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inJESUS
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guysssssss please read my new thread; it says that muslims are behing the cartoon!
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spiritblows
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The thing about these communities is that they are extremely volitile. One cartoon that they don’t like and they threaten people’s lives, riot in the streets, and otherwise go beserk! What’s wrong with them? There’ve been plenty of offensive to Jesus films, TV shows, etc. The reaction might be angry, but how often do you see a Westerner threaten someone’s life over a cartoon?
Europe and the West need to wake up and realize that they have a timebomb in their midst. These Muslim communities are growing and they don’t play by the rules. Look at the destruction that happened in France. Look at the mentality that led to 911.
Then, these people have the nerve to exploit the Western virtues of tolerance for others to advance their cause. They riot because of discrimination, meanwhile rejecting the core values of their adopted countries.
Europe and the West need to wake up and realize that they have a timebomb in their midst. These Muslim communities are growing and they don’t play by the rules. Look at the destruction that happened in France. Look at the mentality that led to 911.
Then, these people have the nerve to exploit the Western virtues of tolerance for others to advance their cause. They riot because of discrimination, meanwhile rejecting the core values of their adopted countries.
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ThomasMore1535
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The reason that the cartoons are so offensive to Muslims is that in the Islamic religion, ANY visual depiction of God or the prophet Muhammed is considered blasphemy. They consider it a form of idolatry (in this, they are very similar to the iconoclasts of the eighth century).
Even if the pictures had been of Muhammed praising Bin Laden, they still would have reacted as violently as they have, because simply depicting Muhammed is blasphemy to them.
I think that it was very disrespectful towards the Muslims for the paper to publish the cartoons.
Having said that, however, the response of the Islamic world to this situation is a disgrace. How many photos have we seen of adherents of the supposed “religion of peace” holding signs calling for the beheading of Europeans? Did anyone see the woman holding the sign telling Europe to “prepare for the real Holocaust”?
So Islam really is a religion of peace? Where are all the Muslims who, while saying the cartoons were wrong, are also deploring the violence of the Islamic protesters? Name a single, solitary Muslim cleric who has said that Muslims should pray for the Denmark paper, that it would repent of its cartoons, instead of saying that its workers should have their heads cut off.
Everyone on this forum knows how blasphemous “The DaVinci Code” is. We have all protested it and tried to alert the world to how it insults Christ. But name a single Catholic (or Christian period) who has called for Dan Brown’s head to be cut off. Not one!
We should see through the thin political correctness of the media when it tries to portray Islam as peaceful, because it isn’t. On that note, though, if we are to criticize Islam, it should be in a respectful manner, and not by publishing cartoons that are a direct affront to them.
Even if the pictures had been of Muhammed praising Bin Laden, they still would have reacted as violently as they have, because simply depicting Muhammed is blasphemy to them.
I think that it was very disrespectful towards the Muslims for the paper to publish the cartoons.
Having said that, however, the response of the Islamic world to this situation is a disgrace. How many photos have we seen of adherents of the supposed “religion of peace” holding signs calling for the beheading of Europeans? Did anyone see the woman holding the sign telling Europe to “prepare for the real Holocaust”?
So Islam really is a religion of peace? Where are all the Muslims who, while saying the cartoons were wrong, are also deploring the violence of the Islamic protesters? Name a single, solitary Muslim cleric who has said that Muslims should pray for the Denmark paper, that it would repent of its cartoons, instead of saying that its workers should have their heads cut off.
Everyone on this forum knows how blasphemous “The DaVinci Code” is. We have all protested it and tried to alert the world to how it insults Christ. But name a single Catholic (or Christian period) who has called for Dan Brown’s head to be cut off. Not one!
We should see through the thin political correctness of the media when it tries to portray Islam as peaceful, because it isn’t. On that note, though, if we are to criticize Islam, it should be in a respectful manner, and not by publishing cartoons that are a direct affront to them.
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spiritblows
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Thomas more,Islam is a religion of the sword. It spread by the sword. I agree, I’m tired of the press glossing over this reality. No, you never, never hear a Muslim Cleric call for prayer for it’s enemies. You never hear them pray for the West, for the Jews, for our souls. They, instead, call to have us slaughtered for ‘offending’ them.
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inJESUS
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the Danish Queen just did : she said they must stand against Islam.
deport and ban immigration.
mohammad started as such
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inJESUS
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spiritblows said:nobody taught them and their role model lacked it as well.
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ThomasMore1535
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spiritblows said:
Islam is a religion of the sword. It spread by the sword. I agree, I’m tired of the press glossing over this reality. No, you never, never hear a Muslim Cleric call for prayer for it’s enemies. You never hear them pray for the West, for the Jews, for our souls. They, instead, call to have us slaughtered for ‘offending’ them.
Very well put.
What’s more important to realize, as well, is that whether or not the cartoons were blasphemous to them is somewhat beside the point in looking at their response. I personally think that the cartoons WERE offensive and in bad taste, but even if they were, that cannot justify saying that Europe should experience a Holocaust!
There is always a delicate balance to walk with regard to evangelizing. On the one hand, you have to point out the flaws and problems with the religion of the person you’re trying to win for Christ, while at the same time being as respectful as possible to that person. For example, when St. Paul got to Athens in Acts (I forget which chapter), he very clearly showed where the pagans had gone wrong, with practicing idolatry, but he still quoted one of their poets with approval.
It does no good to approach Mulims in trying to convert them by showing them pictures that are disrespectful to Muhammed. Even if the pictures themselves are true, only hatred will result. You have to approach it with as much charity as possible. Like I said, it’s a delicate balance.
If we, as Christians, stoop to publishing offending images of people they hold sacred, we are no better than them when they publish offensive images of Jews. Nothing requires that we publish offensive images to Muhammed to win them over to Christ.
There is a lot of truth to Islam–that there’s only one God, that idolatry is wrong, that there will be a Last Judgment, etc., but sadly, the bad seems to outweigh the good. It is indeed a “religion of the sword,” and no amount of media political correctness will change that.
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spiritblows
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Well said. I think that the cartoonists were not probably Christians but Secularists. They are Satarists who make a living poking fun at people and institutions. Satarists don’t always exersise good taste. However, rioting and violent threats kind of prove the point the cartoonist was trying to make, eh?
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TobyLue
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All I can say is that Satan is having a field day.
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inJESUS
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indeed.
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Guar_Fan
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The amount of hate that I read in the messages here constantly amazes me. For a Christian site we don’t do a very good job being Christian. The lack of charity and outright hatred which gets expressed here dismays me.
TobyLue:
Absolutely.
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Semper_Fi_1
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Because Iran’s president asked al-Jazeera to keep showing the cartoons over and over. Probably to deflect criticism from himself and take the news off of him.
In Islam, depictions of humans or forbidden.
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Semper_Fi_1
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Guar Fan:
Where was one hateful thing posted in this thread?
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mommyaprilj
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I don’t see how acknowledging the reality of the situation is hateful. I pray for peace every day. Can they say as much?
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BJRumph
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While I agree that the pictures were obviously (in some cases anyway) deliberately meant to offend the sensibilities of muslims in offending the face of Muhammad, and that, in keeping with Rome’s position, that such is forbidden for practical Christians,
I also follow Christ’s teaching that an insult DOES NOT JUSTIFY an armed/mortal response.
Protests, boycotts, and whatever peacable means of reaction are certainly within their human rights of dignity.
But putting signs in the hands of infants calling for the deaths of an offender is wholly unconsciable, and wholly incompatible with anything that desires to be reconciled with a “Peace” movement, such as Islam declairing itself a “Religion of Peace”, when it is an Islamic impulse that is causing this bloody reation and call to arms.
It is wrong, no matter what context you wish to present it in. Killing over an insult is not excusable in any circumstance. It was wrong even in the more barbarous ages past that did excuse it; it is certainly morally wrong in current times.
Death is not the only peace that mankind has to know; there are truer forms of Peace available to the world.
Inter arma caritas
Caritas numquam excidit
I also follow Christ’s teaching that an insult DOES NOT JUSTIFY an armed/mortal response.
Protests, boycotts, and whatever peacable means of reaction are certainly within their human rights of dignity.
But putting signs in the hands of infants calling for the deaths of an offender is wholly unconsciable, and wholly incompatible with anything that desires to be reconciled with a “Peace” movement, such as Islam declairing itself a “Religion of Peace”, when it is an Islamic impulse that is causing this bloody reation and call to arms.
It is wrong, no matter what context you wish to present it in. Killing over an insult is not excusable in any circumstance. It was wrong even in the more barbarous ages past that did excuse it; it is certainly morally wrong in current times.
Death is not the only peace that mankind has to know; there are truer forms of Peace available to the world.
Inter arma caritas
Caritas numquam excidit
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Guar_Fan
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Semper Fi:
In its most bald-faced formWhere was one hateful thing posted in this thread?
But there is a current of snide remarks and accusations in many of the messages.
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spiritblows
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This out of porportion, violent response on the part of the Muslim world is like the temper tantrum of a 2 year old who didn’t get his way. It’s utterly infantile. I’ve totally lost respect for the Muslim world after this. These are just pictures! This is idolotry to put so much import on them. They are just ink on paper! Even my dog recognizes that they aren’t real!
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PAX777
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PAX
The Vatican deplored the violence but said certain forms of criticism represented an “unacceptable provocation.”
“The right to freedom of thought and expression … cannot entail the right to offend the religious sentiment of believers,” the Vatican said in its first statement on the controversy.
foxnews.com/story/0,2933,183812,00.html
We as Catholic Christians must take the Higher ground.
Ecclesiasticus 17:22
Make thy prayer before the face of the Lord, and offend less.
Psalms 33:15
Turn away from evil and do good: seek after peace and pursue it.
The Vatican deplored the violence but said certain forms of criticism represented an “unacceptable provocation.”
“The right to freedom of thought and expression … cannot entail the right to offend the religious sentiment of believers,” the Vatican said in its first statement on the controversy.
foxnews.com/story/0,2933,183812,00.html
We as Catholic Christians must take the Higher ground.
Ecclesiasticus 17:22
Make thy prayer before the face of the Lord, and offend less.
Psalms 33:15
Turn away from evil and do good: seek after peace and pursue it.
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stillsmallvoice
Guest
Hi all!
No Muslim is forced to buy any of the publications that have carried the cartoons; what one doesn’t like, one need not buy or read…
None of the Islamic countries in which European diplomats have been summoned to the countries’ foreign ministries, or in which European embassies have been burned, have anything remotely approaching a free press. The very idea is alien in many parts of the world.
Nobody in these Islamic countries complains very much when official/semi-official media (print & electronic) in these countries regularly run the crudest anti-Jewish and anti-Christian garbage. Go to memri.org/ & run a search on the terms “Christians” and Jews" and see what wholesome stuff you come up with. Also see jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/anti-semitism/arabantoc.html.
Wouldn’t the shootings, bombings & massacres of the kind we have seen in New York, Arlington, London, Beslan, Bali, Tel Aviv, Jerusalem, and against churches in Iraq, Pakistan and Indonesia, etc., etc. be far more of a desecration & an unholy act that these cartoons? If the same masses who are marching throughout the Islamic world to protest the cartoons (to say nothing of burning embassies) would have similarly marched after the aforementioned shootings, bombings & massacres (or in protest against the anti-Jewish & anti-Christian garbage that are staples of the official and semi-official media in so much of the Arab world), I’d probably be inclined to take Islamic criticism of the cartoons more seriously.
As offensive as many Christians found Scorsese’s The Last Temptation of Christ, I don’t recall that eiher Martin Scorsese or Willem Dafoe was forced to go underground (a la Salman Rushdie) in fear for their lives from Christian extremists.
An Anglican cyberfriend of mine on another board wrote: “I am bemused by how fragile your God and your prophet are, that they can be so easily defiled. Mine cannot be touched. And I think if you took a moment to think about it, you would realise that yours cannot either.”
She is absolutely right.
The cartoons may have been in insensitive & in poor taste but this in no way justifies burning embassies, etc. I agree with what spiritblows & BJRumph have said on this matter.
Be well!
ssv
http://us.i1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/i/us/sp/v/nfl/teams/1/80x60/pit.gif
No Muslim is forced to buy any of the publications that have carried the cartoons; what one doesn’t like, one need not buy or read…
None of the Islamic countries in which European diplomats have been summoned to the countries’ foreign ministries, or in which European embassies have been burned, have anything remotely approaching a free press. The very idea is alien in many parts of the world.
Nobody in these Islamic countries complains very much when official/semi-official media (print & electronic) in these countries regularly run the crudest anti-Jewish and anti-Christian garbage. Go to memri.org/ & run a search on the terms “Christians” and Jews" and see what wholesome stuff you come up with. Also see jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/anti-semitism/arabantoc.html.
Wouldn’t the shootings, bombings & massacres of the kind we have seen in New York, Arlington, London, Beslan, Bali, Tel Aviv, Jerusalem, and against churches in Iraq, Pakistan and Indonesia, etc., etc. be far more of a desecration & an unholy act that these cartoons? If the same masses who are marching throughout the Islamic world to protest the cartoons (to say nothing of burning embassies) would have similarly marched after the aforementioned shootings, bombings & massacres (or in protest against the anti-Jewish & anti-Christian garbage that are staples of the official and semi-official media in so much of the Arab world), I’d probably be inclined to take Islamic criticism of the cartoons more seriously.
As offensive as many Christians found Scorsese’s The Last Temptation of Christ, I don’t recall that eiher Martin Scorsese or Willem Dafoe was forced to go underground (a la Salman Rushdie) in fear for their lives from Christian extremists.
An Anglican cyberfriend of mine on another board wrote: “I am bemused by how fragile your God and your prophet are, that they can be so easily defiled. Mine cannot be touched. And I think if you took a moment to think about it, you would realise that yours cannot either.”
She is absolutely right.
The cartoons may have been in insensitive & in poor taste but this in no way justifies burning embassies, etc. I agree with what spiritblows & BJRumph have said on this matter.
Be well!
ssv
http://us.i1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/i/us/sp/v/nfl/teams/1/80x60/pit.gif
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demetrios1973
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