammatory, it’s a reminder of Gods promise, the question for everyone is simple, do you believe? If you do then you have NOTHING in this world to fear, if you don’t, then remove the word Catholic from your resume.
Oh I do believe (ref the Credos). I simply do not share your taste for rhetorical questions and meandering prose. Suggesting that I remove the word Catholic (capital ‘C’) from my resume when I have given you no grounds to suspect my orthodoxy is inflammatory.
 
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walstan:
It is not inflammatory, it’s a reminder of Gods promise, the question for everyone is simple, do you believe? If you do then you have NOTHING in this world to fear, if you don’t, then remove the word Catholic from your resume.
It is inflamatory, and your condescending attitude that you are to remind us of God’s promise is downright offensive. But the last sentence is even more offensive.
 
WARNING

If the personal attacks continue on this thread, I will close it.
 
vern humphrey:
It is inflamatory, and your condescending attitude that you are to remind us of God’s promise is downright offensive. But the last sentence is even more offensive.
Was it inflammatory and offensive to remind people of Gods promise? I thought that was done every Sunday at Mass with the reading of the Gospel.

You claim my last sentence was even more offensive and yet many on this forum say anyone calling themselves Catholic cannot, if they involve themselves in for example, abortion. But which is the greater evil? Denying life to one of Gods children, or denying the existance of Gods new and everlasting covenant?

The latter is a basic and indesputable part of Catholicism, it is reiterated every Sunday during the creed, remember:

We look for the ressurection of the dead, and the life of the world to come. Amen.

Question or deny that, and you deny Catholicism, it’s that simple. So my statement was not offensive, it was a simple statement and a reminder of our faith.
 
Last warning.

Posts in this forum must be charitable and polite. Personal attacks must stop or I will close the thread and possibly suspend the posters.
 
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gilliam:
So no matter how vile the dictator. No matter if he was committing genocide in his nation. No matter what horrendous acts he committed against God and man, you would not attack him? And somehow you think this position is supported by Catholicism?
Perhaps you did not notice the legal grounds for war outlined by the attorney general includes humanitarian intervention during a crisis? The words were “b) exceptionally, to avert overwhelming humanitarian catastrophe”.

Did you fail to read that or have you just chosen to ignore it?
 
and your standard for humanitarian catastrophe is?

Are iron maiden, pears of anguish, mass graves, gassing, deliberate starvation not enough for you?
 
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abcdefg:
and your standard for humanitarian catastrophe is?

Are iron maiden, pears of anguish, mass graves, gassing, deliberate starvation not enough for you?
If that was the cause of invasion why not invade in 2002, 2001, 2000 etc. What changed in the Iraqi Human Rights situation in 2003 that made an invasion necessary that year?

Remind me which year was the gassing of the Kurds?
 
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Matt25:
If that was the cause of invasion why not invade in 2002, 2001, 2000 etc. What changed in the Iraqi Human Rights situation in 2003 that made an invasion necessary that year?

Remind me which year was the gassing of the Kurds?
Answer my question straight please.
Saddam wasn’t removed in 2003 doesn’t mean he shouldn’t be removed in 2004
 
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abcdefg:
Answer my question straight please.
Saddam wasn’t removed in 2003 doesn’t mean he shouldn’t be removed in 2004
Saddam would still be in power, torture or no torture, if the main export of Iraq was carrots. The second biggest recipient of US foreign aid, Egypt has an appalling record of torture. You don’t have to invade to stop the torture. Just stop the aid. Why does the US not do that? Because Human Rights are less important to national governements than geo-political strategic interests.
 
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abcdefg:
Answer my question straight please.
Saddam wasn’t removed in 2003 doesn’t mean he shouldn’t be removed in 2004
But nothing at all changed between 2000 and 2003. If President Bush was so keen to invade Iraq he should have made it part of his policy proposals while running for President in 2000.

The only thing that made the invasion possible was 9/11 - which had nothing to do with Iraq.

As to the gassing of the Kurds - that’ll be about the same time that the US (and other countries) were still selling chemicals to Iraq because they were fighting nasty Iran. Almost as good a plan as backing Osama Bin Laden against the Soviets, that one.

Mike
 
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Matt25:
Saddam would still be in power, torture or no torture, if the main export of Iraq was carrots. The second biggest recipient of US foreign aid, Egypt has an appalling record of torture. You don’t have to invade to stop the torture. Just stop the aid. Why does the US not do that? Because Human Rights are less important to national governements than geo-political strategic interests.
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MikeWM:
But nothing at all changed between 2000 and 2003. If President Bush was so keen to invade Iraq he should have made it part of his policy proposals while running for President in 2000.

The only thing that made the invasion possible was 9/11 - which had nothing to do with Iraq.

As to the gassing of the Kurds - that’ll be about the same time that the US (and other countries) were still selling chemicals to Iraq because they were fighting nasty Iran. Almost as good a plan as backing Osama Bin Laden against the Soviets, that one.

Mike
“and your standard for humanitarian catastrophe is?”
I just need to know your answer. how many need to be dead, how many need to be tortured, how many need to raped to be a catastrophe?
you still can’t come forward with an answer. why? you simply don’t recognize anything as a humanitarian catastrophe. every victim got what he/she deserved under Saddam is your belief.
 
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abcdefg:
every victim got what he/she deserved under Saddam is your belief.
Please stop putting inaccuracies in my mouth. An apology for calling me a liar yesterday wouldn’t go amiss either.

Mike
 
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MikeWM:
Please stop putting inaccuracies in my mouth. An apology for calling me a liar yesterday wouldn’t go amiss either.

Mike
How can you prove I’m putting inaccuracies in your mouth. what’s in your mouth? Show it to us.

If you’re not a liar in the MDG thread, then you have to admit you have terrible reasoning there. in that case I apologize.

your logic:
pro-abortions suggest post-natal care and safer child birth while pro-lifers try to wipe them out of MDG.

And you have no answer to that.
 
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abcdefg:
If you’re not a liar in the MDG thread, then you have to admit you have terrible reasoning there. in that case I apologize.
If I’m not a liar? Do you think that passes for an apology?
your logic:
pro-abortions suggest post-natal care and safer child birth while pro-lifers try to wipe them out of MDG.

And you have no answer to that.
Mainly because I said nothing of the sort. Re-read what I wrote rather than assuming I think what you’d like me to think.

Mike
 
I’m closing this thread.

Posters should not use CAF as a personal battleground.

Warning, if this continues on other threads, I will suspend the posters.
 
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