Catholic Ashrams

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They are introducing catholicism in eastern culture. In full union with church. No deviations from the teachings of church.This is eastern face of catholicism which is slowly emerging. Jeusits, Carmelite Monks and Benedictine Monks are giving lot of support to develop the new monastrial culture.

This is not for Europeans. Christianity is already revealed to them in their Greeko Roman Latin culture (the language that they can understand). When christianity is revealed to africans in african culture it grown from 2% of the population to 51% in last century.

This is for Asians. Main goal is to preach Gospel and present christian faith to ordinary people in Asia in their culture. Cultural gap is the main hindrance that christianity faces in Asia.

There is no deviation from catholic faith. 100% faithful to church teachings, liturgy,sacraments, eucaristic and marian devotions. Catholic faith is 100% same through out the world.

asianews.it/news-en/Pope-says-all-nations-must-%E2%80%9Cset%E2%80%9D-the-Gospel-in-own-language-and-culture-15539.html
Just my :twocents: (or tuppence or maybe two paisa?), but it seems to me that such “inculturation” may work (in limited degrees, anyway) for the Latin Church in India, but I am not at all able to see the point of how it applies to Syrian Christians in Kerala. They have been, from the start, both fully Syro-Christian and fully “Indian” (really Malayali).
 
Just my :twocents: (or tuppence or maybe two paisa?), but it seems to me that such “inculturation” may work (in limited degrees, anyway) for the Latin Church in India, but I am not at all able to see the point of how it applies to Syrian Christians in Kerala. They have been, from the start, both fully Syro-Christian and fully “Indian” (really Malayali).
malphono,

I completely agree with you.Syro Malabar church is already quite Indianised. Doing more would be called deviation from tradition! However I feel Latin Church will resist Indianisation more than the Syro Malabar church just because they are not that used to it like us the Syro Malabar guys !

btw, you seem to be little too familiar with Malayalies!!! I see a Mal connection in MALphono!!
God Bless,
Joe
 
I’m sorry I disagree with merging Catholicism with anything Eastern unless it’s Eastern Christianity. The Eastern religions are based on very different principles and their practices are reflective of this.
Eastern religions are different. They are not praying to any eastern Gods.They are 100% faithful to catholic church’s teachings.Christianity is absorbing the simple life style of eastern religions.Main essence of Hindu faith is Peace to whole world , Main essence of Islam is beleif in one God, Main essence of Budhism is Ahimsa (non killing) and Mercy, Main essence of Jainism is non violence and forgiveness.

We can see an union of all these beliefs in christianity. We can see all these things in the teachings of christ. Other religions contains truth but we can see fulness of truth only in christianity. Eastern religions are based one the belief of man searching for God and truth. In christianity we can see a God revealing himself to humanity. A God who took human incarnation and gave his life on the cross for the salvation of humanity.

God has spoken in the past to our ancestors through the prophets, in many different ways, although never completely; (Hebrew 1:1)

They are presenting christianity to people of eastern countries in their culture, a language that they can understand.
 
Hi Jerry,

I didn’t want to attack you or offend you. I was may be completly ignorant. I will have to find some credible material to read about it. Let me know if you already have some other than what you posted already.

Are you in Kerala?

God bless,
Joe
I am a keralite. But Now I am living in Arabia
 
malphono,

I completely agree with you.Syro Malabar church is already quite Indianised. Doing more would be called deviation from tradition!
👍
However I feel Latin Church will resist Indianisation more than the Syro Malabar church just because they are not that used to it like us the Syro Malabar guys !
Perhaps so, but in any case, such “inculturation” must be taken in measure, else it can get into things like [thread=421684]this[/thread] and becomes a recipe for disaster. :eek:
btw, you seem to be little too familiar with Malayalies!!! I see a Mal connection in MALphono!!
God Bless,
Joe
Well, I’ve learnt a few things over the years. 🤷 Not to mention that there was an excellent [thread=585656]thread[/thread] about the SMC in this forum a month or so ago. FWIW, I’m particularly impressed with the Archdiocese of Chanangaserry. 🙂

Oh, and the only “connection” is the Syriac one. 😉
 
Just my :twocents: (or tuppence or maybe two paisa?), but it seems to me that such “inculturation” may work (in limited degrees, anyway) for the Latin Church in India, but I am not at all able to see the point of how it applies to Syrian Christians in Kerala. They have been, from the start, both fully Syro-Christian and fully “Indian” (really Malayali).
These monastries are established by Latin missionary societies such as Jesuits, Benedictains,Carmelites, Salessians, and SVD missionaries. Their main aim is to preach Gospel and reveal christ in eastern culture.

**I will give you a link to an Ashram run by SVD missionaries (Indian Missionary Society) in latin rite.
**
matridham.org/history.htm

**Ishalaya Ashram run by Franciscan Missionaries
**
fmmindia.org/viewmoreweshare.php?action=wes&id=150

There are also indian christian worship centers in protestant churches named Santhigiri Ashram in Marthoma church (A protestant church)

There is also a great Evangelical christian missionary named Sadu Sunder Singh who preached christianity in eastern culture in northern india and Tibet

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sadhu_Sundar_Singh

sadhusundarsingh.homestead.com/files/story.htm
 
I mean no offense to anyone here. I know that some of these communities may be completely orthodox. One cannot judge from external appearances as someone else has rightly pointed out. My only warning is that other communities which are outwardly similar may not be orthodox and may in fact be putting forth some spiritually dangerous teachings and so there is need for great discernment.

Alexander, I highly respect your (name removed by moderator)ut on just about every post you put forth on this forum, but I must disagree with you when you state there’s absolutely nothing to worry about in all this.

Please listen to this excerpt from Dom Griffiths, teaching on how his community practices the chanting of mantras to “illumine” their minds through vibration of sound:
youtube.com/watch?v=-ei_G4wt5rg&feature=related

This is something which is at best self-hypnosis and at worst serious spiritual delusion. As I said, I was once into this stuff and I know how extremely seductive it can be. The chief error lies in the invitation to experience the “divine” and be absorbed into God or a higher reality without any mention for the need of repentance, or even grace, but through one’s own efforts ascending by the emptying of the mind and controlling the breath - which is basically the practice of one form of yoga (not the kind found at the local gym). If you look at one of the links from the OP, you will see “yoga” as part of the daily monastic schedule. This has nothing to do with authentic inculturation.
 
I’m feeling the need to humble myself as I may have come across too harsh in my replies here. I initially felt it was my duty to warn people of possible spiritual danger, but maybe I’ve misunderstood or have jumped to the wrong conclusions. It’s the Church who is capable of passing judgement and they don’t seem to have a problem with it as Alexander stated. As for Fr. Giffiths, perhaps I’ve come across as overly harsh as well. I should clarify that I still very much respect and admire his devotion and his commitment to his monastic vows. As anyone can see from the earlier video, he was a highly charismatic individual with a gentle heart, but more importantly a priest of God and of the Church and so in no way do I judge him. I’ve only become cautious of some of his theology. Just wanted to make that clear.
 
These communities are 100% faithful to church and liturgy. It is a part of inculturisation. Look at the dress of mother theresa. She used saree as dress of her missionary society. But nobody tells that she tried to indianise christianity. Healthy mingling with regional cultures is required for the growth of christianity. Christianity was suceess in Europe because it mingled with Greeko Roman culture that exsisted in europe. That’s why Europeans feels that it is their religion. Christianity is values of life. These christian values can be introduced into different cultures,provided it should be faithful to church’s teachings.

Also blind imitation of another religions rituals is not correct. These inculturisation is doing by close monitoring of vatican. As per best of my knowledge vatican discouraged a recent origin style of holy mass named indian mass. It is a blind imitation of hindu rituals. It is not suitable for christianity. Some people tells that it is banned by vatican.

Main requirement for inculturisation is that it should be able to introduce christ and christ’s teachings to other religions and not to teach other religions rituals to christians.

Even though 2000 years are over , still 67% of world population are non christians. majority of them are in Asia. It is because christianity is appearing as a strange religion to local peoples of asia and they cannot understand christianity as it was introduced in asia by europeans in european culture. So inculturisation is a requirement for preaching Gospel to local people of Asia.
 
Hi Jerry,

I didn’t want to attack you or offend you. I was may be completly ignorant. I will have to find some credible material to read about it. Let me know if you already have some other than what you posted already.

Are you in Kerala?

God bless,
Joe
There is no new teachings about this.It does not teaches any new doctrines or theology. Only catholic faith.Healthy mingling with regional cultures are to be encouraged and blind imitation of other religions rituals (Eg: imitation of Hindu Poojas in holy mass, Using of word OM in catholic prayers) without any rational judgement should be discouraged. If you want to know any thing more about inculturisation , it is advisable you to visit any catholic ashrams near by.
 
I mean no offense to anyone here. I know that some of these communities may be completely orthodox. One cannot judge from external appearances as someone else has rightly pointed out. My only warning is that other communities which are outwardly similar may not be orthodox and may in fact be putting forth some spiritually dangerous teachings and so there is need for great discernment.

Alexander, I highly respect your (name removed by moderator)ut on just about every post you put forth on this forum, but I must disagree with you when you state there’s absolutely nothing to worry about in all this.

Please listen to this excerpt from Dom Griffiths, teaching on how his community practices the chanting of mantras to “illumine” their minds through vibration of sound:
youtube.com/watch?v=-ei_G4wt5rg&feature=related

This is something which is at best self-hypnosis and at worst serious spiritual delusion. As I said, I was once into this stuff and I know how extremely seductive it can be. The chief error lies in the invitation to experience the “divine” and be absorbed into God or a higher reality without any mention for the need of repentance, or even grace, but through one’s own efforts ascending by the emptying of the mind and controlling the breath - which is basically the practice of one form of yoga (not the kind found at the local gym). If you look at one of the links from the OP, you will see “yoga” as part of the daily monastic schedule. This has nothing to do with authentic inculturation.
Well, I don’t think I said we shouldn’t “worry” but worry isn’t a good thing anyway!

I’m not Indian or Asian so I don’t swim in those cultural waters. We can compare what this process of inculturation there is about with what our own tradition has historically done, in my case, the Ukrainian/Ruthenian tradition of Kyivan Rus’. I see many points of similarity in that respect and our own feelings of “Oh my gosh, what is that all about?” 😉 has to do with the fact that Asian culture, especially when intermixed with Catholicism, is indeed quite different from ours.

Certainly, there are dangers in all this. But it is up to the Indian Christians “on the ground” so to speak to study the traditions of India and make the necessary links with Christianity. So did the Cappadocian Fathers and St Thomas Aquinas.

As for Dom Bede Griffiths, he is well respected by both the Catholic and Orthodox as well as Protestant communities in India, not to mention the non-Christian communities there. I don’t pretend to fully understand his thought and contributions, but I tend to trust that he, in his vocation and many life achievements, made headway in his missionary undertakings when, historically, European Christianity simply failed for refusing to distinguish between what is “Christian” and what is “European.”

European Christians committed the idolatry of seeing European culture as the only valid medium by which Christianity is to be communicated, very much like the early Christians who were Jews and expected other Christians to be circumcised etc.

As for yoga and even Zen meditation, these practices can be, and are, Christianized. In Japan, for example, there are Christian Zen temples. I once took a yoga course in a church hall where the focus during the exercises was on the large Crucifix on the wall. Prolonged periods of concentration and silence like that with a focus on Christ on the Cross is a very spiritually refreshing experience.

In North America, we pray far too quickly to “get through” the Office, the Rosary etc. I’m not against fulfilling a certain quantity of prayer each day, God forbid! But we need to balance our North American need for “achievement” and “quantity” with silence and an enhanced quality in our spiritual meditation, reading and prayer.

Hindus wear a three-banded cord like sash over their shoulder. Fr. Roberto DiNobili SJ adopted this practice and said that the three bands represent the Holy Trinity. The Celtic missionaries adopted much of the pagan Celtic traditions, simply “saining” them with the Sign of the Cross and changing their meaning. The Cross of Christ transforms culture and that is our calling in India as well as in North America where, as far as the latter is concerned, a new kind of paganism has gripped our culture here.

Again, ashrams and such aren’t my “cup of tea” because I am not Indian nor Asian. Eastern Christianity as we know it through the Eastern Catholic Churches of Europe are very much part of the European heritage, even though they derive from the Indo-European cultures.

What is “Byzantine” is not “Eastern” in the Asian sense, in fact Byzantine is “New Roman” and when the Oriental Orthodox saw the controversy over icons in the 8th century, they regarded it as a problem in the “Roman province of the Church” meaning both Old and New Romes taken together. So we’re not that far East.

Let’s leave the inculturation of the Asian Christian traditions to those who are dedicated to its study and practice. It will seem foreign to us, to be sure. That shouldn’t raise red flags for us or make us uneasy. North Americans who think they can practice Asian traditions like yoga and zen freely and without guidance are under a strange delusion given the immense cultural gap between them and Asia.

I’ve said enough and those are my thoughts on the matter!

Cheers,

Alex
 
Well, I don’t think I said we shouldn’t “worry” but worry isn’t a good thing anyway!

I’m not Indian or Asian so I don’t swim in those cultural waters. We can compare what this process of inculturation there is about with what our own tradition has historically done, in my case, the Ukrainian/Ruthenian tradition of Kyivan Rus’. I see many points of similarity in that respect and our own feelings of “Oh my gosh, what is that all about?” 😉 has to do with the fact that Asian culture, especially when intermixed with Catholicism, is indeed quite different from ours.

Certainly, there are dangers in all this. But it is up to the Indian Christians “on the ground” so to speak to study the traditions of India and make the necessary links with Christianity. So did the Cappadocian Fathers and St Thomas Aquinas.

As for Dom Bede Griffiths, he is well respected by both the Catholic and Orthodox as well as Protestant communities in India, not to mention the non-Christian communities there. I don’t pretend to fully understand his thought and contributions, but I tend to trust that he, in his vocation and many life achievements, made headway in his missionary undertakings when, historically, European Christianity simply failed for refusing to distinguish between what is “Christian” and what is “European.”

European Christians committed the idolatry of seeing European culture as the only valid medium by which Christianity is to be communicated, very much like the early Christians who were Jews and expected other Christians to be circumcised etc.

As for yoga and even Zen meditation, these practices can be, and are, Christianized. In Japan, for example, there are Christian Zen temples. I once took a yoga course in a church hall where the focus during the exercises was on the large Crucifix on the wall. Prolonged periods of concentration and silence like that with a focus on Christ on the Cross is a very spiritually refreshing experience.

In North America, we pray far too quickly to “get through” the Office, the Rosary etc. I’m not against fulfilling a certain quantity of prayer each day, God forbid! But we need to balance our North American need for “achievement” and “quantity” with silence and an enhanced quality in our spiritual meditation, reading and prayer.

Hindus wear a three-banded cord like sash over their shoulder. Fr. Roberto DiNobili SJ adopted this practice and said that the three bands represent the Holy Trinity. The Celtic missionaries adopted much of the pagan Celtic traditions, simply “saining” them with the Sign of the Cross and changing their meaning. The Cross of Christ transforms culture and that is our calling in India as well as in North America where, as far as the latter is concerned, a new kind of paganism has gripped our culture here.

Again, ashrams and such aren’t my “cup of tea” because I am not Indian nor Asian. Eastern Christianity as we know it through the Eastern Catholic Churches of Europe are very much part of the European heritage, even though they derive from the Indo-European cultures.

What is “Byzantine” is not “Eastern” in the Asian sense, in fact Byzantine is “New Roman” and when the Oriental Orthodox saw the controversy over icons in the 8th century, they regarded it as a problem in the “Roman province of the Church” meaning both Old and New Romes taken together. So we’re not that far East.

Let’s leave the inculturation of the Asian Christian traditions to those who are dedicated to its study and practice. It will seem foreign to us, to be sure. That shouldn’t raise red flags for us or make us uneasy. North Americans who think they can practice Asian traditions like yoga and zen freely and without guidance are under a strange delusion given the immense cultural gap between them and Asia.

I’ve said enough and those are my thoughts on the matter!

Cheers,

Alex
Orthodox churches in india are also in the path of inculturisation. We can see priests wearing saffron coloured dressess. Earlier orthodox churches in india are known as syrian orthodox churches as they are closely related to syrian christian traditions in syria. But now they like to know as Indian Orthodox Church (Keeping 100% faithful to their syrian traditons).

Regarding yoga, christian monastries uses it as a practice for self prayers, silent meditations, physical exercise etc. But does not belive in the eastern ideolgies behind yoga.

Blind imitation of another religions traditions and practices are not good. But healthy integration with regional cultures is required.
 
Orthodox churches in india are also in the path of inculturisation. We can see priests wearing saffron coloured dressess. Earlier orthodox churches in india are known as syrian orthodox churches as they are closely related to syrian christian traditions in syria. But now they like to know as Indian Orthodox Church (Keeping 100% faithful to their syrian traditons).

It seems to me that the difference between the SOC and IOC in Kerala involves Church politics more than anything else.

As for the rest, [post=8383402]as I said earlier[/post] in this thread, such “inculturation” must be taken in measure, else it can get into things like [thread=421684]this[/thread] and becomes a recipe for disaster.

In any case, looking at (emphasis added)

jerry_joseph;8383508 said:
**These monastries are established by Latin missionary societies **
such as Jesuits, Benedictains,Carmelites, Salessians, and SVD missionaries. Their main aim is to preach Gospel and reveal christ in eastern culture.

I still do not see what any of this has to do with Eastern (upper-case “E”) or Oriental (upper-case “O”) Christianity (much less Catholicism).
 
Griffiths wore the saffron robes of a Hindu monk and he took the name Swami Dayananda and intermingled elements of Hinduism and Catholicism in his celebration of the Mass. :eek:
 
Griffiths wore the saffron robes of a Hindu monk and he took the name Swami Dayananda and intermingled elements of Hinduism and Catholicism in his celebration of the Mass. :eek:
Popes wore the mitres of pre-Christian Roman priests, and they took the name “Pontifex Maximus” (the high priest of ancient Rome) and intermingled elements of Greek philosophy into Christianity.:eek:
 
Eastern religions are different. They are not praying to any eastern Gods.They are 100% faithful to catholic church’s teachings.Christianity is absorbing the simple life style of eastern religions.Main essence of Hindu faith is Peace to whole world , Main essence of Islam is beleif in one God, Main essence of Budhism is Ahimsa (non killing) and Mercy, Main essence of Jainism is non violence and forgiveness.

We can see an union of all these beliefs in christianity. We can see all these things in the teachings of christ. Other religions contains truth but we can see fulness of truth only in christianity. Eastern religions are based one the belief of man searching for God and truth. In christianity we can see a God revealing himself to humanity. A God who took human incarnation and gave his life on the cross for the salvation of humanity.

God has spoken in the past to our ancestors through the prophets, in many different ways, although never completely; (Hebrew 1:1)

They are presenting christianity to people of eastern countries in their culture, a language that they can understand.
thanks for the reply. well I guess it depends, are they just using the language etc? or are they using aspects of spirituality, worship, doctrine? (the latter would be incorrect imo)

God bless!
 
Griffiths wore the saffron robes of a Hindu monk and he took the name Swami Dayananda and intermingled elements of Hinduism and Catholicism in his celebration of the Mass. :eek:
Griffiths activities are blind imitations of hindu rituals without any rational judgement. This is not the real inculturisation. It creates irritation in the minds of both hindus and christians.
 
thanks for the reply. well I guess it depends, are they just using the language etc? or are they using aspects of spirituality, worship, doctrine? (the latter would be incorrect imo)

God bless!
It involves using of regional Languages , arts, musics, dances, dressess and cultural traditons. Presenting christian teachings through these to people of those regions. Blind imitations of another religions rituals is not good. It will be a disaster for christians and irritation for other religions (For eg: Indian Mass- a holy mass style which was a blind imitation of hindu pooja, I dont know , but to the best of my knowledge and belief that it was discouraged and banned by vatican). Those inculturisations which lacks to convey the message of christ is also not ideal and useless. The main aim of inculturisation is to give birth to a new christian culture in the east. It should be both eastern and christian. Those eastern traditions which seems to be not suitable for christianity is rejected and those which is suitable for christian faith is accepted. Your protest is same like the protest of Jewish christians (at the time of apostoles) who were against to take Europeans into christianity and accepting European culture. Now European christians stands in the position of jewish christians. They cannot accept new cultures of christianity as it is strange to them. Main thing is that we should not deviate from our catholic faith. We should be 100% faithful to Holy Roman Catholic Church and its teachings.
 
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