Catholic and Orthodox: Best of both worlds

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ConstantineTG said:
I know about the possibility that both are wrong, but do you really want to follow a faith that you think has the possibility of being wrong? I mean, if we’re both wrong, then we’re both simply heretics. Isn’t that a sad thought?
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Yes, but Jimmy had been arguing that that is true of Eastern Orthodoxy - no guarantee. Again, look at the second part of my post.
 
ConstantineTG said:
Yes, there is little that divides the EO and OO today. Though we haven’t achieved full communion, we’re closer to one another than any of the other Churches with each other. Some theologians believe union can be achieved within our lifetimes.
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Fascinating to read this. The splitting off of the OO followed the findings of an ecumenical council on matters of Christological heresy, (No such councilar finding has been rendered in the schism of the EO and CC.) Makes you wonder what these schisms are really all about,
 
ConstantineTG said:
Yes, there is little that divides the EO and OO today. Though we haven’t achieved full communion, we’re closer to one another than any of the other Churches with each other. Some theologians believe union can be achieved within our lifetimes.
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🙂 that will be wonderful 🙂
 
ComeHome2Rome said:
EO & OO are both Orthodox - EO are in union with the Ecumenical Patriarch & OO are not. There are also Coptic Catholics are they are in union with Rome. Assyrian Church is Orthodox not un union with the Ecumenical Patriarch, but I’ve also heard that some Assyrian Churches are in union with Rome.

We’re still left with Orthodox & Catholic.
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But we’re talking about three different communions of churches, that departed from communion with Rome at different times for different reasons, and I’m not aware of anyone who calls the Assyrian Church of the East “Orthodox.”
 
dvdjs said:
Fascinating to read this. The splitting off of the OO followed the findings of an ecumenical council on matters of Christological heresy, (No such councilar finding has been rendered in the schism of the EO and CC.) Makes you wonder what these schisms are really all about,
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Yet despite a longer schism (1500 years as opposed to 1000 with Rome), OOs are more similar to EOs than both are to RCs. Makes you think that despite lack of unity, the understanding of the faith and the praxis remains the same. Whereas the RCs are completely different.
 
Yet despite a longer schism (1500 years as opposed to 1000 with Rome), OOs are more similar to EOs than both are to RCs.
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It is not a matter of time at all, it is a matter of conciliar findings.
Makes you think that despite lack of unity, the understanding of the faith and the praxis remains the same. Whereas the RCs are completely different.
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Make me wonder what on earth some people have of their understanding of the faith.
Case in point, St. Vladimir’s seminary already has seminarians who are part of the Malankara Orthodox Church.
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Case in point, SS Cyrill and Methodius seminary has EO clergy as faculty.
 
dvdjs said:
It is not a matter of time at all, it is a matter of conciliar findings.
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And our conciliar findings are the same despite we are in schism. To me that shows a consistency with earlier teaching prior to the schism, which was preserved despite the break.
dvdjs said:
Case in point, SS Cyrill and Methodius seminary has EO clergy as faculty.
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Oh, I have an EC clergy friend who taught at an Evangelical college. The professors, they need to find jobs. We’re talking about the seminarians, those who receive the instruction. It is easy for a professor to filter what they teach according to the theology of the school, its harder for a seminarian to go to a school that doesn’t teach what their Church teaches.
 
ConstantineTG said:
And our conciliar findings are the same despite we are in schism. To me that shows a consistency with earlier teaching prior to the schism, which was preserved despite the break.
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In reality, they are not, and that is the point.
Oh, I have an EC clergy friend who taught at an Evangelical college. The professors, they need to find jobs. We’re talking about the seminarians, those who receive the instruction. It is easy for a professor to filter what they teach according to the theology of the school, its harder for a seminarian to go to a school that doesn’t teach what their Church teaches.
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Yes, people study and work at various schools: even the EP studied at the Pontifical Oriental Institute in Rome and worked as a lecturer in the Pontifical Gregorian University in Rome.

But the cooperation between the seminary of BCC and various Orthodox groups in America is of an entirely different nature; it is something stunning, arguably miraculous… Frankly, anyone who doesn’t appreciate that is not in a position to offer much of anything substantial about the shared world of ECCs and EOCs.
 
dvdjs said:
But the cooperation between the seminary of BCC and various Orthodox groups in America is of an entirely different nature; it is something stunning, arguably miraculous… Frankly, anyone who doesn’t appreciate that is not in a position to offer much of anything substantial about the shared world of ECCs and EOCs.
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Maybe they’ll become enlightened by being around you, and then offer something substantial about the shared world of ECCs and EOCs. :cool:
 
Peter_J said:
Maybe they’ll become enlightened by being around you, and then offer something substantial about the shared world of ECCs and EOCs. :cool:
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Starost ne radost, but it does provide considerable experience.

I have requested that people write about specific issues that then could be discussed. However, beyond posting an objection, it is difficult give a detailed response to blanket swipes about some EC or another not being properly orthodox.
 
ConstantineTG said:
And our conciliar findings are the same despite we are in schism. To me that shows a consistency with earlier teaching prior to the schism, which was preserved despite the break.
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I’m not quite sure I understand what you mean by the term ‘conciliar findings’. Could you please explain that to me.

Also, could you give me some examples of how the Eastern and Oriental Orthodox are similar in theology and/or praxis and how this is lacking in the Catholic Church (and the Papacy is too easy ;)).
 
I thought I read back a bit that someone claimed that in the Orthodox Church there is absolutely no claim to what can be called infallibility? Is that correct? Is there no guarantee made by the Orthodox Church that what is proclaimed as the truth revealed by God in the Orthodox Church is, in fact, the truth revealed by God?
 
dvdjs said:
I do not take it upon myself to overturn the findings of ecumencial councils.
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The other poster said that although EO & RC are currently in schism, they at least have a common pre-schism agreement on the Ecumenical Councils and yet while EO & OO do not have the same pre-schism agreement on the Ecumenical Councils the OOs are none the less closer to EO theologically than RCs are.

You immediately agrued that the other poster was wrong, that EO & RC do Not have pre-schism agreement on the Ecumenical Councils. Now you say that you don’t overturn the Ecumenical Councils…so which is it? I’m confused at what stance you’re taking & even more confused at Why you disagreed in the first place.
 
JMJ_coder said:
I’m not quite sure I understand what you mean by the term ‘conciliar findings’. Could you please explain that to me.

Also, could you give me some examples of how the Eastern and Oriental Orthodox are similar in theology and/or praxis and how this is lacking in the Catholic Church (and the Papacy is too easy ;)).
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EC & OO 1 similarity theologically: neither have a dogma/belief that the Pope of Rome is Infallible

EC & OO 1 similarity in praxis: both practice the same type of pre-Communion & Church-year Fasts
 
JMJ_coder said:
I thought I read back a bit that someone claimed that in the Orthodox Church there is absolutely no claim to what can be called infallibility? Is that correct? Is there no guarantee made by the Orthodox Church that what is proclaimed as the truth revealed by God in the Orthodox Church is, in fact, the truth revealed by God?
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I’ve not read that any Ecumenical Council (pre-schism) ever claimed to be infallible. Have you? We know that what was taught by Ecumenical Council was guided by the Holy Spirit and is true and orthodox and Orthodox. Jesus said that the Holy Spirit sent by the Father would guide the Orthodox Church in all truth, we don’t need any extra guarantee of infallibility. We can take Him at His word without claiming anything extra.
 
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