Cardinal Wuerl: The Catholic Church is moving from legalism to mercy

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Mongo said:
It doesn’t speak well of the Church, or maybe just the bishop, if he thinks the church is legalistic and isn’t interpreting the gospel correctly. What does he connsider legalistic and what is mercy? Are we to pretend there isn’t any truth? Mercy consists in abandoning truth for kindness?
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If the Church has bee interpreting the gospel incorrectly, including core doctrines, for 2000 years then one must say that the Holy Spirit hasn’t been guiding it for that time. Or else why would He let us fall into error for so long? After all, God is Truth (which does not change) and the Church teaches the Truth. So if the Truth wasn’t really the truth…was God guiding it? Or is he even there?

That’s what abandoning truth means, basically. It basically means "there is no God’.

At the very least it means we were wrong to oppose the CoE. That’s what I feel these Bishops and Priests really want, is for us all to be Episcopaleans now. .
 
“What does the Gospel really say here?” - well the Gospel is pretty harsh according to modern sensibilities. There is a tendency, and a very natural one, to focus on the parts we, no matter our position, like. It is right to always reexamine the Gospel to try our best to fully embrace it. But I don’t think that would rightly lead to the approach many take away from such reexaminations.
dans0622 said:
Fourth, I continue to be mystified by the statements which make it seem that conversation in the Church, about all these issues, was so stifled in the past and is only now, under Pope Francis, possible. My entire adult life (not that long, I guess, but long enough) has been lived in an atmosphere of Catholics, from Bishops on down, saying pretty much whatever they want.
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As a convert my initial thoughts on the Church was that it was a very uniform institution. I imagined the Church enforcing a strict uniformity of belief and practice. As I studied the Church I found it much more diverse, accommodating, and even wild than I could have ever imagined.
 
I thought it was merciful to let someone know they are in sin and danger of hell?

I thought it was merciful to keep someone from committing sacrilege and sin (like taking the Eucharist in mortal sin)?

Is that not mercy anymore?
 
zz912 said:
I thought it was merciful to let someone know they are in sin and danger of hell?

I thought it was merciful to keep someone from committing sacrilege and sin (like taking the Eucharist in mortal sin)?

Is that not mercy anymore?
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Personally, I do believe it is merciful.

I just happen to also believe that there is a very self sacrificing, compassionate, loving and merciful way of going about doing it that we should all be growing in.
 
I’d like to see someone getting a bit “legalistic” about the should-be catechisers catechising. Catechising is a work of - wait for it - mercy.

And about calling a halt to sacraments being made out to be an outer substitute for inner grace.

:mad:
 
I believe there is a reason that so many in the Church, starting with Pope Francis, have turned their attention to propagating the reality of God’s Mercy.

I believe we are living in the Day of Mercy and the world needs to wake-up to that. 🙂
 
:rolleyes:d
dans0622 said:
Hmm… A few head-scratchers here. First, I don’t see the Cardinal uttering the words “the Catholic Church is moving from legalism to mercy.” I doubt he would ever say such a thing.
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He is not quoted as saying those words, but he is quoted as saying the following:

“I’ve had priests say to me that the pope is really just affirming what most of us already know in our hearts we are supposed to be doing anyway.”

How do most people already know in their hearts what they are supposed to be doing? The Canon Law is…law. By definition, to look only to any law, including Canon Law, is legalism.
dans0622 said:
Secondly, to say that the Synod document “succeeded in giving Pope Francis a document that offers him significant new flexibility” is nonsense theologically, biblically, canonically, … everythingally.
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Why is this comment by the cardinal nonsense?
dans0622 said:
Third, the Cardinal says “The frame of reference now is no longer the Code of Canon Law.” I wonder, when was it ever the frame of reference for anything? Even a canon lawyer like me would say, when it comes to Catholic belief and practice, the Catechism of the Catholic Church is the “frame of reference.” Legal processes, sure, that’s the purview of the Code but nobody was even talking about that at the synod (as far as I know…since the Pope pretty much preempted that discussion back in September).
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Is not the code of Canon Law the reference for proceedings under that law? Are not marriage cases heard and judgments of the validity of marriages judged under Canon Law?
dans0622 said:
Fourth, I continue to be mystified by the statements which make it seem that conversation in the Church, about all these issues, was so stifled in the past and is only now, under Pope Francis, possible. My entire adult life (not that long, I guess, but long enough) has been lived in an atmosphere of Catholics, from Bishops on down, saying pretty much whatever they want.

Dan
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If that is so, why do we see comments to the effect that the openness that the cardinal has suggested is maybe not such a good thing?
 
A very long time ago an elderly Franciscan priest told me that it is always better to err on the side of mercy rather than justice. Our Lord would never hold it against anyone for being too merciful.
 
I think even Shakespeare would agree.
The quality of mercy is not strained;
It droppeth as the gentle rain from heaven
Upon the place beneath. It is twice blest;
It blesseth him that gives and him that takes:
‘T is mightiest in the mightiest; it becomes
The throned monarch better than his crown:
His sceptre shows the force of temporal power,
The attribute to awe and majesty,
Wherein doth sit the dread and fear of kings;
But mercy is above this sceptred sway;
It is enthronèd in the hearts of kings,
It is an attribute to God himself;
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  • Merchant of Venice
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We had to memorize this when I was in high school.
 
From Ed Peters’ canon law blog:

“Rather, I’ll just say this: canon law has always seen itself in service to the Church, huge tracts of canon law rest directly on biblical foundations and doctrinal assertions made by the Magisterium over the centuries; canon law is always in need of reform (just ask any canon lawyer), and finally, that some people railing against canon law need to ask themselves whether it is law they don’t like, or the truths such laws defend.”

canonlawblog.wordpress.com/2015/10/28/canon-law-has-never-been-the-frame-of-reference-for-the-church/

Mr. Peter’s thinks the Church might be suffering through another round of antinomianism. I had to look up that word, but it means something like this: it’s the idea that we don’t have to follow the moral law if we believe that our hearts are in the right place.
 
Vic_Taltrees_UK said:
I’d like to see someone getting a bit “legalistic” about the should-be catechisers catechising. Catechising is a work of - wait for it - mercy.

And about calling a halt to sacraments being made out to be an outer substitute for inner grace.

:mad:
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Catechesis means instruction.

Where does the Catechism (or Canon Law, or the Magisterium, or doctrine) say that, in order to be merciful, adulterers and homosexual couples must be or even may be admitted to the Eucharist? In the Roman Catholic Church, that’s correctly identified as sacrilege, not mercy.
 
Vic_Taltrees_UK said:
:bighanky:
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***Some revelations of Jesus to Saint Faustina:

You will prepare the world for My final coming. (Diary 429)

Speak to the world about My mercy … It is a sign for the end times. After it will come the Day of Justice. While there is still time, let them have recourse to the fountain of My mercy. (Diary 848)

Tell souls about this great mercy of Mine, because the awful day, the day of My justice, is near. (Diary 965).

I am prolonging the time of mercy for the sake of sinners. But woe to them if they do not recognize this time of My visitation. (Diary 1160)

Before the Day of Justice, I am sending the Day of Mercy. (Diary 1588)

He who refuses to pass through the door of My mercy must pass through the door of My justice. (Diary 1146).***

You have to speak to the world about His great mercy and prepare the world for the Second Coming of Him who will come, not as a merciful Savior, but as a just Judge. Oh how terrible is that day! Determined is the day of justice, the day of divine wrath. The angels tremble before it. Speak to souls about this great mercy while it is still the time for granting mercy. (Diary 635)
 
Vic_Taltrees_UK said:
:bighanky:
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:crying::crying::crying:

There was a time when I thought mercy was a very beautiful and powerful word, not to mention the core of the Christian faith (as it of course still is and always has been). That was approximately 1,456,302 times back of hearing it praised though - and twisted into alien contexts where it can never survive.

In common currency it is not much more than cant these days. Very sad indeed. :o
 
irishpatrick said:
***Some revelations of Jesus to Saint Faustina:

You will prepare the world for My final coming. (Diary 429)

Speak to the world about My mercy … It is a sign for the end times. After it will come the Day of Justice. While there is still time, let them have recourse to the fountain of My mercy. (Diary 848)

Tell souls about this great mercy of Mine, because the awful day, the day of My justice, is near. (Diary 965).

I am prolonging the time of mercy for the sake of sinners. But woe to them if they do not recognize this time of My visitation. (Diary 1160)

Before the Day of Justice, I am sending the Day of Mercy. (Diary 1588)

He who refuses to pass through the door of My mercy must pass through the door of My justice. (Diary 1146).***
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In short, either take advantage of my mercy now to help you stop sinning or face my justice later.
 
KSU said:
In short, either take advantage of my mercy now to help you stop sinning or face my justice later.
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Yes.

I will add that the emphasis on God’s Mercy over the last 15 years, and Pope Francis’ emphasis on the same, may very well point to the end of the Day of Mercy.
 
ProVobis said:
I think even Shakespeare would agree.

Quote:
The quality of mercy is not strained;

It droppeth as the gentle rain from heaven

Upon the place beneath. It is twice blest;

It blesseth him that gives and him that takes:

‘T is mightiest in the mightiest; it becomes

The throned monarch better than his crown:

His sceptre shows the force of temporal power,

The attribute to awe and majesty,

Wherein doth sit the dread and fear of kings;

But mercy is above this sceptred sway;

It is enthronèd in the hearts of kings,

It is an attribute to GOD himself;
  • Merchant of Venice
We had to memorize this when I was in high school.
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Dear Pro Vobis,

I love what you posted above. Thank you! And yes, I agree that even Shakespeare would agree as well:thumbsup:

God bless you!

+PAX:)

** “It is better that scandals arise than the truth be suppressed.”
Pope St. Gregory the Great **
 
dans0622 said:
Fourth, I continue to be mystified by the statements which make it seem that conversation in the Church, about all these issues, was so stifled in the past and is only now, under Pope Francis, possible. My entire adult life (not that long, I guess, but long enough) has been lived in an atmosphere of Catholics, from Bishops on down, saying pretty much whatever they want.
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I don’t find this quite so mystifying. Those in the Church (the hierarchy, the laymen, folks here on CAF…) are fond of noting that certain conversations are closed and that there’s no need to revisit certain topics. But this kind of response doesn’t always seem to lend itself to open dialogue. And I’d wager that, for example, the divorced and remarried fell into this category in the past.
 
FollowChrist34 said:
:crying::crying::crying:

There was a time when I thought mercy was a very beautiful and powerful word, not to mention the core of the Christian faith (as it of course still is and always has been). That was approximately 1,456,302 times back of hearing it praised though - and twisted into alien contexts where it can never survive.

In common currency it is not much more than cant these days. Very sad indeed. :o
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I feel the same way about the term “the truth”.
 
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