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inJESUS
Guest
your point is made but my question is not answered
they did all these things based on what?
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they did all these things based on what?
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inJESUS
Guest
They are either from God (allah) as they claim or not…in between doesnt work…what do you think?
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Cyber_Knight
Guest
lol another catholic pc. why wasting your time, sister?
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pro_universal
Guest
Just like the current crop of terrorists pretend that religion is the reason for what they are doing in the middle east (it isn’t), in the past, europeans relied on christianity as a mask for their land grabs.
For example…the wholesale occupation and enslavement of inhabited lands in the New World was justified in part by the pretense that it was a mission to convert the natives to Christianity. It was SOP to give conquistadors grants of indian servants on the promise that they be taught Christianity. (As you can tell from South America today, this largely succeeded…most of those people are descendants of natives who were forced to convert.)
But what were the evil parts of the inquisitions and the imperial expansion of christendom about really? They were about power and politics, using religion as a mask.
What on earth is so difficult for people to see the same thing going on with radical groups in the middle east right now?
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Cyber_Knight
Guest
what about the ordinary group that attack people on rosary prayer? shut down and burned churches? not allow to build churches? bombing chruches? calling us kaffirs? this is not only happened in the middleeast. its happened around my neigborhood. do you know why? because they are taught to be so. they teach peace for their own sake. how on earth you never understand it? oh wait … I know… becuase you are one of them! Unless I miss it, Reuben asking you to say the apostle’s creed, have you done that? I once asked you to say about muhammad… have you done that? thanks
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MugenOne
Guest
Pro_universal,
Are you a true Catholic or Muslim trying to decieve us? Whatever you are is beside the point. This imperial European colonial topics have been brought up over and over again on CAF. Yes, no one is proud of what happened. European countries did not conquer the world in the name of Christianity. They did in the name of the crowns and mercantile economic trade. Y’all have to understand that European government at that time were secular. Its responsibility was to maintain peace, prosperity, and power for its rulers.
Yes, conquest also brought the Church to the new world. The Church had and always has the responsibility to save and take care its people. The Church did not conspire with the secular government to conquer the world and forced everyone to convert or die. Only the religion of peace does that. The religion of peace is the government and the government is the religion.
MugenOne
pro_universal:
Are you a true Catholic or Muslim trying to decieve us? Whatever you are is beside the point. This imperial European colonial topics have been brought up over and over again on CAF. Yes, no one is proud of what happened. European countries did not conquer the world in the name of Christianity. They did in the name of the crowns and mercantile economic trade. Y’all have to understand that European government at that time were secular. Its responsibility was to maintain peace, prosperity, and power for its rulers.
Yes, conquest also brought the Church to the new world. The Church had and always has the responsibility to save and take care its people. The Church did not conspire with the secular government to conquer the world and forced everyone to convert or die. Only the religion of peace does that. The religion of peace is the government and the government is the religion.
MugenOne
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pro_universal
Guest
You are missing the point again. Just as when Christians committed these evils waiving the banner of “bringing Christianity to the pagans”, it wasn’t really about religion…so today when the islamist radicals do this, it is not because of their religious teaching.
That was the point of my post. Did you get that? Sometimes people claim religious justification to do things that are worldly. Christians conquered the world doing this, muslims are now doing it. It does not mean that either religion is evil.
As for querying my faith, it is making a game of my religion to even bother responding. The factuality and reasoning of my posts must stand on its own, and if it doesn’t, it doesn’t matter what I tell you about Jesus.
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pro_universal
Guest
This is patently false. I agree, it was indeed an a power/money/land grab…but it is ignoring history to pretend that the Europeans did not use the mask of Christian teaching to justify their actions. They were not secular states at the time of colonial imperialism; Spain was not a secular state when it went to the Americas; England had a state Church (headed by the King) when it went to Asia and America; Portugal was a religious state as well.
They were not secular governments. This is simply false. I encourage you to read Fr. Bartolomeo de Las Casas’ Short Account of the Destruction of the Indies on this point. There was a man who recognized how his faith was being perverted to serve political interests, and God bless him for exposing it.
Name one secular European government that existed before Europe’s age of colonial expansion.
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Cyber_Knight
Guest
It is your teaching. SHOULD I quote you the verses about it?
You dont get it do you? people were praying rosary and being attacked by the muslims because according to them its so annoying… according to them, they (christian) has no permit to do such thing (practice their religious activity), etc. They are not justify they action, it is because Quran justify their action! Like Rodrigo said… put down your islamic eyeglasses… (I’m sure you cannot do… been discussed with muslims and you are just the same!) that way you will see something different!
Once again, playing taqiyya here is will not bring you any benefit
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pro_universal
Guest
People who claim to share my religion have quoted verses to support slavery, war, and all manner of things. They did it wrongly, and if you ask any Catholic about it, they will tell you that. It is the same with muslims…if you want, you can pull things out of context and pervert their meaning. Ask a muslim, and he or she will tell you the same.
Sure, just like the Bible used to justify torturing jews in Spain because being jewish was an affront to “christian teaching”. And of course the friars often justified torture in South America on “christian teaching”, because the pagans were offending them by worshipping idols.
The Koran does not justify this kind of barbarism any more than the Bible does, but there will always be people who use religion as a cover for their own agendas.
Just like people who wish to insult muslims. This is not about Christianity (indeed, the Church specifically teaches that we should respect and enter into dialogue with muslims in Lumen Gentium and the resultant CCC 841).
Cyber, you are insulting muslims because of bias, ignorance, and fear. I’ll pray that you can someday accept the truth of the Church’s teaching, and stop letting your passions lead you astray.
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justint77
Guest
Im tired of us in the civilized world having to be politically correct. No one speaks up and tells it like it is. everyone knows that Islam is wrong and basically anti-Christ. i don’t know if the anti christ is literally one person or a body of people. (Islam). but im starting to think that we’re misunderstanding, its not one person we’re supposed to be looking out for, its a body that becomes one and terrorises the world. i see a total opossite of what God teaches us. Islam promotes violence, believes in converting “infidels” by any means including violence. islam was spread by war. Islam is chaos.
Compare that to what Jesus teaches. love thy enemy, Jesus spread his word with peace. the holy spirit converts we just help spread the word, the holy spirt invites people to find the truth and salvation. God establishes order out of chaos. Islam goes against every fundamental Christian belief. lets not try to paint it up as something different.
i know im not politically correct here, i think Islam is very evil and very dangerous to the world. if anything is going to oppress and torture christians and jews it will be Islam. I may be called negative things by Islamic “sympathisers” but when i see someone cut the head off of an innocent hostage and they are repeating in’shallah god is great while they are horrifyingly sawing at their throat, that pretty much tells me they are evil and worshipping the wrong God. there is no one that i know of that would want you to kill in his name but the devil himself. i don’t care if people say “well, thats not all muslims”. i say to them, they may not all cut peoples heads off but i dont see them acting against it. I see thousands of muslims crying death to America! and celebrating when an american is killed. That makes my blood boil in outrage, and i blame their evil religion.
why dont we call it what it really is, its not just a war on terror, it truly is a jihad, a holy war. this is what i believe and the sooner we strip away the scales and see what this really is, the sooner we start winning.
Islam is evil, i dont care what anyone says, to me, it is the anti-christ. this is my opinion and im not arguing my point. i am probably wrong but that doesnt change my point of view.
Compare that to what Jesus teaches. love thy enemy, Jesus spread his word with peace. the holy spirit converts we just help spread the word, the holy spirt invites people to find the truth and salvation. God establishes order out of chaos. Islam goes against every fundamental Christian belief. lets not try to paint it up as something different.
i know im not politically correct here, i think Islam is very evil and very dangerous to the world. if anything is going to oppress and torture christians and jews it will be Islam. I may be called negative things by Islamic “sympathisers” but when i see someone cut the head off of an innocent hostage and they are repeating in’shallah god is great while they are horrifyingly sawing at their throat, that pretty much tells me they are evil and worshipping the wrong God. there is no one that i know of that would want you to kill in his name but the devil himself. i don’t care if people say “well, thats not all muslims”. i say to them, they may not all cut peoples heads off but i dont see them acting against it. I see thousands of muslims crying death to America! and celebrating when an american is killed. That makes my blood boil in outrage, and i blame their evil religion.
why dont we call it what it really is, its not just a war on terror, it truly is a jihad, a holy war. this is what i believe and the sooner we strip away the scales and see what this really is, the sooner we start winning.
Islam is evil, i dont care what anyone says, to me, it is the anti-christ. this is my opinion and im not arguing my point. i am probably wrong but that doesnt change my point of view.
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BryPGuy89
Guest
your point is made but my question is not answered
, the Catholic CHurch did these things for several reasons. These were the actions of the CC and I was answering the Question how CHristians have done similar atrocities as the Muslims are now. I’m confident that you are aware of the reasons behind these actions from the CC.
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inJESUS
Guest
BryPGuy89 said:
my question is, if they kill, did they learn it from Jesus? if they raped? if they persecuted? am just taking about teachings, not about what people make.
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inJESUS
Guest
of course you are not wrong…the Bible is clear on what an anti-Christ is and it fits muhammad perfectly.
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BryPGuy89
Guest
I have to disagree. John Paul II said that we have similar beleives and standings, said about both protestants and Muslim. I beleive that the truth and the full truth is most desirable. Protestants lack the full truth of God and so do the Muslims. They are closer then a Hindu to the truth and so my interest is less focused on them and more on the pagans. I would rather them know some of God than none of God. My personal beleif is that God played a role in the forming of Islam, but man took it the wrong way. Just like some protestants are very pious and good people, but they disobey God in their very following of their faith. I think that is the simplest way of putting it.
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BryPGuy89
Guest
Amen my Friend, amen.
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BryPGuy89
Guest
Cyber Knight:
That is part because of the shift of religious denomination in the Islamic faith. Shia’ muslims in the past were more dominant and were of, in my opinion, a better degree of what a Muslim should be. They had a central leader and doctrinal authority, similar to the pope’s position. They didn’t have the problems like we have today because in more recent times the sunni have grown more influencial and have lead to more open interpretation and manipulation of the Qur’an. It isn’t the Islamic faith, but the recent changes in the dominent sect. Like when protestants first started rising in large numbers there was and still is some very big problems between them and the Catholic Church and some protestant groups are very radical and violent.
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BryPGuy89
Guest
Your statement is false. To be a monarch you had to be crowned by the Church, unless protestant, then you were the head of the church. Secularism was not of European culture. The monarch had the responsibility and shared authority some what of the faith. Expansion was done in the name of Christianity in European and even American history. The true reasons were usually as you said based on the worldly things.
You speak as if every individual in the CHurch is infallible. It is a proven fact that some Church officials did cospire and even incourages such worldly endevors. The Church even did go through a period when some officials actually did force the CC faith on others by any means necessary.
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BryPGuy89
Guest
Again nice post.
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BryPGuy89
Guest
Cyber Knight:
You have a very biased attitude towards the Islamic faith, plus you don’t have a good understanding of its teachings, which many don’t seem to these days. The Qur’an and the faith have always taught that Christians, Jews, and Muslims are of the same God and should live harmoniously. Maybe that has been perverted and what not to a point of no return, but your misunderstandings don’t help. Muslims are similar to Catholics on several levels. They have some very similar beleifs in the two books, both claim to be the ultimate truth of the faith of Abrahams God, and they both have sects that have splintered and decayed away from the original faiths. As Christians it is our job to be loving and understanding to the point of death. Muslims the practice the real old faith will return our actions when they no longer see into the perverted ideas of radical groups.It is your teaching. SHOULD I quote you the verses about it?
You dont get it do you? people were praying rosary and being attacked by the muslims because according to them its so annoying… according to them, they (christian) has no permit to do such thing (practice their religious activity), etc. They are not justify they action, it is because Quran justify their action! Like Rodrigo said… put down your islamic eyeglasses… (I’m sure you cannot do… been discussed with muslims and you are just the same!) that way you will see something different!
Once again, playing taqiyya here is will not bring you any benefit
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