Cassock Albs, Surplices, and all that

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pardon me if i sound a little presumptuous… but all these wrangling over the nitty-gritty of cloths - isn’t it a little too legalistic and fixated on forms?

amidst the long replies i quickly scanned, i don’t think i saw any explications of the meanings and purposes of the varied vestments. could i trouble someone to highlight the significances? especially the difference between a cassock and an alb - both in terms of the form (i could never really tell them apart at first glance) and their respective significance. i’ve heard that the stole represents the wisdom and knowledge imparted to the priests as part of their clerical office/ordination. (i don’t think this is differentiated between Christian traditions - but i might be mistaken!)

tucked or untucked - what’s the implication?

crossed or uncrossed - affects the eyes or affects the mind?

cassock and/or alb - a matter of deep, Christocentric tradition or just distracting judgemental legalism?

if the wording is a little harsh, i apologise. i do not mean any offense… but i can’t hold back a sense of incredulity about concerns which do not seem to reach beneath the surface!
Alveolate,

You are entirely correct. It is all about relatively minor issues, but sometimes, especially for those of us who don them, these are of more than passing interest. Not everything has to be sullenly serious, don’t you know!

I belong to several Yahoo! groups, including Academic Dress, Ecclevest, and Court Dress. Academic Dress now has about 1,000 members and all they talk about all day long and in multiple messages is gowns and hoods. Ecclevest started mainly because Anglican members talked alot about how to wear academic hoods over surplices in choir dress. It advanced onto most issues of vesting in Western Christendom, including some discussion of John Wesley’s preaching gown. Court Dress (not law courts but royal courts) gets little traffic. One other group, Anglican Music, Liturgy and Controversy also exists because members were talking about things outside the sphere of ecclesiastical vestments. You are welcome to search these out.

The Academic Dress group, the mother of all the others, was started by an English RC brother.
 
Like I said, as far as I’m concerned manufacturers can use whatever names they want for their products. And I don’t think the Church realy cares either. But keep in mind that just because they choose to call it a “cassock alb” doesn’t make it a cassock–it’s still an alb.

When religious order clerics wear their habits instead of an alb, that’s an abuse.
See the quote from RS 126 in post #26
And note that Rome does use the word “abuse.”

That’s the point I’ve been making about the difference between street clothes (like the cassock or the habit) and vestments. One cannot replace the other. A Dominican friar might wear his habit when attending Mass, or if he’s a priest, might even wear it with a stole if he’s blessing someone’s rosary (just to give a few examples), but it cannot be worn in place of the alb–Rome’s very clear on that.
All I know it that my pastor’s cassock is black- (street clothes), and his albs (liturgical clothes) are mostly all white.

But he has one alb that looks like a “cassock-alb” (but not according to the definition because it is a pull over) because it looks like a lacey long surplice with black material attached to the under part of the outer sleeves and the bottom of the alb. He has some shorter style chausibles with more open sides, that it goes well with.
 
It’s not my intention to make this thread about the invalidity of Anglican orders.

However, this is a Catholic message forum. As a Catholic, and especially as a priest, I have my concerns that when comparisons are made between Catholic and Anglican practices, some Catholics might read these messages and fail to understand that there are essential (and unavoidable) differences between a Catholic priest and an Anglican minister. If a Catholic comes away from reading these posts with the impression that Catholic and Anglican orders are simply a matter of some slight differences in vesture, then the experience of reading this thread could cause serious misunderstandings in the mind of that Catholic reader. There’s nothing wrong with the discussion, as such. However, leaving something so important unsaid can either lead-to or reinforce that misunderstanding among Catholic readers.
I for one appreciate you making the point. Thank you.
 
pardon me if i sound a little presumptuous… but all these wrangling over the nitty-gritty of cloths - isn’t it a little too legalistic and fixated on forms?

…cassock and/or alb - a matter of deep, Christocentric tradition or just distracting judgemental legalism?

if the wording is a little harsh, i apologise. i do not mean any offense… but i can’t hold back a sense of incredulity about concerns which do not seem to reach beneath the surface!
In ritual, form does count. That’s what rituals are…forms, and forms saturated with meaning by careful repetition, not by endless or careless variation!! This isn’t an example of unhealthy legalism. It is simple anthropology. Anthropology is nothing but a scholarly description of the way God made our collective psyches. Ritual is a need, and ritual requires a form. How strict the form has to be and how much the form serves the reality is something else again, but form is necessary to ritual. That is not bad. It is human. It is how God made us.

The Mass is conducted using sacred objects, set aside for sacred use. This includes the vestments. Dedicated sacred objects are common attribute of human rituals. We naturally feel a need to set some special things aside for worship of God, and for no other use. We also need to treat sacred objects in a more reverent manner than secular objects. Objects thus set aside become invested with the power to return us to a worshipful mindset. This is how our minds and hearts work, how God made us.

Cassocks are street clothes for clergy. Street clothes, even if they look like vestments, are not to be used as vestments. Cassock-albs are albs: vestments, not street clothes. (And Grapenuts…well, let’s not even go there…)

Vestments, likewise, are not to be used as street clothes. It is not allowed to wear the chasuble, stole, or alb to the coffee social after church, for instance. You wouldn’t use real vestments in a secular theatrical production, either. The reason is similar to the reason why lavabo towels and purificators aren’t used as kitchen towels later in the week, why a real chalice wouldn’t be loaned out for a theatre production of Macbeth, or why the altar isn’t used as anything whatsoever other than the altar.

The Dominican habit is very close in fabric, etc., to what is sold as a “contemporary alb”, the difference being that a “contemporary alb” has a cowl-style neck, while the Dominican habit is literally hooded. (There are other differences, but let’s skip over those…) If the Dominicans ever retired their habits, never wearing them for anything but liturgical use, then those would no longer really be “habits”, but could concievably come into use as albs, if the form fits the other requirements of form needed for an alb. For reasons of confusion, though–and I would be interested to hear from FrDavid if I finally have this right–they couldn’t choose albs that look just exactly like their current habits, just as we would not use purificators that look exactly like kitchen towels. There has to be some recognizable difference in appearance.

My understanding is that in the early Church, the chasuble itself was simply a white street cloak, with the same cut as cloaks in everyday use, but that chasubles were also set aside for the Mass. Just the cleanliness of the garment would make it distinctive. In extremity, though, if an object set aside for sacred use cannot be had then the most noble available example of an otherwise fitting secular object has to suffice. It could be dangerous to have more objects that are obviously for conducting Mass than absolutely necessary in a country where the Mass if forbidden by law, for instance. Even in the US, a Mass offered in a place outside a sanctuary would probably have to use a normal table, instead of a dedicated altar. When an especially tall or big Dominican priest shows up to offer Mass, and none of the albs available will fit him, I wouldn’t be surprised if he felt forced to improvise his habit into an alb, rather than using an available alb that was so small as to look ridiculous on him. The secular would be the more worshipful choice than choosing the ridiculous. That kind of thing. When there is a choice, though, the dedicated object is used, because dedicated sacred objects are important to our sense of encountering the sacred.

I hope that helps, and that anyone who finds a mistake in it will offer correction or clarification.
 

The Dominican habit is very close in fabric, etc., to what is sold as a “contemporary alb”, the difference being that a “contemporary alb” has a cowl-style neck, while the Dominican habit is literally hooded. (There are other differences, but let’s skip over those…) If the Dominicans ever retired their habits, never wearing them for anything but liturgical use, then those would no longer really be “habits”, but could concievably come into use as albs, if the form fits the other requirements of form needed for an alb. For reasons of confusion, though–and I would be interested to hear from FrDavid if I finally have this right–they couldn’t choose albs that look just exactly like their current habits, just as we would not use purificators that look exactly like kitchen towels. There has to be some recognizable difference in appearance.

My understanding is that in the early Church, the chasuble itself was simply a white street cloak, with the same cut as cloaks in everyday use, but that chasubles were also set aside for the Mass. Just the cleanliness of the garment would make it distinctive. In extremity, though, if an object set aside for sacred use cannot be had then the most noble available example of an otherwise fitting secular object has to suffice. It could be dangerous to have more objects that are obviously for conducting Mass than absolutely necessary in a country where the Mass if forbidden by law, for instance. Even in the US, a Mass offered in a place outside a sanctuary would probably have to use a normal table, instead of a dedicated altar. When an especially tall or big Dominican priest shows up to offer Mass, and none of the albs available will fit him, I wouldn’t be surprised if he felt forced to improvise his habit into an alb, rather than using an available alb that was so small as to look ridiculous on him. The secular would be the more worshipful choice than choosing the ridiculous. That kind of thing. When there is a choice, though, the dedicated object is used, because dedicated sacred objects are important to our sense of encountering the sacred.

I hope that helps, and that anyone who finds a mistake in it will offer correction or clarification.
I suppose a religious order could choose anything within reason as a habit. But even if they did choose something that looks “just like an alb” it would in fact be a habit and they would have to change into an alb properly speaking before celebrating Mass. Of course, it would make sense for them to have different designs/styles for albs vs. habits.

What constitutes an alb is more “use” than anything else–they can come in all sorts of different styles (within reason of course, and they do have to be white) but it’s more the fact that this particular garment is set aside for use as an alb, than it is anything in the design to specifically distinguish it from something else.

The alb was more of an ancient Roman (and most of the Mediterranean) street clothes. The word “tunic” is usually used in modern English. This was the “everyday, walk around” garment. The toga (worn only by Roman citizens) was worn over the tunic. The cloak served more of a purpose of a modern day coat–an extra layer worn over the tunic in cold weather. From what I gather it was called a laena if it was civilian wear.

The Roman military also had something (sagum) that looked just like a modern Gothic chasuble–a big round garment with a hole in the middle, a type of cloak. This had a similar function as a modern military poncho: it was usually waterproof (with oils and wax) and could double as a blanket. That’s where the chasuble comes from.

Here’s a link to Roman clothing
roman-empire.net/society/soc-dress.html
 
I suppose a religious order could choose anything within reason as a habit. But even if they did choose something that looks “just like an alb” it would in fact be a habit and they would have to change into an alb properly speaking before celebrating Mass. Of course, it would make sense for them to have different designs/styles for albs vs. habits.

What constitutes an alb is more “use” than anything else–they can come in all sorts of different styles (within reason of course, and they do have to be white) but it’s more the fact that this particular garment is set aside for use as an alb, than it is anything in the design to specifically distinguish it from something else.

The alb was more of an ancient Roman (and most of the Mediterranean) street clothes. The word “tunic” is usually used in modern English. This was the “everyday, walk around” garment. The toga (worn only by Roman citizens) was worn over the tunic. The cloak served more of a purpose of a modern day coat–an extra layer worn over the tunic in cold weather. From what I gather it was called a laena if it was civilian wear.

The Roman military also had something (sagum) that looked just like a modern Gothic chasuble–a big round garment with a hole in the middle, a type of cloak. This had a similar function as a modern military poncho: it was usually waterproof (with oils and wax) and could double as a blanket. That’s where the chasuble comes from.

Here’s a link to Roman clothing
roman-empire.net/society/soc-dress.html
Thanks for the great link!

Also, an alb-like garment can be seen all over the Near East as the standard streetwear of traditional Muslims. On Fridays, Muslim men can be seen going to mosque wearing a white or off-white tunic.
 
I’m not sure how similar these would be:

In the “standard” Roman usage, the priest may wear the cope for the beginning of the Mass, if there is some ritual at the opening (as I said in the earlier post, this is prevalent at funerals, or if the rite of sprinkling is used, or similar situations too numerous to mention). However, the priest switches from cope to chasuble before the opening prayer. The alb/stole alone without chasuble or cope is never permitted for the main celebrant.
I haven’t read this whole thread, forgive me if I’m asking a question that you have already answered. I am a Catholic convert (1 1/2 yrs ago) therefore I am not extremely familiar with what the priest should wear at Mass etc I noticed that one of the priests at my parish seldom wears a chasuble. Normally, a chasuble is required?

Thanks!

FM
 
I haven’t read this whole thread, forgive me if I’m asking a question that you have already answered. I am a Catholic convert (1 1/2 yrs ago) therefore I am not extremely familiar with what the priest should wear at Mass etc I noticed that one of the priests at my parish seldom wears a chasuble. Normally, a chasuble is required?

Thanks!

FM
FM,
The main celebrant is always required to wear the alb, stole, and chasuble. Of course, there could be extenuating circumstances when the priest might wear just an alb and stole, or even just a stole (like military chaplains for an obvious example), but full vestments are required, not optional.
 
Are priests that celebrate the OF still permitted to wear maniples, and birettas? I know the biretta is only used in procession, but I remember a very old priest that wore one from time to time when I was growing up.
 
Are priests that celebrate the OF still permitted to wear maniples, and birettas? I know the biretta is only used in procession, but I remember a very old priest that wore one from time to time when I was growing up.
Birettas are an accessory (if you will) of a cassock, so I think so long as a priest is wearing a cassock, he may also wear the biretta, but as you point out, it’s not (strictly speaking) a liturgical vestment.

The maniple is a trickier issue. The 1967 instruction Tres abhinc annos simply said “The maniple is no longer required.” (25) But the modern GIRM does not mention the maniple at all (nor the biretta, I concede).
 
I wonder…

Do chaplains get their vestments at an army surplice store?
 
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