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EugeneCharles
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Despite all the allegations that were set against him, he’s still a good Pope. He’s chosen by Christ to be the leader of His flocks and he was able to guide even the young people. Viva Il Papa Francesco!
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pnewton
Guest
I think it would be controversial to suggest this has happened since the time the papacy has become separated from the power of the state. There is a reason you have to go way back in history to find examples of bad popes.. I don’t think it controversial that some Popes were bad and there were times of more than one Pope (sometimes even three).
Today, at best, you will find popes that various factions in the Church might view as “bad”.
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pnewton
Guest
It was not a refutation, as I do not even know what your point is, considering the thread title. I did not intend to refute or correct anything, but only to point out that theory and history applied to the topic above is different than the reality of today.
BTW, there is no necessary contradiction between being chosen by Christ and chosen by the College of Cardinals.
BTW, there is no necessary contradiction between being chosen by Christ and chosen by the College of Cardinals.
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EugeneCharles
Guest
Pope Francis was chosen by the College of Cardinals, but it is God’s Will for him to be the Pope.
Sadly speaking, most of the non-Catholics/even Catholics especially over the internet would say rubbish things about the Pope. And people make it a big deal that Papacy was too harsh during the Middle Ages. They don’t notice the innovation that the Church applied to its teachings today.I don’t think it controversial that some Popes were bad and there were times of more than one Pope
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AlbMagno
Guest
Something worth mentioning is that even bad Popes mantained the correct doctrine, if you read any Bull from a Renaissance Pope, they are all theologically orthodox.
So in my opinion, I agree that the Popes are at least indirectly part of God’s Will (and with this I disagree with the theory of Benedict XVI that they just get chosen by the College that if often quoted here in CAF).
So in my opinion, I agree that the Popes are at least indirectly part of God’s Will (and with this I disagree with the theory of Benedict XVI that they just get chosen by the College that if often quoted here in CAF).
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EugeneCharles
Guest
Vatican II is the greatest of all innovations. If you’re Traditionist you may not like it very much. I’m neutral. Both of them are AWESOME
The Church translated the whole Mass to be reachable to the faithful. It’s like the Church made a bridge to God and man. The Church became open to the youth and the ideologies of modern society. Without it, we youngsters and even oldies would find it hard to understand our faith.
The Church translated the whole Mass to be reachable to the faithful. It’s like the Church made a bridge to God and man. The Church became open to the youth and the ideologies of modern society. Without it, we youngsters and even oldies would find it hard to understand our faith.
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Maximian
Guest
Quite right. The Pope is ideologically on the left both in secular and theological terms
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27lw
Guest
Huh. Do you think that the Mass was never translated into the vernacular before the 1960s?Vatican II is the greatest of all innovations. If you’re Traditionist you may not like it very much. I’m neutral. Both of them are AWESOME
The Church translated the whole Mass to be reachable to the faithful. It’s like the Church made a bridge to God and man. The Church became open to the youth and the ideologies of modern society. Without it, we youngsters and even oldies would find it hard to understand our faith.
Jesus must have been on the left side as well. He is the ultimate ‘bleeding heart lefty’.Quite right. The Pope is ideologically on the left both in secular and theological terms
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JimG
Guest
And yet he condemned sin and never advocated for sexual license or abortion or same sex marriage. He even said there could be no divorce.Jesus must have been on the left side as well. He is the ultimate ‘bleeding heart lefty’.
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Maximian
Guest
Not at all. Jesus never advocated any of the left wing causes. Not higher taxes, not state care, not moral flexibility, not rebellion against the establishment.Jesus must have been on the left side as well. He is the ultimate ‘bleeding heart lefty’.
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Maximian
Guest
The common issues in both secular and religious politics aee this: (a) do you think truth and principles are immutable or can they be updated to suit the mood of the moment? (b) do you think that people are basically fallen and it is primarily grace that helps them to do good, or do you think people are basically good and can be trusted to do the right thing if properly educated to do so?
In both cases conservatives would say “the former” and leftists “the latter” and that would apply to both religion and politics.
In both cases conservatives would say “the former” and leftists “the latter” and that would apply to both religion and politics.
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Dadrocks
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puer.dei
Guest
That title implies that Pope Francis called him “deeply devout.” Very misleading.
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Jen7
Guest
He may have done some positive things & his style speaks to many… but he lost me at the goddesses. That’s a big deal. Avoiding honoring false gods just happens to be the first Commandment. Last time I read the Old Testament God made no exceptions for being ecumenical or welcoming. The Pope is married to the Church. The only woman he ought to be facilitating honor of is the Blessed Mother. She must be so heartbroken.All in all, there may be controversial things done under Pope Francis, but there are many more positive ones, that don’t get mentioned as much.
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pnewton
Guest
Nothing new about Red State publishing articles like this. It’s (alt?) right there in their name. Catholic news is best found in Catholic resources.
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Victoria33
Guest
Please submit evidence that Red State is “alt-right” or let these words be seen as being false and possibly slanderous.Nothing new about Red State publishing articles like this. It’s (alt) right there in their name. Catholic news is best found in Catholic resources.
Ad hom attacks, weak argument.
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pnewton
Guest
Fixed it, as much as I will.
It was not an attack, nor an argument. How could I do that? The poster did not even link his source! I am sorry if defending my spiritual Father from unsubstantial slander is so offensive to you. This is a Catholic site, after all. And like I said, Catholic information is best found in Catholic sites. I would say the same thing to someone who went to John MacArthur to post information on Catholicism.
By the way, since when did ridiculing the devotion of another person, a fellow Catholic, become acceptable here?
It was not an attack, nor an argument. How could I do that? The poster did not even link his source! I am sorry if defending my spiritual Father from unsubstantial slander is so offensive to you. This is a Catholic site, after all. And like I said, Catholic information is best found in Catholic sites. I would say the same thing to someone who went to John MacArthur to post information on Catholicism.
By the way, since when did ridiculing the devotion of another person, a fellow Catholic, become acceptable here?
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pnewton
Guest
I looked at the article. That part was misleading and did not happen. It came from an NPR article. I feel like I have to take a shower after reading the Red State article though. It was so bitter and caustic. Use of sarcasm and scare quotes, along with more insults and ad hominems than I have ever seen use here, ironically.That title implies that Pope Francis called him “deeply devout.” Very misleading.
That is the criticism of the actual article and it would stand whoever wrote it. The show that this thread is about was only focused on moral and doctrinal issues, not political one, or more precisely, the issue of simple courtesy. Even GW Bush has congratulated Joe Biden.
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BT3241
Guest
A high profile person has to careful every word can be twisted or misunderstood - he reminds me of Peter his intentions are good but his mouth keeps getting him in trouble.
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