Cardinal Wuerl: 'internal forum' not seen by Synod as alternative to annulment process [CC]

[Catholic_Press]

Cardinal Donald Wuerl of Washington, DC, has said that the Synod of Bishops did not approve an “internal forum” to the question of Communion for divorced and remarried Catholics.Cardinal …

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[_Abyssinia]

Cardinal Donald Wuerl of Washington, DC, has said that the Synod of Bishops did not approve an “internal forum” to the question of Communion for divorced and remarried Catholics.

Cardinal Wuerl—who is regarded as close to Pope Francis, and was appointed by the Pontiff to take part in the October 2015 Synod meeting—told the National Catholic Register that the “message of the Church, as a whole on all matters, is one of mercy, not moral indifferentism.” He added that the Synod did not propose “that the internal forum, or other subjective discernment, be a substitute for the objective tribunal process.”

“The synod was clear that in these conversations with a pastor, the person’s discernment could not properly be contrary to the truth and charity of the Gospel as taught by the Church,” the cardinal said.

catholicculture.org/news/headlines/index.cfm?storyid=26869

 

[St_Francis]

Right. No one, especially not the pope, ever suggested an “internal forum” would or could be a* substitute* for the tribunal process.

.

Several German bishops have indeed proposed that, and there are those who believe that the rather vague wording of some of the final points issued by the Synod refer to that precise thing.

 

[gus]

Easy for him to say he won’t be called on to support the children of married priests
or pay for the incentatives needed to triple the number of priest.

From a pragmatic perspective there is no more effecient use of clergy than a celibate priesthood.
I wouldn’t be against ordaining married men over 50 without families especially if they served in the diaconate for at least 10 years,
For those who cite pedifiles , married men actually commit his crime at a higher rate than the priesthood.

 

[Maxirad]

Speaking of Cardinal Wuerl, check this commentary out.

 

[Minion_w_a_drum]

Cardinal Wuerl told the Register) that the Synod recognized an urgent need for proper formation of Catholic couples preparing for marriage. He explained: Following the sometimes-bad catechesis of the ’70s and ’80s, today, most pastors recognize that we are dealing with a generation of people who have a diminished understanding of the faith and therefore appreciation for it. Combine this with secular attitudes which present marriage as temporary, and couples might easily begin to think their marriage has failed. Our response to this challenge must be better preparation before marriage and then continually to reach out after the wedding and lovingly accompany them throughout their journey of married life.

So my question is where does leave these people of the 70’s and 80’ with bad catachesis when they seek an annulment. Two things about my marriage.

1. We dated first on about the first of August. We got engaged in early November. We were married in the Church in March.
   2.In my case in particular, our marriage prep lady told us directly (my x wife was not catholic at time of marriage) that artificial birth control was mostly a personal decision… The church stance was more of a recommendation rather than a directive.
   I blame my x for much, but one thing I’ll never accuse her of is knowing full well what the church required in a marriage, and then blatantly going against it.

Does anyone really believe that either of us had a real understanding of what catholic marriage is??? Certainly, the 2 of us thought we were in love after 3 months. (Now, 25 years later, I realize that was not love. But at the time, I really thought it was…) But don’t you think the church should’ve stepped in at some point and said- “You two cannot possibly be in love after 3 months- not the kind of love necessary for a lifelong catholic marriage. Marriage request denied until you fully understand what you are doing.” That did not happen. What did they do? They obliged the request of my x to shorten the marriage prep time from 6 months to 4 months.
And at the end of this, the church rules in the negative on my annulment application. Classic catholic church, IMO. They accept absolutely no blame or accountability for anything. ANYTHING. The way I see it, the catholic church is only interested in is image and perception. Their motto I " let’s keep the pews full, and all will be good."

 

[Paganus]

Combine this with secular attitudes which present marriage as temporary, and couples might easily begin to think their marriage has failed.

The Church is the only religion that says that marriage is permanent. The belief that marriage can be temporary is not merely “secular”. If the teaching of the Church is not proclaimed from the pulpit, then the faithful will learn about marriage elsewhere and no other source is going to tell them that marriage is always and everywhere permanent.

 

[Minion_w_a_drum]

The Church is the only religion that says that marriage is permanent. The belief that marriage can be temporary is not merely “secular”. If the teaching of the Church is not proclaimed from the pulpit, then the faithful will learn about marriage elsewhere and no other source is going to tell them that marriage is always and everywhere permanent.

This is my point of the above post. IF marriage permanency (among other doctrine and dogma) are not preached from the pulpit and in marriage prep before the marriage, is it right for the church NOT to own up to this at time of annulment? If the church is not going to accurately communicate their stance before the marriage, I simply don’t see how they can then shift blame to the “sheep” who come for an annulment after the divorce.

How can the sheep know proper doctrine and dogma if the church does communicate such, or even worse- add in their own viewpoint during marriage prep? If one is in marriage prep, it should be safe to assume that what you are told is the church’s stance. That isn’t always the case, and it surely was not in my case.

 

[PTL]

In the Sacrament of Holy Matrimony, isn’t there a sentence “till death do we apart” when vows are exchanged? Do the couple say this line with an absent mind?

Also, being a Catholic means one lives the Catholic values as a way of life. No one should learn his faith based on Sunday homily only. Each of us should seek the knowledge of our faith by our own efforts - read the Catechism, read the Gospel, study our faith by attending seminars, reading books, etc… Make no mistake by making excuses.

 

[Horton]

Cardinal Wuerl told the Register) that the Synod recognized an urgent need for proper formation of Catholic couples preparing for marriage. He explained: Following the sometimes-bad catechesis of the ’70s and ’80s, today, most pastors recognize that we are dealing with a generation of people who have a diminished understanding of the faith and therefore appreciation for it. Combine this with secular attitudes which present marriage as temporary, and couples might easily begin to think their marriage has failed. Our response to this challenge must be better preparation before marriage and then continually to reach out after the wedding and lovingly accompany them throughout their journey of married life.

So my question is where does leave these people of the 70’s and 80’ with bad catachesis when they seek an annulment. Two things about my marriage.

1. We dated first on about the first of August. We got engaged in early November. We were married in the Church in March.
   2.In my case in particular, our marriage prep lady told us directly (my x wife was not catholic at time of marriage) that artificial birth control was mostly a personal decision… The church stance was more of a recommendation rather than a directive.
   I blame my x for much, but one thing I’ll never accuse her of is knowing full well what the church required in a marriage, and then blatantly going against it.

Does anyone really believe that either of us had a real understanding of what catholic marriage is??? Certainly, the 2 of us thought we were in love after 3 months. (Now, 25 years later, I realize that was not love. But at the time, I really thought it was…) But don’t you think the church should’ve stepped in at some point and said- “You two cannot possibly be in love after 3 months- not the kind of love necessary for a lifelong catholic marriage. Marriage request denied until you fully understand what you are doing.” That did not happen. What did they do? They obliged the request of my x to shorten the marriage prep time from 6 months to 4 months.
And at the end of this, the church rules in the negative on my annulment application. Classic catholic church, IMO. They accept absolutely no blame or accountability for anything. ANYTHING. The way I see it, the catholic church is only interested in is image and perception. Their motto I " let’s keep the pews full, and all will be good."

Would you have listened? I mean seriously, what is your (and your ex’s) responsibility?

 

[LongingSoul]

In the Sacrament of Holy Matrimony, isn’t there a sentence “till death do we apart” when vows are exchanged? Do the couple say this line with an absent mind?

Also, being a Catholic means one lives the Catholic values as a way of life. No one should learn his faith based on Sunday homily only. Each of us should seek the knowledge of our faith by our own efforts - read the Catechism, read the Gospel, study our faith by attending seminars, reading books, etc… Make no mistake by making excuses.

But knowledge of faith isn’t faith. My old spiritual director is a religious sister who accompanies people in palliative care in a large Catholic hospital. We often talked about end of life things as a result. A generation or couple of generations ago, Catholics in general who were on their deathbed could be noticeably distinguished from non Catholics in how their faith permeated their transition to the afterlife. A faith so deep and lived gives real confidence and leaves not so many regrets on the deathbed.

It’s different today when people can have lived out a whole Catholic life but find a crisis of faith on the deathbed. They often experience regrets about not being the person they should have been in relationships and recognise having living secular values according to the culture they were formed in without much thought.

That level of living faith is recognised by some theologians including Pope Em. Benedict, as being deficient to a whole generation of Catholics and causing grave issues with having to live sacramental marriage.

So just knowing principles of our faith is not enough. We have to live them relentlessly in everything we do and take them on board so as to resist the temptations and values of the secular culture… which tolerates and even lauds sin.

 

[PTL]

So just knowing principles of our faith is not enough. We have to live them relentlessly in everything we do and take them on board so as to resist the temptations and values of the secular culture… which tolerates and even lauds sin.

I totally agree. Knowledge and living are two different things. We must seek knowledge to know our faith then live up to it. These two things are “both and”, not “either or”. It is a fact many Catholics are poor in Catechism. It is up to each individual to seek true knowledge of the faith and live it accordingly.

 

[Minion_w_a_drum]

Would you have listened? I mean seriously, what is your (and your ex’s) responsibility?

What is my responsibility you ask? I should have made a better decision in choosing a mate. I should have waited longer before getting engaged. I should have waited longer before marrying her. I should have not ignored the red flags that popped up in the 7 and a half months between first date and wedding. Those are my mistakes. I admit to them and always have and always will. My punishment?? I will never live in a Catholic marriage again- unless my x happens to assume room temperature. I’ve never ducked my mistakes nor dodged my punishment.

The point of my post was= when a couple in their 20’s comes to the parish office and requests to get married after a 3 month courtship, where is the Church’s accountability?? Are they obligated to marry that couple? What if they don’t think they are ready? What if they think that what the couple has between them is not really love? Or did they really believe that we were in love??? (I shudder at the thought of that) Does the church have people in the position of marriage prep that seriously believe true love can be obtained after 3 months of dating? Do they have people that really believe that 2 people in their 20’s, one who was baptized in a protestant church but never had a church life growing up can really grasp what it means to enter into a Catholic marriage? Or is it as you say- we probably wouldn’t have listened so the church might as well marry them… Wow, is there anything wrong with that???
If the latter is the case, then my opinion of the church has been proven. The organizational church is nothing more than a series of hoops- If you navigate through all the hoops, at the end you get your prize. If you don’t, well “it was nice knowing you!”