Caring for the poor

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Lemuel

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I know this topic has been beat to death more than once but I just have a simple question that nobody has ever answered for me. There’s no question in my mind that we are supposed to care for the poor and I hope that when I stand before my Maker one day, I can do so with a clear conscience. I believe I can. But where I disagree with a lot of people, even a number of Catholics who say my beliefs conflict with the Church, is this. I believe it is noble and just to give to the needy according to my will and conscience. I believe it is pure evil to force others to do it. I don’t believe that God forces us to do good. I think laws that take money forcefully from one to give to another are vile. I will never support such laws.

So my question is this. Where in the scriptures, anywhere, did Jesus teach us to force our neighbor to care for the poor and needy?
 
I give you the Catechism (LOL if you can read this):

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Yeah I’ve read that before. I was hoping you could address the question.
 
Footnote 45 is Romans 13:7. The quote, “Pay to all of them their dues…”

Taxes are a legal requirement as well as a spiritual one. Some taxes directly benefit us, some don’t. But we’re obligated to pay them if we’re subject to them.

 
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Sorry but I fail to see in that scripture Jesus telling me that I should compel my brother to give his money to the poor.
 
Then you fail to see that we’re obligated to pay taxes. You’re not compelling anyone. You’re following the law - and that law says you must pay taxes, some of which go to social welfare.

You and I are one bad day away from being that poor person. Thank God for the taxes I pay - they pay my salary now, and I hope they never pay anything else directly to me.

They pay the sheriff’s departments, county and city fire departments, police, schools, roads…and welfare programs. How is that you compelling your neighbor to do anything? That’s the law telling us.
 
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And where and when are we forcing others to care for the poor ?

Jim
 
We all know the famous saying of Jesus on giving to Caesar what is Caesar’s. But what is Caesar supposed to do with it? The whole point of public authority is to serve the common good. Taxes, therefore can be levied justly as essentially payment for that service to the common good provided.

Take a common example: the government may use taxes to fix potholes in a road. No one objects to this–it obviously serves the common good. Further, I am not being treated unjustly if I never drive on that road so long as I have the same potential for service if the road I drive on were to develop potholes.

The same can be said of public insurance programs that the government provides for periods of disability, old-age, or unemployment. As long as we all have the potential to benefit from it if we fall on hard times, there is no injustice.

What would be unjust would be the forcible redistribution of wealth as its own end–simply, say, to equalize everyone. Distributive justice would also be violated if taxes were levied strictly to benefit some, without the potential to benefit the common good. Finally, the state cannot exhaust public wealth–it can’t completely absorb private property.

All that being said, given the principle of subsidiarity, as much as is possible all these things should be taken care of at the lowest unit of society that can practically serve the purpose.
 
I said nothing about obeying the laws. I asked for a scripture where Jesus says we should compel others to care for the poor. I’m still waiting.
 
Do you have a problem paying taxes for wars and corporate welfare programs ?

Jim
 
I’m against most wars too, but also understand that having a strong military, prevents us from being invaded.

Helping the poor through taxation, I have no problem with unless the system gets abused and it has in various cases.

So, correct those situations, but don’t end helping the poor.

Mostly, be grateful that you or your family don’t require help from the government. It’s not a luxurious life as some seem to think.

Jim
 
Lemuel said:
I said nothing about obeying the laws. I asked for a scripture where Jesus says we should compel others to care for the poor. I’m still waiting.
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I’m just not sure what difference it makes. If you don’t like where taxes go, then vote for change. That’s how it’s set up in the US - social welfare comes out of the tax base. We’re compelled to pay taxes, legally and spiritually. The US says that’s where social welfare comes from, so that’s where it comes from.
JimR-OCDS said:
Mostly, be grateful that you or your family don’t require help from the government. It’s not a luxurious life as some seem to think.
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Yeah really.
 
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Then by my assessment, you have little grounds on which to complain about how tax dollars are spent if you’re not even moved enough to rally for change.

This will end my participation here, because I don’t see the logic in your stance. I guess I take my Constitutional rights too seriously.
 
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I guess so.

BTW, there’s no such thing as constitutional rights. My rights come from God, not from a piece of paper.
 
As far as complaining goes, those who voluntarily participate in a corrupt game are morally bound to accept the outcome of the game they participated in. Those who refused to participate are in the best position to complain as we did not agree to it in the first place.
 
Huh? Most of us do live a luxurious life, compared to the rest of the world. Taxes pay for those roads we walk and drive on, help support the water we drink, and even help pay for those who work to enforce the laws that keep our air clean. Taxes pay the salaries of our law enforcement and other first responders who are ready when there is a fire, accident, or other need in our communities. All of us who pay taxes benefit from them.
 
Lemuel said:
I said nothing about obeying the laws. I asked for a scripture where Jesus says we should compel others to care for the poor. I’m still waiting.
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No, you’re not still waiting. You just don’t like the answer. It’s done through taxes, which are a matter of law, and Jesus told us to obey the law.
 
(1) What country are you from?

(2) Let’s be sure our principles are not politically-motivated.

(3) Catholics aren’t sola scriptura Christians, so just because Jesus never explicitly and directly commands something in the Bible does not mean it’s morally neutral.

(4) I’m not sure where you are from, but at least in the USA, taxes are used for a variety of reasons. But some of those are to legitimately help the poor.

(5) It’s not either/or – either directly help the poor, or give taxes for the state to help. Part of the existence of the state is to serve the common good, and serving the common good is part of Catholic social teaching.

(6) It’s simply a fact that some people’s only mode of living, of shelter, of food, of relief, of health care comes from the government.
 
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