Cardinal urges Pope Francis to take hot-button issues off table for next family synod [How to write to the Vatican]

[gilliam]

So if you don’t the clergy to act a certain way your not a ‘serious Catholic’? And just where in the Catechism does it say that?

Please, please, please, let’s not make rules and regulations up here that don’t exist and invent belligerent idioms like ‘your not a serious Catholic because you don’t want what I think a serious Catholic should want.’

Come on …

 

[SWolf]

So if you don’t the clergy to act a certain way your not a ‘serious Catholic’? And just where in the Catechism does it say that?

Please, please, please, let’s not make rules and regulations up here that don’t exist and invent belligerent idioms like ‘your not a serious Catholic because you don’t want what I think a serious Catholic should want.’

Come on …

You’ll have to point me to the part of my post where I said “You’re not a serious Catholic unless you believe X”. I have a bad memory. Note “Serious Catholics want X” != “All Serious Catholics want X”. I speak for many more people than myself.

However, I will say one on this post:

You are not a Catholic unless you gives your intellectual consent to all 2000 years of infallible Church doctrine.

Is that controversial?

 

[kozlosap]

I disagree with everything here. I don’t think the “uber conservatives” are trying to derail the synod. They just disagree with some of the things (The Communion proposal.), which should not even be discussed. It does nothing but give fear to those weak in faith, and it is a slap in the face of all those that died for the defense of marriage.

I always think of what would St. Padre Pio think of the Communion proposal? ( I wouldn’t want to be around him if I was the one instigating the idea, personally.)

OK, fair enough, but please remember when using Padre Pio as an example of sainthood that he refused confession to WOMEN who were not dressed to his standards. Undoubtedly, Our Lord should have been Padre Pio’s example of living out the Gospels,

Secondly, who died trying to protect civil marriage? The news today that Charlie Manson will be married next month should send us all into great deliberation.

 

[McCall1981]

Well, the Ghana Bishop’s Conference has done what it can to take these hot-button issues off the table (I’d urge people to read the whole statement, it is fantastic):

“The Church will continue to proclaim the unwavering truth that monogamy is what God has ordained and that polygamy is contrary to conjugal love and incompatible with the unity of marriage. She will continue to teach that marriage is between a man and a woman and not people of the same sex. The Church will also continue to teach that divorce from a living and lawful spouse is not permitted by the Church because it separates what God has joined together. She suffers with those who are not admitted to communion due to their marital status and will continue to journey with them in the faith to encourage them not to despair.”

cbcgha.org/cbc/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=508:catholic-bishops-issue-2014-communique-in-accra

 

[FollowChrist34]

Well, the Ghana Bishop’s Conference has done what it can to take these hot-button issues off the table (I’d urge people to read the whole statement, it is fantastic):

“The Church will continue to proclaim the unwavering truth that monogamy is what God has ordained and that polygamy is contrary to conjugal love and incompatible with the unity of marriage. She will continue to teach that marriage is between a man and a woman and not people of the same sex. The Church will also continue to teach that divorce from a living and lawful spouse is not permitted by the Church because it separates what God has joined together. She suffers with those who are not admitted to communion due to their marital status and will continue to journey with them in the faith to encourage them not to despair.”

cbcgha.org/cbc/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=508:catholic-bishops-issue-2014-communique-in-accra

Oh, ok, now I get it. The Church is committed to the family.

 

[SWolf]

Secondly, who died trying to protect civil marriage?

St. Thomas More.

 

[brideofjesus]

The issue with bringing these “hot-button” topics up is to imply that they are subject to change. For this entire century and a good portion of the last, the world has been making demands for the Church to get with the times, make things easier, and conform itself more to mainstream thought. The Communion for the divorced and the remarried is the perfect example of this, asking the Church to soften it’s discipline based on the incredible surge of divorces in modern society.

The Church has been playing defense, and laity who have suffered to conform themselves to the Church’s(and Jesus’) tough standards feel like their own leadership does not take them seriously. The Synod should be offensive, attacking common misperceptions of Modernist thought and ask the world what the increase of secularism feel-goodism has brought.

Serious Catholics want an aggressive, confident clergy willing to call evil what it is.
Serious Catholics want a clergy that doesn’t care if they are liked by the world.
Serious Catholics want a true shepherd, which means tough love when necessary.
Serious Catholics want preaching of salvation as a tough narrow road, not a highway.

Serious Catholics want a document tough and authoritative enough to make the Bishops at the Council of Trent proud.

Serious Catholics, all in all, are sick of weak leadership.

Well said. Thank you for comment. It seems like those who suffered to live for Christ and His Church are being ignored.

 

[LongingSoul]

Well, the Ghana Bishop’s Conference has done what it can to take these hot-button issues off the table (I’d urge people to read the whole statement, it is fantastic):

“The Church will continue to proclaim the unwavering truth that monogamy is what God has ordained and that polygamy is contrary to conjugal love and incompatible with the unity of marriage. She will continue to teach that marriage is between a man and a woman and not people of the same sex. The Church will also continue to teach that divorce from a living and lawful spouse is not permitted by the Church because it separates what God has joined together. She suffers with those who are not admitted to communion due to their marital status and will continue to journey with them in the faith to encourage them not to despair.”

cbcgha.org/cbc/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=508:catholic-bishops-issue-2014-communique-in-accra

Where is the part about the Ghana Bishops urging the Pope ‘to take these hot-button issues off the table’? I read the whole article and the emphasis was on the negative pressures on Ghanaian Catholic families like polygamy or divorce and remarriage if a first wife can’t concieve a child quickly enough or the concept of the equality of men and women in marriage in a male dominated environment.

That report had nothing whatsoever to do with the divorce/remarriage issue as per the Synod and nowhere in the report did the Ghana Bishops urge anything be taken off the table at the Synod.

 

[LongingSoul]

Well said. Thank you for comment. It seems like those who suffered to live for Christ and His Church are being ignored.

Where is this strange sentiment coming from? I’ve striven to live a chaste Catholic life my entire life, remaining chaste before marriage, never using contraception, raising my kids to be Catholic and staying the course with marriage that has been painful and difficult for 26 years. Yet for all of that I don’t feel any sense of being ignored or betrayed by this issue. To me it wreaks of some sort of jealousy or entitlement. It seems to be saying look God, I’ve been the good son doing all the right things and those others took your riches and squandered them but You are giving them love and consideration. The parable is a difficult one and as my Marist Brother scripture teacher says, is probably the most significant of all parables. Many take a long time to fully appreciate what it is saying.

 

[JimR-OCDS]

I pray that the Holy Spirit inspires the Cardinals and that they follow God’s will and not political ideologies at the next synod.

Jim

 

[McCall1981]

Where is the part about the Ghana Bishops urging the Pope ‘to take these hot-button issues off the table’? I read the whole article and the emphasis was on the negative pressures on Ghanaian Catholic families like polygamy or divorce and remarriage if a first wife can’t concieve a child quickly enough or the concept of the equality of men and women in marriage in a male dominated environment.

That report had nothing whatsoever to do with the divorce/remarriage issue as per the Synod and nowhere in the report did the Ghana Bishops urge anything be taken off the table at the Synod.

The part where they said the Church will continue it’s traditional teachings on the hot-button issues, specifically communion for the remarried, and homosexuality.

 

[dans0622]

I thought the purpose of the surveys last year was to find out what Catholics think about different things under this topic. Why start a letter writing campaign amongst ‘activist’ of one side or another to try to shut down the discussion? What am I missing here? It reminds me of a political action committee.

Hello,

The just-concluded Synod’s “purpose is to proclaim the Gospel in the context of the pastoral challenges facing the family today.” The survey’s “series of questions allows the particular Churches to participate actively in the preparation of the Extraordinary Synod.”

It perhaps bears recalling that the survey itself started with questions about how the “Catholic Church’s teachings on the value of the family contained in the Bible,* Gaudium et spes, Familiaris consortio* and other documents of the post-conciliar Magisterium is (sic) understood by people today.” The teaching of the Church on all these issues, it appears, is settled.

Later, the survey had this series of questions:

a) Is cohabitation *ad experimentum *a pastoral reality in your particular Church? Can you approximate a percentage?

b) Do unions which are not recognized either religiously or civilly exist? Are reliable statistics available?

c) Are separated couples and those divorced and remarried a pastoral reality in your particular Church? Can you approximate a percentage? How do you deal with this situation in appropriate pastoral programmes?

d) In all the above cases, how do the baptized live in this irregular situation? Are they aware of it? Are they simply indifferent? Do they feel marginalized or suffer from the impossibility of receiving the sacraments?

e) What questions do divorced and remarried people pose to the Church concerning the Sacraments of the Eucharist and of Reconciliation? Among those persons who find themselves in these situations, how many ask for these sacraments?

f ) Could a simplification of canonical practice in recognizing a declaration of nullity of the marriage bond provide a positive contribution to solving the problems of the persons involved? If yes, what form would it take?

g) Does a ministry exist to attend to these cases? Describe this pastoral ministry? Do such programmes exist on the national and diocesan levels? How is God’s mercy proclaimed to separated couples and those divorced and remarried and how does the Church put into practice her support for them in their journey of faith?

I don’t see anything there which asks for people to say what they think about the “impossibility of receiving the sacraments” for the divorced/“remarried”–it asks how this impossibility impacts the lives of those to whom it pertains. The only real opportunity for people to give (name removed by moderator)ut on changing something regards the nullity process (a rather esoteric topic for the average person in the pew).

I took part in answering the questions in the survey. I didn’t even bother to say much about the “impossibility” noted above… I didn’t see a point to it. It’s impossible. And yet, most of the discussion (in the media/blogosphere/forums and among some prelates) has turned to that issue. I don’t know how or why that happened, given the way the survey was composed.

Cardinal Burke says he doesn’t want these things to be “on the table.” I would tend to agree, since I see no point in talking about something that is “impossible.” But, I would be totally stunned if these things were not discussed again at next year’s Synod. That being the case, I see no problem in suggesting that people continue to make their desires and thoughts known to the hierarchy (c. 212). It is a bit counter-intuitive to say that people doing this are shutting down a discussion. Are the people who think the divorced/“remarried” should be admitted to the Sacraments going to stop talking about it and promoting their view? I doubt it. So, the Cardinal is encouraging people to take an active role.

Quotes taken from vatican.va/roman_curia/synod/documents/rc_synod_doc_20131105_iii-assemblea-sinodo-vescovi_en.html

Dan

 

[LongingSoul]

The part where they said the Church will continue it’s traditional teachings on the hot-button issues, specifically communion for the remarried, and homosexuality.

The report did not say that they were urging the Pope to take those issues off the table. It reiterated the Church teaching as it stands and made no comment on the synod examination of them. There was no criticism of the Pope, the Synod or the questions raised to be looked at. You’ve twisted that article to suit your agenda.

 

[McCall1981]

The report did not say that they were urging the Pope to take those issues off the table. It reiterated the Church teaching as it stands and made no comment on the synod examination of them. There was no criticism of the Pope, the Synod or the questions raised to be looked at. You’ve twisted that article to suit your agenda.

I didn’t say they urged the Pope to do anything, or that they criticized anything.

In a document that is in reference to the Synod, they said that the Church is not going to change it’s position on those issues. That is as much as they are able to do to end the debate, and remove those issues from discussion, which is what I said they did.

 

[LongingSoul]

I didn’t say they urged the Pope to do anything, or that they criticized anything.

In a document that is in reference to the Synod, they said that the Church is not going to change it’s position on those issues. That is as much as they are able to do to end the debate, and remove those issues from discussion, which is what I said they did.

Lol. You are a master of spin.

 

[Peebo]

It’s a pity some Catholics don’t seem to understand …or care,that Jesus Christ promised he would send the Holy Spirit to guide his church…and that the Vicar of Christ (St. Peter) and his successors would have authority to loose and to bind in heaven and on earth…to forgive sins or not to forgive sins…our Pope Francis has that same authority and is being guided by the Holy Spirit as Christ promised…so why don’t you stop putting your own spin…or agenda on issues which you have no authority to do so…you are defying the Holy Spirit at your peril.

 

[pnewton]

Serious Catholics want an aggressive, confident clergy willing to call evil what it is.
Serious Catholics want a clergy that doesn’t care if they are liked by the world.
Serious Catholics want a true shepherd, which means tough love when necessary.
Serious Catholics want preaching of salvation as a tough narrow road, not a highway.

Serious Catholics want a document tough and authoritative enough to make the Bishops at the Council of Trent proud.

Serious Catholics, all in all, are sick of weak leadership.

Serious Catholics want to be liked Jesus in all ways. When I read the Beatitudes, it allows for a much different understanding than what the above describes. Three things remain forever, faith, hope and love. The greatest is love. While love can at times mean we have to be tough, it is most often expressed in humility and mercy.

I am not old enough to have been at Trent. I would assume you are not either.

 

[pnewton]

You are not a Catholic unless you gives your intellectual consent to all 2000 years of infallible Church doctrine.

Is that controversial?

No one is suggesting and abandonment of doctrine. Doctrine is not on the table.

 

[SWolf]

No one is suggesting and abandonment of doctrine. Doctrine is not on the table.

I know, which is why I didn’t say anything of the sort.

 

[pnewton]

I know, which is why I didn’t say anything of the sort.

By the same logic, I will note I never said you did.