Carm.org claims Catholics are not Christian

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You will rarely, if ever, convince the people at CARM that Catholics are Christian . It’s a complete waste of time. There are many other opportunities for one to discuss religious differences rationally and in Christian charity. Avoid the site like the plague and concentrate on where you can make a difference, or at least charitable dialogue.

And if you are interested in evangelization or apologetics, CARM isn’t the place to practice.

Pray for them.
 
zz912 said:
CARM is a particularly vile website, who are afraid of real debate or discussion on their forums. Their theology is puddle-deep and they get very upset when you start poking holes into their made-up theology. They tell half-truths and falsehoods about the Christian faith, proclaiming their particular version is the correct one.

Even the most polite and humble Catholic apologist won’t last long on there before they get banned for posting things that they can’t refute.

If you can stomach them, more power to you. I’ve quoted direct sections of the Catechism showing explicit Catholic teaching, and they will ignore it completely and restate their false claim of what we teach. It’s pathetic.

You can be certain of one thing, they don’t have the fullness of the Christian faith, because they are afraid of the truth. They can’t even admit truthfully what the Catholic Church teaches. It’s one thing to disagree with something we believe, it’s entirely another to refuse to admit what we actually teach (and not the bastardized version they’ve created). Christians follow He who IS Truth. So if a Christian is afraid of the truth, they aren’t following Jesus.
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Yep. Well said especially about the part where they are afraid of the truth.

Mary.
 
Well, I’m happy to say that dear husband has been doing a pretty good job defending our Catholic faith at CARM . He just debates with so much reason that he leaves them blank , but they obviously do not accept it and instead of debating, they insult. But you know, hubby is there because it is also fun for him. It is hard to explain. He just enjoys putting them on the spot. That’s why he has been absent from CAF for quite a long time . His name is CatholicScripture there.
 
Okay, there is no easy way of saying this…
But, here goes…avoid places were crazy people hang out.
There, I said it.
A casual reading of the threads there reveals many of the posters are suffering from some type of mental illness. Specifically what, I’m not qualified to say. These are the type of people who will stalk you online, try to find your personal info, and if they can, try to contact you.
I’ve seen it happen. I personally had it happen to me. One of the reasons I don’t have a blog anymore. I know of one person on CAF who has his own stalker.
Do what you want, but its best to stay away from websites like that. Religious fanatics are unstable…and can be dangerous as well.
Just some advice.
 
7_Sorrows said:
oh I have hesrd of Wittenberg Trail. What religion is Matt Slick of CARM?
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Here’s how he describes himself;

Finally, in short, I am a five point calvinist, amillennial, post-trib rapture, pseudo-baptistic (not for salvation), non-cessationist, and covenantal. I do not break fellowship with anyone who holds to the essentials of the faith (i.e., the Trinity, the Deity of Christ, Jesus’ Physical Resurrection, Virgin Birth, Salvation by Grace through Faith alone, Monotheism, and the Gospel being the death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus) but does not affirm Calvinist Theology in the non-essentials. I strongly believe that God’s grace and mercy are so extensive that within the Christian community there is a wide range of beliefs and as long as the essentials are not violated, then anyone who holds to those essentials but differs in the non-essentials is my brother or sister in Christ.

carm.org/what-i-believe-matt-slick more at link…
 
Kliska said:
Here’s how he describes himself;

Finally, in short, I am a five point calvinist, amillennial, post-trib rapture, pseudo-baptistic (not for salvation), non-cessationist, and covenantal. I do not break fellowship with anyone who holds to the essentials of the faith (i.e., the Trinity, the Deity of Christ, Jesus’ Physical Resurrection, Virgin Birth, Salvation by Grace through Faith alone, Monotheism, and the Gospel being the death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus) but does not affirm Calvinist Theology in the non-essentials. I strongly believe that God’s grace and mercy are so extensive that within the Christian community there is a wide range of beliefs and as long as the essentials are not violated, then anyone who holds to those essentials but differs in the non-essentials is my brother or sister in Christ.

carm.org/what-i-believe-matt-slick more at link…
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thanks!
 
7_Sorrows said:
oh I have hesrd of Wittenberg Trail. What religion is Matt Slick of CARM?
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The Trail is nice because it has quite a few pastors who respond.

Matt Slick is a hard-core Calvinist with quasi-Charistmatic leanings. His misunderstandings of the Sacraments (he thinks Baptism only saves if you have enough faith to make it work) puts him far, far away from Lutherans. Lutherans believe, like Catholics, that Baptism is the work of the Holy Spirit (not men) and that God graces us with faith through Baptism. Basically, he’s all about covenants and “making a decision to follow Christ,” when it’s really God choosing us. CARM doesn’t outright say it, but read through the lines and it’s decidedly Reformed.
 
zz912 said:
CARM is a particularly vile website, who are afraid of real debate or discussion on their forums. Their theology is puddle-deep and they get very upset when you start poking holes into their made-up theology. They tell half-truths and falsehoods about the Christian faith, proclaiming their particular version is the correct one.

Even the most polite and humble Catholic apologist won’t last long on there before they get banned for posting things that they can’t refute.

If you can stomach them, more power to you. I’ve quoted direct sections of the Catechism showing explicit Catholic teaching, and they will ignore it completely and restate their false claim of what we teach. It’s pathetic.

You can be certain of one thing, they don’t have the fullness of the Christian faith, because they are afraid of the truth. They can’t even admit truthfully what the Catholic Church teaches. It’s one thing to disagree with something we believe, it’s entirely another to refuse to admit what we actually teach (and not the bastardized version they’ve created). Christians follow He who IS Truth. So if a Christian is afraid of the truth, they aren’t following Jesus.
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What he said.
I was on CARM for a while. You would have a tough time finding a more hateful and pompous bunch anywhere on the net.
 
=jas84173;13207462]They claim because we venerate Mary and pray to her and saints that we undermine Christ. I have heard protestant groups say we aren’t Christian many times for reasons like this, we are blasted for idolatry in our churches and pagan rituals etc. To many Protestant groups the Catholic church is just as Christian as Mormons or Jehovah’s Witnesses… How do we respond to this?
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AND THEY ARE WONG! why?

They presume in error that we Catholics “worship Mary” and the Saints; when in FACT the term “Worship” is reserved to God ALONE:)🙂

We Catholics MAY reverence Mary, honor Mary, respect Mary, BUT NOT "worship Her. Prayer to [ACTUALLY - THROUGH Her] are always intended to END with Christ. The term is “intercessory prayer”; and is AN OPTION, not a command with in the RCC

2674 Mary gave her consent in faith at the Annunciation and maintained it without hesitation at the foot of the Cross. Ever since, her motherhood has extended to the brothers and sisters of her Son “who still journey on earth surrounded by dangers and difficulties.” Jesus, the only mediator, is the way of our prayer; Mary, his mother and ours, is wholly transparent to him: she “shows the way” (hodigitria), and is herself “the Sign” of the way, according to the traditional iconography of East and West.

CCC #2135 “You shall worship the Lord your God” (Mt 4:10). Adoring God, praying to him, offering him the worship that belongs to him, fulfilling the promises and vows made to him are acts of the virtue of religion which fall under obedience to the first commandment.

CCC #2105 The duty of offering God genuine worship concerns man both individually and socially. This is “the traditional Catholic teaching on the moral duty of individuals and societies toward the true religion and the one Church of Christ.” By constantly evangelizing men, the Church works toward enabling them “to infuse the Christian spirit into the mentality and mores, laws and structures of the communities in which [they] live.” The social duty of Christians is to respect and awaken in each man the love of the true and the good. It requires them to make known the worship of the one true religion which subsists in the Catholic and apostolic Church. Christians are called to be the light of the world. Thus, the Church shows forth the kingship of Christ over all creation and in particular over human societies…

CCC #2136 The duty to offer God authentic worship concerns man both as an individual and as a social being

We are invited and and able to “use” Mary to intercede for us as their is no more of a POWERFUL and effective INTERCESSOR 👍

God Bless you & May May be ever on our lios and ever in our hearts as SHE can and DOES lead Souls to Her Son! Amen

PJM
Patrick
 
steido01 said:
The Trail is nice because it has quite a few pastors who respond.

Matt Slick is a hard-core Calvinist with quasi-Charistmatic leanings. His misunderstandings of the Sacraments (he thinks Baptism only saves if you have enough faith to make it work) puts him far, far away from Lutherans. Lutherans believe, like Catholics, that Baptism is the work of the Holy Spirit (not men) and that God graces us with faith through Baptism. Basically, he’s all about covenants and “making a decision to follow Christ,” when it’s really God choosing us. CARM doesn’t outright say it, but read through the lines and it’s decidedly Reformed.
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I get emails from CARM. I think I joined a long time ago, but never really figured out how to navigate the website so I have never been back. sounds like it is for the best.
 
jas84173 said:
They claim because we venerate Mary and pray to her and saints that we undermine Christ. I have heard protestant groups say we aren’t Christian many times for reasons like this, we are blasted for idolatry in our churches and pagan rituals etc. To many Protestant groups the Catholic church is just as Christian as Mormons or Jehovah’s Witnesses… How do we respond to this?
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They are a bunch of nuts
 
Reading the CARM site and thinking about what they say gives me a serious headache. Math is a whole lot easier for me to understand. Everyone agrees that the Pythagorean theorem is true in Euclidean geometry and as well, the other theorems are crystal clear. The CARM site lists several different religions and gives its take on each one of them. Further they give their interpretation of various Bible passages. What gives me a headache is the outrageous fact that these various religions or ecclesial communities all hold different views and each one claims to be correct and claims that all of the others are false in one way or another. And they are holding their beliefs strongly. CARM has a whole lot of other views besides the claim that many Catholics are not Christians. (They do say that some Catholics may be Christians). Many of their views are opposite to what the Roman Catholic Church teaches and of course some contradict the teachings of other religions.
 
E_7 said:
Well, I’m happy to say that dear husband has been doing a pretty good job defending our Catholic faith at CARM . He just debates with so much reason that he leaves them blank , but they obviously do not accept it and instead of debating, they insult. But you know, hubby is there because it is also fun for him. It is hard to explain. He just enjoys putting them on the spot. That’s why he has been absent from CAF for quite a long time . His name is CatholicScripture there.
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Well, God bless his soul! I’ll have to look for him there. 😃
 
SyroMalankara said:
Depends on the particular group, their claims and if they are open to reason and logical dialogue. Some are unapproachable, they will answer you with a laundry list of claims presented as fact and challenge and assertion with their voice as the voice of God.
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And, when the latter happens you just have to walk politely away and say a prayer for them.
 
zz912 said:
CARM is a particularly vile website, who are afraid of real debate or discussion on their forums. Their theology is puddle-deep and they get very upset when you start poking holes into their made-up theology. They tell half-truths and falsehoods about the Christian faith, proclaiming their particular version is the correct one.

Even the most polite and humble Catholic apologist won’t last long on there before they get banned for posting things that they can’t refute.

If you can stomach them, more power to you. I’ve quoted direct sections of the Catechism showing explicit Catholic teaching, and they will ignore it completely and restate their false claim of what we teach. It’s pathetic.

You can be certain of one thing, they don’t have the fullness of the Christian faith, because they are afraid of the truth. They can’t even admit truthfully what the Catholic Church teaches. It’s one thing to disagree with something we believe, it’s entirely another to refuse to admit what we actually teach (and not the bastardized version they’ve created). Christians follow He who IS Truth. So if a Christian is afraid of the truth, they aren’t following Jesus.
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My personal favorite was one commenter who said he counted 2865 “must believes.” If you’re wondering where he got that number, that’s the exact number of paragraphs in the Catechism.

My other favorite is how they have an entire section on logical fallacies, including circular reasoning. Here’s the exact quote:
Begging the Question–Assuming the thing to be true that you are trying to prove. It is circular.
Example: God exists because the Bible says so. The Bible is inspired. Therefore, we know that God exists.
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Also on the site is how they know the Bible is inspired. Apparently they don’t realize using the Bible to prove the Bible is inspired is “begging the question.”

Their section titled “Questions for Roman Catholics” is also a good guide to helping us understand problems outsiders have with our faith. There are a couple questions I can’t answer, and I haven’t been able to find the answers anywhere.

If someone here knows the answer, please let me know! Here they are:
  • When Jesus instituted the supper, He had not yet been crucified. How then was the Eucharist His crucified body and blood?
  • How is it possible for the Eucharist to be the actualy body and blood of Christ if–by definition–a human body is only in one place at one time as Jesus’ body was in the incarnation, especially when you realize that Jesus is still a man (1 Tim. 2:5, Col. 2:9).
 
CARM is a waste of time. Their forums are moderated by people who post as well, so if they don’t like what you say, you get nailed with an infraction. I was actually “lucky” enough to have Matt Slick himself engage me once on that site, and when he couldn’t answer my question (I wanted to know where in the Bible the “essentials” were, otherwise they constitute a man-made construct, thereby blowing his sola scriptura straight out the water) I got booted. I didn’t say anything mean, I just asked him a question that he should have been able to answer. I went there 6, maybe 7 times in total, and getting kicked off is the best thing that happened to me. I love a good debate, but that’s not what they’re about. They are only for themselves, and anyone who is Catholic (or any other brand of faith) is going to be railed on personally, and the second you stand up for yourself or bring a shred of logic to the table, you’ll be kicked off. Do yourself a favor, spend your time going through the articles here at CA, not wasting time on a bunch of knucklehead keyboard warriors.
 
CatholicHockey7 said:
There are a couple questions I can’t answer, and I haven’t been able to find the answers anywhere.

If someone here knows the answer, please let me know! Here they are:
  • When Jesus instituted the supper, He had not yet been crucified. How then was the Eucharist His crucified body and blood?
  • How is it possible for the Eucharist to be the actualy body and blood of Christ if–by definition–a human body is only in one place at one time as Jesus’ body was in the incarnation, especially when you realize that Jesus is still a man (1 Tim. 2:5, Col. 2:9).
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Here’s my answer:
It is not for us to question what the Lord commands. He said it IS His body. He said it IS His blood. Do they question exactly how God created the universe? No, they don’t. They accept that He did. We don’t need to know the exact method He used. This is what faith is all about. Have they no faith?

Haven’t these “Doubting Thomases” heard that Jesus is God? That He is eternal? That He is, from the beginning, with God? That He is the Alpha and Omega? Nothing is beyond the power of the Eternal God. His crucifixion is eternal, stretching out in time back to the Alpha, and forward in time to the Omega. It encompasses all of time for all eternity. This is how we can re-present the cross every Mass. His sacrifice is eternal. Stop thinking with human reasoning. This is beyond our minds to comprehend.
 
boomerang said:
Here’s my answer:
It is not for us to question what the Lord commands. He said it IS His body. He said it IS His blood. Do they question exactly how God created the universe? No, they don’t. They accept that He did. We don’t need to know the exact method He used. This is what faith is all about. Have they no faith?

Haven’t these “Doubting Thomases” heard that Jesus is God? That He is eternal? That He is, from the beginning, with God? That He is the Alpha and Omega? Nothing is beyond the power of the Eternal God. His crucifixion is eternal, stretching out in time back to the Alpha, and forward in time to the Omega. It encompasses all of time for all eternity. This is how we can re-present the cross every Mass. His sacrifice is eternal. Stop thinking with human reasoning. This is beyond our minds to comprehend.
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My problem with this kind of response (not that I don’t agree, because I do) is that there are things we can deduce using human reasoning. So why is it I can logically conclude God exists absent any faith or scriptural evidence, but not how he can give us his flesh before being crucified or how his body can continue to be in multiple places at the same time?
 
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