Didn’t I say essentially that in my previous post? Some Catechism are geared more toward a universal audience (e.g., the current Catechism of the Catholic Church) and some are geared toward a more localized audience (e.g., the current U.S. Adult Catechism). All the catechisms, though, are an authentic presentation of the Catholic faith.Your first paragraph confirms my point that the CCC for the entire Catholic Church is a very new and novel thing. The Catechism of Trent was specifically was compiled specificially for the Roman Rite of the Catholic Church. The Baltimore Catechism specifically for the United States Roman Catholics. The Light & Life just for the Byzantine Catholics. But previous to 1992 no world-wide Catholic Catechism, but only local Catechisms. Local to either a specific Rite within the Catholic Church or within a particular country or diocese. Yet, I assume that Catholics had no problem discerning what was authentic Catholic Teaching.
The Latin text is ‘saeculo saeculorum’ and is probably best translated into modern English as ‘forever and ever’. The official translation used in the Divine Office is ‘will be forever’. But, please note that the expression ‘world without end’ is an idiom. And ‘forever and ever’ and ‘unto ages of ages’ are also idioms.Your second paragraph, I’m not sure you want to apply that saying to Catholic prayers as being the law of faith because some Catholic prayers directly conflict with the teachings of God; for example, in this Catholic prayer: Glory be to the Father and to the Son and to the Holy Spirit now as it was in the beginning is now and ever shall be world without end. This Catholic prayer directly conflicts with the teaching of Jesus Christ’s own words: Heaven and earth shall pass away…
There is also no conflict in the Catholic faith with our prayers. And Catholics must live their faith to truly encounter the living God. But, that doesn’t mean we can’t know the facts of our faith even without knowing God - there are plenty of theologians in every camp to attest to that sad fact.There is no conflict with Orthodox prayers and the teachings of Jesus Christ. Orthodox prayers, liturgical and private, teach us Orthodox what is authentic and acceptible for belief. It’s through our prayers that we learn Who Jesus Christ is, who the Theotokos is, who the Saints & Martyrs are, who we are, how we are to live and what we are to believe. This is why we have to LIVE our Faith to know what it is because if we don’t live our Faith (if we neglect the daily prayers & readings & weekly Liturgical cycle) then we miss out on learning our Faith.
Right. That’s what contradicts your claim that a ‘council must be received by all bishops.’ Clearly, most of the Orient didn’t receive Chalcedon and yet it is still ecumenical. Your criteria does not work.Yes and they left the Church.
I’m sure from their perspective it was us (the Romans and the Byzantines) who had left the Church.Yes and they left the Church.
Sure. But then from our perspective we don’t need their approval of a council for it to be Ecumenical. And for them they see no reason to accept that council.I’m sure from their perspective it was us (the Romans and the Byzantines) who had left the Church.
I always knew that whole “Once I’m elected Patriarch of Constantinope I will produce an Orthodox catechism that is comparable to the Catechism of the Catholic Church” was just another empty campaign promise.I do not see a singular catechism that can compare with the universal Catholic Church Catechism.
Here is one from the Patriarch of Jerusalem, at Synod, written against a work attributed to the EP, Cyril Lucaris. This Confession of Dositheus had been considered to be the most important exposition of the Orthodox faith in recent centuries, but it has fallen out of favor among modern Orthodox.I always knew that whole “Once I’m elected Patriarch of Constantinope I will produce an Orthodox catechism that is comparable to the Catechism of the Catholic Church” was just another empty campaign promise.
To be fair, not even the current Catechism of the Catholic Church claims to be truly universal in the sense of speaking to every culture and locale. That is the purview of particular catechisms, such as the U.S. Adult Catechism. Refer to CCC #24 for more.So there is no Orthodox catechism that compiles all the beliefs of Orthodox, correct?..no comparable to the Catholic Catechism of the Church, that appeals to multitudes of cultures, ethnics, languages all over the world…that can unify.
The position of the Holy Father is to represent the unity and communion we are called to.
To edit here, then the universal Catholic Catechism in the context I gave in this post indicates the working of the Holy Spirit…one, holy, catholic (universal), apostolic…Wouldn’t it???
Thank you for providing a concrete example of the type of work I’ve been looking for. So, is it really out of favor with modern Eastern Orthodox? If so, why?Here is one from the Patriarch of Jerusalem, at Synod, written against a work attributed to the EP, Cyril Lucaris. This Confession of Dositheus had been considered to be the most important exposition of the Orthodox faith in recent centuries, but it has fallen out of favor among modern Orthodox.
crivoice.org/creeddositheus.html
Read it. You will find amazing things on hereditary sin, atonement, transubstantiation, seven - no more and no less - sacraments, and purification after death.Thank you for providing a concrete example of the type of work I’ve been looking for. So, is it really out of favor with modern Eastern Orthodox? If so, why?
The UNIFYING factor is not a single person/office and it’s not in a Catechism.So there is no Orthodox catechism that compiles all the beliefs of Orthodox, correct?..no comparable to the Catholic Catechism of the Church, that appeals to multitudes of cultures, ethnics, languages all over the world…that can unify.
The position of the Holy Father is to represent the unity and communion we are called to.
To edit here, then the universal Catholic Catechism in the context I gave in this post indicates the working of the Holy Spirit…one, holy, catholic (universal), apostolic…Wouldn’t it???
So does that mean in your mind that the Eastern Orthodox can never be in communion with any Church that doesn’t use the Byzantine Liturgy?The UNIFYING factor is not a single person/office and it’s not in a Catechism.
In Orthodoxy the UNIFYING factor is the Liturgy we pray and it’s through these prayers, the Liturgical cycle, that we learn what we believe.
Because they are regional. The ordinary mode of operation for the Orthodox Church is local. The Catholic Church always operates on on a universal level, so it is hard to understand how a church can work on a local level, but also claim universality and to be the one true church.dvdjs, thanks for the links on the catechisms.
I do tend to perceive various Orthodox churches as regional however. I know we have over 20 rites in the Roman Catholic Church. See the purpose of the Papacy again…sacred unity that transcends cultural differences and use of language.
I guess it goes without saying that that post was a joke? (It’s always hard to be sure.)Originally Posted by KathleenGee
I do not see a singular catechism that can compare with the universal Catholic Church Catechism.
Actually, the Catholic Church does not have over 20 rites. The Catholic Church is a communion of over 20 (I believe the number is 23) particular churches. Among these churches, there are several different rites, such as the Alexandrian Rite, the Byzantine Rite, the Roman Rite, etc.dvdjs, thanks for the links on the catechisms.
I do tend to perceive various Orthodox churches as regional however. I know we have over 20 rites in the Roman Catholic Church. See the purpose of the Papacy again…sacred unity that transcends cultural differences and use of language.