Cartoons are bad but bombs are Ok?

[SAINThoodSEEKER]

Our central disagreement seems to be what the original teachings of the Qu’ran were. I do not trust many of the interpretations that you have presented because many have been developed over the past 14 centuries whenever and however convenient to Islam’s ultimate end. From a logical standpoint, it seems hard to get around the idea of violence being used as a central tool to Islamic expansion. Muhammed, we know, was illiterate, as were most of his followers. They were mainly nomadic, bedouin, herders who dropped everything (including any previous morals) to pursue the carnal delights of Muhammed’s so-called “heaven”. They were rather easily persuaded. Bloodshed, rape, and seizure of property (including women and children) were believed to be all part of Muslim providence. Muslims throughout their history have sacked France, Spain, Rome, Northern Africa (once the land converted by St. Augustine and St. Cyprean), etc. These bloody conquests were not by way of “self-defense”. All of these acts, along with the ideals of polygamy, owning of slaves, incest, etc., were all the product of convenient “revelation” by Muhammed along their religious escapades. If you want a solid historic perspective coupled with an analysis by way of Scripure, philosophy (CCC), and honest, politically incorrect history, then I suggest Tim Staple’s audio presentation Islam Exposed. There are even materials presented from anonymous (because of fear of punishment!) Muslim (some of them former Muslim) scholars who agree with what I have presented (actually that is one of my main sources). I personally trust the Church sources above all. I am skeptical of secular press and the like. Also, you may want to check out Crossing the Treshold of Hope by our late Holy Father, Pope John Paul II.

“The truth is not always the same as the majority decision.” - Pope John Paul II]

“Beware the man of one book.” - St. Thomas Aquainis

 

[inJESUS]

in my opinion, who cares how islam was spread? it was clearly spread by the sword and muslims keep wishing to give a rosy picture…nevermind…being a satanic cult as per Bible, i just don’t care a bit about its spreading coz the king of this world is powerful…THE REAL ISSUE IS THIS : if muslims insist that their religion is peaceful, then they should issue a public fatwa put on tv, internet, radio, conferences, media , whatever, stating that non-muslims should not be killed, they can preach freely in muslim coutries and build churches and that non-moslems should not live according to sharia law…just how the muslims are treated in civilized countries…until they do this, no one will buy their goody-goody intentions.

Side note : if the core of islam is peace, then what on earth is killing the apostates for??

 

[inJESUS]

Sainthoodseaker :

“Beware the man of one book.” - St. Thomas Aquainis

 

[SAINThoodSEEKER]

Well said. I’ll leave on that note…physics study time!!! God Bless All…Out.



“To one who has faith, no explanation is necessary. To one without faith, no explanation is possible.” -St. Thomas Aquainis

InJesus, this describes you…I mean, as one “who has faith”

 

[SAINThoodSEEKER]

inJESUS:

Sainthoodseaker :

“Beware the man of one book.” - St. Thomas Aquainis



true

 

[inJESUS]

SAINThoodSEEKER:

Well said. I’ll leave on that note…physics study time!!! God Bless All…Out.



“To one who has faith, no explanation is necessary. To one without faith, no explanation is possible.” -St. Thomas Aquainis

InJesus, this describes you…I mean, as one “who has faith”

good luck in your studies i hate physics and thx for the quote…beautiful .

 

[MrS]

inJESUS:

show me this in the Bible…“give me your proof if you are truthful”.

You say this a lot… and I notice that your request is often overlooked

Perhaps that is because Christians know that the Bible is NOT the only source of Truth… it supports or witnesses to the Truth, for that is its purpose.

 

[inJESUS]

MrS:

inJESUS:

You say this a lot… and I notice that your request is often overlooked

Perhaps that is because Christians know that the Bible is NOT the only source of Truth… it supports or witnesses to the Truth, for that is its purpose.

well the phrase " give me your proof if you are truthful" is taken from the quran, just to delight our muslim brother Pro-Universal…

yes it is overlooked coz when they say : Christians killed…i tell them : based on what teachings? so they shut up…a Christian according to Jesus is known by his fruit.

Amen to the last sentence !

Jesus’ peace and Blessings.

 

[inJESUS]

By the way , look at this sentence :

if you leave islam you will be killed …

This is an anti-Biblical commandmant, anti- Jesus and anti-humanity…

it is a satanic tactic…it is satan who tries his best to keep hold of your soul

 

[inJESUS]

Sahih muslim hadith:

When you meet your enemies who are polytheists, invite them to three courses of action. If they respond to any one of these, you also accept it and withold yourself from doing them any harm. Invite them to (accept) Islam; if they respond to you, accept it from them and desist from fighting against them. Then invite them to migrate from their lands to the land of Muhairs and inform them that, if they do so, they shall have all the privileges and obligations of the Muhajirs. If they refuse to migrate, tell them that they will have the status of Bedouin Muilims and will be subjected to the Commands of Allah like other Muslims, but they will not get any share from the spoils of war or Fai’ except when they actually fight with the Muslims (against the disbelievers). If they refuse to accept Islam, demand from them the Jizya. If they agree to pay, accept it from them and hold off your hands. If they refuse to pay the tax, seek Allah’s help and fight them. When you lay siege to a fort and the besieged appeal to you for protection in the name of Allah and His Prophet, do not accord to them the guarantee of Allah and His Prophet, but accord to them your own guarantee and the guarantee of your companions for it is a lesser sin that the security given by you or your companions be disregarded than that the security granted in the name of Allah and His Prophet be violated When you besiege a fort and the besieged want you to let them out in accordance with Allah’s Command, do not let them come out in accordance with His Command, but do so at your (own) command, for you do not know whether or not you will be able to carry out Allah’s behest with regard to them.

Do we have real choice? no…either islam or jizya or they keep fighting us.

 

[pro_universal]

. Muslims throughout their history have sacked France, Spain, Rome, Northern Africa (once the land converted by St. Augustine and St. Cyprean), etc. These bloody conquests were not by way of “self-defense”. All of these acts, along with the ideals of polygamy, owning of slaves, incest, etc., were all the product of convenient “revelation” by Muhammed along their religious escapades. If you want a solid historic perspective coupled with an analysis by way of Scripure, philosophy (CCC), and honest, politically incorrect history, then I suggest Tim Staple’s audio presentation Islam Exposed.

I suggest less controversial points: If you want to learn about physics, go ask a physicist. If you want to learn history, you ask a historian. And if you want to learn about islam, ask a muslim.

As for the Catechism of the Church, please reference CCC 841.

The conquests of the muslims were actually welcomed in most parts, since the eastern christians were brutal and did not allow anything but the belief of the emperor. Spain itself flowered under muslim rule, and allowed Jews to live in peace…until the reconquista.

If we hate muslims so much that we forget our own sins, we are doomed to hypocrisy and repetition.

 

[BryPGuy89]

Marquette:

I will quote John Hagee from his book Jerusalem Countdown, published by Frontline Publishing, 2006:

"Let’s turn our investigation toward American Islamics. Historian Daniel Pipes, writing for Commentary magazine’s Nov. 2001 issue, recorded the following:

“In June 1991, a convert to Islam, Siraj Wahaj, a recipient of the American Muslim community’s highest honors, had the privelege of becoming the first Muslim to deliver the daily prayer in the U.S. House of Representatives. On that occasion he recited from the Quran and appealed to the almighty to guide American leaders and to ‘grant them righteousness and wisdom.’”

“But the story about Siraj Whaj did not end there. A little over a year later, this same Muslim, addressing an audience of New Jersey Muslims, 'articulated a completely different message from his mild and moderate prayer given before the U.S. House. He said, ‘If only Muslims were more clever politically, they could TAKE OVER the United States and replace its constitutional government with a caliphate (Islamic leadership body). If we were united and strong, we would elect our own leader and give allegiance to him…Take my word, if the six or eight million Muslims in America unite, the country will come to us.’”

To further quote John Hagee: “Think about THAT when you hear a politician or talk show host on television jabbering about Islamic loyalty to America.”

So I submit to you, BryPGuy, if this is what the guy who was awarded the American Muslim’s highest honors has to say, WHAT QUARAN ARE THEY ALL READING??? Oh wait, he did say “more clever politically” I guess that isn’t violent. Never mind.

One individual man, means nothing in the over all picture of people of a faith. You can’t use a single man to base an idea of an entire faith.
It is no different then a communist group leader trying to talk to a rally of people talking about gaining control of the government. I have even heard the same thing come from Catholics in talking about politics.

 

[BryPGuy89]

## Bombing is one way - and a perfectly proper one - of waging jihad; and jihad is obligatory on Muslims
Whereas cartoons are forbidden in themselves, and those featuring him, even more so.

I think that is, in essence, how many Muslims would answer your question. ##

There are certain criteria for a jihad to be called.

 

[BryPGuy89]

## That doctrine is held by many Muslims, nonetheless.

It is neither ignorant nor biassed, but perfectly accurate, honest, well-informed, intelligent, prudent, and truthful to say that violence of certain sorts is in perfect accord with Islam, both as to its texts and its spirit.

How was Islam spread after Muhammad went to his infernal reward ? By peaceful preaching ? Think again: France, Spain, Hungary, Greece, Italy, the lands of Eastern Europe, have all at one time or another been attacked, threatened or occupied by the Mahometans. Don’t fancy that being in the USA gives immunity from Islam - unless it is withstood, resolutely, it will overcome us all.

How many cartoons of Muslim hatred for Israel, how many lying videos accusing Jews of using non-Jewish blood for their matzos, how much evidence of Muslim lying and forging of cartoons of their pseudoprophet to cause trouble in Denmark, how much evidence of Muslim complicity with Hitler, or how many riots and bombings and sermons preaching hatred of Jews and Christians does it take to open the eyes of those who say Islam is peaceful ? It is peaceful in the same sense as leprosy or AIDS - all are deadly, and no less deadly for being ignored.

No one is so useful to Islam as those who do not see the ugliness beneath its attractive mask - just as it was with Communism. or Nazism, or Maoism. Even now, these three regimes have theur dupes and apologists; so no wonder the Islamofascists have theirs. It would be amazing if they did not. It is a religion of blood, murder, lies, oppression, and death - what part has Christ in any of that ? If Islam were from Christ, it would not kill his followers. If it were in agreement with Him, it would not degrade women by condoning polygamy. If Muhammad were prompted by His Spirit, he would not teach in contradiction to Him.

Don’t blame others for not being as blissfully ignorant as some seem to choose to be ##

Violence in CERTAIN SORTS are part and taught by the Church as well, violence to some degree has to be present for something to survive in the secular world.

Israel first started out by conquering and destruction to cleanse a beginning to start. Islam cleansed the Arabian peninsula of a bunch of pagans to start out. For one I don’t see how a countries expansion constitutes a religious conquest, once past the killing of the people for their faith. Many European countries conquerd and expanded in the past, does that mean that they were basing their Christian beleifs on conquest and expansion? The invasion part does go both ways very evenly my friend.

The cartoon though wrong don’t violate a religious beleif. With Hitler? Many groups, Christian, Muslim, Buddhist, Hindu, and etc… were with Hitler and his atrocities, you are targeting an individual group unjustly. A few percentage of a group of people is not enough to change my view on that group. That is like the very reason the protestant churches arose, Luther based his decisions on his experience with a small portion of the Church and turned from it. Other groups once again have done things violently, not just MUSLIMS, but Christians in the past and other groups too it is not one way or uniqu to them. Christians are no more peaceful, with our wars and riots and what not you make biased allegations and don’t take into account of both sides.

So what if it is just a group, if we just don’t allow it to do unjustly outside of it’s own boundries then contain it. What religion doesn’t have history of blood, murder, lies, oppression and death? What makes them so special? Christians kill Christians and Jews were told by God to kill Jews my friend. I don’t condone poligomy, but I do support their dress code. All things of man are flawed, many protestant groups have developed beleiving they are fallowing god’s willa nd spirit and have turned out very wrong. Islam in it’s earlier years, before WWII basically was much better, many problems of instability in the region is the Europeans fault.

 

[BryPGuy89]

Cyber Knight:

To : BryPGuy89

Muslims killed and terrorized children in Beslan. Didnt you feel offended?

Muslims beheaded 3 non muslim girls just because they were not muslim. Didnt you feel offended?

Muslims cheering up on the street a minute after they found out WTC has been destroyed by the terrorists. Didnt you feel offended?

Muslims burned churches, closed down churches, attack people when do rosary prayer. Didnt you feel offended?

Muslims call us kafir, infidel, unbeliever, unclean, will go to hell and being hellfire’s wood. Didnt you feel offended?

Muslims go mad and become violent because the cartoons of their prophet while they keep their mouth shut when suicide bombers kill thousand of innocent around the world. Didnt you feel offended?

One thing that should offend you is the Quran itself not us.
Not all muslims are bad. Only those who terrorize and love to kill the infidels and suicide bombers are bad. Unfortunately, these terrorists are the real Islam. They follow the Quran accordingly. Its our duty to make the ‘good’ muslims see the light or else they are going to be the real ones.

To be politically correct is good. But its much better to be factually correct. I have no idea where you live, but you are becoming an ignorant person, when saying us ignorant about Islam.

The verses are clear as proof. The actions are cleas as evidence and I dont care if you believe Islam does not condone violance.

Be thankful if you live as majority. But be more thankful when you live as dhimi. That way you may know what Islamic teaching is all about…

My big thing is that there are reasons behind most of these events. Some are purposeless and rediculuous, but not all. PLus most is not of the majority of the people and not very rampant. Christians have had their problems and done the same and worse too. I don’t like it when people forget both side and attack one and defend the other improperly.

 

[inJESUS]

BryPGuy89:

Christians have had their problems and done the same and worse too. I don’t like it when people forget both side and attack one and defend the other improperly.

these “christians” you are talking about did many “worse” things based on what?

 

[inJESUS]

Bry, do you consider islam a religion from God?

 

[SAINThoodSEEKER]

inJESUS ,
Thank you for your insight, it has been both thoughtful and energetic. However, if you haven’t already guessed, you will not convince the “Kingdom of Heaven”. They have decided and that’s that. God bless you all.

 

[BryPGuy89]

inJESUS:

these “christians” you are talking about did many “worse” things based on what?

The inquisition for starters. Some of the crusades and the actions in them. Destruction of “pagan faiths”, forced faith. I could continue on, but my point is made.

 

[BryPGuy89]

inJESUS:

Bry, do you consider islam a religion from God?

I beleive they like the protestant churches have a grasp of truth, but that is all.