I got to stand right next to one of those isolator pads before they were covered over. While I don’t think the Cathedral rates highly on the beauty scale, I do think it rates highly on the magnificence scale.The entire structure rests on 198 rubber isolator pads, so it can move with the shaking of an earthquake. They say it is supposed to last for 500 years (not such good news for the critics). But it is my cathedral and I love it. I go there often.
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Solomonson
Guest
You are in the trades, so I’m curious if you ever had this thought as you were watching the OLA being built.I was working as an electrician in several of the nearby high rise office towers while the cathedral was being built, though the shop I worked for did not work on the cathedral (too bad. I would have liked that). Nevertheless, I had a bird’s eye view of the construction. The entire structure rests on 198 rubber isolator pads, so it can move with the shaking of an earthquake. They say it is supposed to last for 500 years (not such good news for the critics). But it is my cathedral and I love it. I go there often
I’ve often thought how awesome some of the things are at OLA. The ambulatory entrance, the sloped floor, the pew placement, the large sanctuary, the walls at different angles, the large baptistery, etc.
I’ve though about how cool it would be to largely replicate what has been done at OLA in far less expensive materials (and design.) Something very similar could be built again for a tiny fraction of the original’s price.
One could even add “better” furnishings.
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Solomonson
Guest
I think the more formal term for it was the Rog Mahal…
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Homerun14
Guest
A church building, as a House of God, should be built with the idea that when someone enters the Church they immediately sense the majesty of God and that the people who built the Church wanted that. We should always give God our best, not something less than that.
A traditional-style church is usually one built more than 60 years ago. It will have full-size statues of Our Lord and the saints. It will have stained glass windows with real-life depictions of sacred themes, It may still have an altar railing. It will have a large, impressive altar made of marble. The sanctuary will have statues and other ornamentation that accents the altar. The common reaction when someone enters such a church is how beautiful the church is. They immediately sense how important this particular building is for worshiping God.
On the other hand, most churches built since the mid-1960’s have done away with the traditional items mentioned in the previous paragraph. As a result, many people see a bare building, one in which few people upon entering think of God, but rather just a simple building to go to for Mass. Our children, especially, feel that. Yes, the Lord is present in the fullness of being in the tabernacle, located somewhere in the church, but the stark looking Church building is not worthy of being considered as giving God our best.
To back up my point, you will see people taking pictures inside a traditional church. You don’t see folks rushing to get their cameras out when inside a modern-style church.
So in the same way, the LA Cathedral, even if it cost a ton of money to build, is designed such that a majority of people entering it do not sense the majesty of God, but instead see a confusing modernistic architecture, then that is not good.
A traditional-style church is usually one built more than 60 years ago. It will have full-size statues of Our Lord and the saints. It will have stained glass windows with real-life depictions of sacred themes, It may still have an altar railing. It will have a large, impressive altar made of marble. The sanctuary will have statues and other ornamentation that accents the altar. The common reaction when someone enters such a church is how beautiful the church is. They immediately sense how important this particular building is for worshiping God.
On the other hand, most churches built since the mid-1960’s have done away with the traditional items mentioned in the previous paragraph. As a result, many people see a bare building, one in which few people upon entering think of God, but rather just a simple building to go to for Mass. Our children, especially, feel that. Yes, the Lord is present in the fullness of being in the tabernacle, located somewhere in the church, but the stark looking Church building is not worthy of being considered as giving God our best.
To back up my point, you will see people taking pictures inside a traditional church. You don’t see folks rushing to get their cameras out when inside a modern-style church.
So in the same way, the LA Cathedral, even if it cost a ton of money to build, is designed such that a majority of people entering it do not sense the majesty of God, but instead see a confusing modernistic architecture, then that is not good.
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Solomonson
Guest
Ironically enough, I have never seen more picture-taking inside of any church than inside of LA’s Cathedral.
It’s sad you comment about OLA when you clearly know nothing about the edifice’s design and its furnishings. One of the best design elements of the OLA is its entry ambulatory – which prompts visitors to leave the outside world behind and begin focusing on God better than any cathedral I have ever visited, including St. Pat’s in NYC and Holy Family in Chicago.
Probably my favorite furnishing in the ambulatory is at the corner where it turns into the cathedral’s nave. The retablo (crafted beginning in AD 1608) is some of the most jaw-dropping ecclesial furnishing/artwork I have seen anywhere – in the US or in Europe. Well, you can read about it yourself:
olacathedral.org/cathedral/art/retablo.html
Please make the effort to visit and spend time in OLA before publicly denigrating it and “most churches built since the mid-1960’s.”
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JPUSC
Guest
Lol, feels like any other hallway to me.
http://www.arcspace.com/CropUp/-/media/637022/5cathedral.jpg
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Solomonson
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“LOL.” I suspect you worked to find the stripped photo that you posted. A poor photo at that. At least it shows the retablo from a long distance.
What it doesn’t show is the Blessed Sacrament Chapel to the immediate right that someone else claimed couldn’t be found.
It doesn’t show the ecclesial artwork typically on display from the Getty Center.
Nor does it show the banks of votive candles and kneelers where people can stop to pray about various issues and to light candles a long the way.
Nor does it give a feeling of the size of the ambulatory which like the sanctuary is about the same size as a typical parish church.
Your posting makes me wonder if you have actually ever been inside of OLA?
“LOL”, indeed.
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JPUSC
Guest
It was the first picture that popped up actually and that’s how it looks in person.
Yes, I’ve been there many times
Here’s a picture from their official website:
https://www.olacathedral.org/zoom/images/southambulatory_tn.jpg
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Solomonson
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That’s really subjective. Last time I was there a few months ago, St. Pat’s was still the Archdiocese of NYC’s Cathedral, offering daily Masses. It hasn’t been replaced or supplanted as far as I know.
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christofirst
Guest
I’m looking forward to going there when the transformation is complete.
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christofirst
Guest
My first thought is that OLA is one of a kind, and considering its polarizing effect on the faithful, it should probably stay that way for the time being. I can’t see how those unique design elements at OLA would be less costly or more practical than the typical rectangular church design. I’m thinking of an average parish where cost and space are often limiting factors.
My first and last stop whenever I visit OLA is always the Blessed Sacrament Chapel. It makes sense to me to have the tabernacle here since in the main church tourists are often taking pictures and talking amongst themselves. The tapestries of the saints by John Nava are amazing, and I like how they incorporated parts of old St. Vibiana’s Cathedral into this new cathedral. I always spend some time down in the mausoleum where the stained glass windows from St. Vibiana’s are beautifully restored.
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twf
Guest
I’m not judging…I’m just curious… how could a single chair cost $1 million? Unless it is made of pure, solid gold all the way through…I can’t begin to wrap my head around that figure for a chair?
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Padres1969
Guest
To each their own I guess. If it was an active Cathedral I would have lumped the former Crystal Cathedral in with San Francisco and LA. It just doesn’t strike me as an edifice that will endure through the centuries like the institution it represents as many traditional cathedrals have and hopefully will continue to do so. That and if you’re someone concerned with how much was spent on the LA Cathedral, the former Crystal Cathedral and its renovation to a Catholic church building have been equally staggering.
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Solomonson
Guest
Thanks. What I meant were copying some of the superior and non-controversial traits of OLA in a much less expensive structure. Things like OLAs entry ambulatory, the height/width/length of its nave, its sloped floor, the size of its sanctuary, the size of its altar, etc. could be replicated in a far less expensive and non-controversial structure.
My favorite bit of old St. Vib’s is the small baptistery in St. Vib’s chapel at the cathedral – a gift of former LA community leader Joseph Scott.
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Solomonson
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It’s now “Christ Cathedral.”
I share your concern about the amount spent on Christ Cathedral. The entire campus was beautifully renovated quickly and at modest cost except for the cathedral itself. This followed the bargain-basement purchase of the campus itself at auction.
The amount of time and money spent on “restoring” the cathedral itself has been problematic. It seems to me they are trying to completely redo an award-winning design by an award winning architect, largely to put their own thumbprints on it. That’s sad.
Still, the campus will be a stunner when it’s finally complete.
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SKWill
Guest
I don’t believe the chair actually cost $1M; I suspect the listed “budgeted costs” are the donor recognition gift levels listed in the COLA capital campaign materials. It is typical when conducting capital campaigns, whether you’re building a church, school, laboratory, or social services center, to set the “prices” for naming opportunities or donor recognition well above the actual construct costs of the spaces or items in order to reach the fundraising goal. It’s easier to fund a donor for the bishop’s chair than for the HVAC system.
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victrolatim
Guest
The important thing is that it is a consecrated building and the Blessed Sacrament is housed inside and Mass and the sacraments are celebrated within. Everything else is objective to one’s taste in architecture. I happen to live in a diocese with churches ranging from majestic Gothic revival to art deco and post-modern. I personally favor traditional architectural styles, but I have had to attend weddings and funerals in some (to my taste) pretty abysmal structures. What matters is the mass and the Eucharist. I’ve found if something visual distracts me, I just close my eyes to pray. Don’t forget as well the number of times that the holy sacrifice of mass was held in some pretty unorthodox places: bombed out churches, on the hoods of vehicles on the battlefield, in jails, remember the snowstorm and last year’s March for Life? (post-gazette.com/news/state/2016/01/23/Archdiocese-of-Omaha-students-celebrate-Mass-on-snow-altar-while-stranded-on-PA-Turnpike-due-to-snow-storm/stories/201601230125?pgpageversion=pgevoke) It’s the Eucharist that matters
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tafan
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I will agree that the OP’s question had rather odd wording. I did not take it that way.
Its not my favorite either. I have seen modern style church’s that work well, are quite beautiful (unfortunately I think they are a small minority). But I won’t say too much because I have not seen it in person. I will say that I have heard the chapel that holds the tabernacle is difficult to find, they actually have signs pointing the way. A Catholic church is supposed represent Heaven here on earth. I doubt in heaven we will need signs to help us find God.
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phil19034
Guest
huh? Never claimed that it wasn’t the Cathedral. But I don’t like that when you first walk in, the first thing you see are security guards, a store, an electronic kiosk, and a visitor’s desk.
And during Mass, MANY people are still walking around, sightseeing.
I’m simply not a fan, nor am I a fan of their self described slogan “America’s Cathedral.”
Truth is, there is a reason why many other Catholic Churches in NYC have been elevated to the rank of Minor Basilica, (including Old St. Patrick’s) but the currently St. Patrick’s Cathedral has not been.
OK - I’m done. Talking about St. Patrick’s gets me upset because when I was a kid, it was far less “museum like.”
HOWEVER, I do LOVE the fact that they have 8 Masses on Sunday, 7 Masses during the week, Confession Monday - Saturday, Adoration M-F, and devotions M-F. So their liturgical calendar is pretty good, other than having Tenebrae on Good Friday.
But yes, this is my OPINION. I often feel that St. Patrick’s feels more like a museum to Catholic Culture than like a Cathedral.
God Bless
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