Catholic bishop: battle for same-sex ‘marriage’ destroying U.S. democracy

[JaredM]

Jared

You guys just never do get it, do you? You could read the following two sentences a thousand times and you would go on as if you had never read them.

Homosexual acts are unnatural, and there is no lawful requirement for equality of status for those who purposely violate nature. Where in the Constitution does it say that unnatural conduct must be celebrated and dignified with lawful status by fiat of the State?

Homosexuality isn’t unnatural. It’s quite common among animals. Do you honestly think people choose to be gay?

If a black man offered to buy a white man from another white man, and the owner of the white man agreed to the sale, and so did the white man who was sold, would that act be considered Constitutional? Would the black slave owner be entitled to his right to own the white man because all parties were consenting adults?

Last time I checked slavery used to be the law of the land in your state of Texas. That is unconstitutional because you are stripping one human beings or his rights and equality. Homosexuality doesn’t strip anyone of there rights. It’s homosexuals who’s rights are being stripped.

 

[estesbob]

“Yeah how dare those “immoral faggots” strive for equality!!!”
:nope:

An American homosexual adult isn’t an immigrant, sex offender, or underage. They should be given the same rights as everyone else.

People who enage in homosexual behavior have the exact same right to marry as do all Amercians regardless of race. creed , gender or country of national origin

 

[estesbob]

Homosexuality isn’t unnatural. It’s quite common among animals. Do you honestly think people choose to be gay?

Eating their young is common among anmals also-does that make it natural?

Last time I checked slavery used to be the law of the land in your state of Texas. That is unconstitutional because you are stripping one human beings or his rights and equality. Homosexuality doesn’t strip anyone of there rights. It’s homosexuals who’s rights are being stripped.

The idea that people who enage in homosexual behavior are akin to the African Amercian expereience is a patently racist propostion.

 

[JaredM]

Eating their young is common among anmals also-does that make it natural?

How is loving someone unnatural?

The idea that people who enage in homosexual behavior are akin to the African Amercian expereience is a patently racist propostion.

Excuse me? Are you calling me a racist? I am saying that it’s wrong to take rights away from people and attitudes change over time.

 

[JaredM]

All I said was taking rights away from people are wrong. I wasn’t comparing slavery with homosexuality.

 

[estesbob]

All I said was taking rights away from people are wrong. I wasn’t comparing slavery with homosexuality.

Actually that is exactly what you did.

And BTW there is nothing wrong with being in love. We are not discussing love We are discussing whether Ee should change the definition of marriage to accommodate homosexual behavior.

 

[Charlemagne_II]

Jared

*Last time I checked slavery used to be the law of the land in your state of Texas. That is unconstitutional because you are stripping one human beings or his rights and equality. Homosexuality doesn’t strip anyone of there rights. It’s homosexuals who’s rights are being stripped. *

Wrong. Homosexuals never had marital rights to begin with. How can you strip people of something they never had.

Slaves once had freedom rights, but they were stripped of these when taken from Africa to other countries. Texas deeprived these people of their rights because it is unnatural for one man to buy and sell another. Slavery was once common in the ancient world. That never made it natural. Homosexuality was also common in the ancient world, and today as well, but that still doesn’t make it right.

Yes, people choose to commit homosexual acts. There is no force in nature that can make them commit such acts short of a pistol aimed at the head. And sometimes even that might not work.

 

[John21652]

Homosexuality isn’t unnatural. It’s quite common among animals. Do you honestly think people choose to be gay?

Amongst what animals is homosexuality common?

Last time I checked slavery used to be the law of the land in your state of Texas. That is unconstitutional because you are stripping one human beings or his rights and equality. Homosexuality doesn’t strip anyone of there rights. It’s homosexuals who’s rights are being stripped.

Does this paragraph of yours mean that homosexuals are being turned into slaves? That’s the meaning it conveys.

 

[JaredM]

Amongst what animals is homosexuality common?

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homosexual_behavior_in_animals

Does this paragraph of yours mean that homosexuals are being turned into slaves? That’s the meaning it conveys.

That’s not what I meant. What I meant that homosexuals don’t strip rights anyway from anyone. and homosexuals need to have their rights protected. History rarely looks kindly on those how try to prevent equal rights for others.

 

[John21652]

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homosexual_behavior_in_animals

Oh you are kidding me! You quote Wikipedia!!
That’s your definitive source? You need to way better than that.

I have spent the better part of my working life with animals and I can tell you, I never saw any homosexuality amongst them. Animals are hormone driven. Pure and simple. A cow on heat will let anything mount her. A fence post or a rubber glove is all the same to a bull, or a stallion. As long as he gets his rocks off he’s happy. Gets his hormone levels back down, you see! My youngest daughter has a little dog and he tries to hump the cat!!

Anyway, what have animals got to do with homosexuals? Are you suggesting homosexuals are animals?

That’s not what I meant. What I meant that homosexuals don’t strip rights anyway from anyone. and homosexuals need to have their rights protected. History rarely looks kindly on those how try to prevent equal rights for others.

Well, you need to do some homework on this point, because there is now evidence that homosexuals actually do want to strip rights away from others.

There are two cases in England which show this to be the case. The first is about a Christian couple who have been told by the court that homosexuals rights trump their Christian beleifs. Read it here. The second is a case in England where the rights of homosexuality to be considered as “normal” has trumped Christian beleifs. Read it here. Homosexual activism is all about taking the rights of others and trashing them. Do your homework.

In the case of societies founded on Christian principles, those societies which go down the path of granting extra rights to certain citizens are sowing the seeds of self destruction. Just like the Bishop pointed out.

 

[John21652]

Isn’t there an underlying morality behind those examples I cited?

The point I was making, however, was not about moral versus positive laws, but about how some classes of citizens are treated differently from other citizens. Often, it is immoral to treat them as being unequal.

The other point to make is if you willingly accept laws not based on any morality, then from whence comes the moral authority of those laws? If there is no moral authority attached to those laws, why should anyone bother to heed them?

 

[JaredM]

Oh you are kidding me! You quote Wikipedia!!

To be fair quoting Wikipedia is how I got though high school.

There are two cases in England which show this to be the case. The first is about a Christian couple who have been told by the court that homosexuals rights trump their Christian beleifs. Read it here. The second is a case in England where the rights of homosexuality to be considered as “normal” has trumped Christian beleifs. Read it here. Homosexual activism is all about taking the rights of others and trashing them. Do your homework.

In the case of societies founded on Christian principles, those societies which go down the path of granting extra rights to certain citizens are sowing the seeds of self destruction. Just like the Bishop pointed out.
Just because Christians think a certain way doesn’t mean they can ignorant or persecute homosexuals. That’s not very Christ like.:nope:

 

[John21652]

To be fair quoting Wikipedia is how I got though high school.

That’s shameful.

Just because Christians think a certain way doesn’t mean they can ignorant or persecute homosexuals. That’s not very Christ like.:nope:

You are right. That’s why the Catholic Church says to not persecute homosexuals. They are always most welcome in the Church provided they adhere to certain moral values, just like everyone else.

However, you have not addressed the point I made about the inequalities being forged via the laws enacted in England. The homosexual lobby is on a power trip and discrimination is one of their tools. It is undermining British society. Just like the Bishop said. Read about it for yourself.

 

[Elizabeth502]

homosexuals need to have their rights protected.

Their rights (which have not been determined to include marriage in this country) are being protected and have been protected.

Specific Rights:
Freedom of speech.
No discrimination in employment, housing, education, private clubs. (Forbidden by Federal law)
No restriction on free association among individuals, including whatever behavior is desired within those private associations.
In many States, contractual partnerships giving them exactly the same tax benefits as married heterosexual couples, as well as hospital visiting rights, insurance coverage, etc.
Access to modern reproductive technologies furthering conception of new life.
No restriction on whom they can love.
In regions where a Catholic diocese is located within a civil jurisdiction formalizing protection of partnerships, the diocese must also comply with civil regulations coveirng such protection – for example, the same leave for bereavement granted to blood relatives or heterosexual spouses, etc.

Additional Privileges not categorized as Rights:
In many faith traditions worldwide, opportunity for ordained ministry, as well as moral precepts which allow for homosexual behavior, as well as formalized unions.
In many faith traditions worldwide, religious ceremonies celebrating “marriages,” unions, and all the rites of passage which all other members of those communities enjoy.

Possible Preferences which are decidedly not rights:
A guaranteed political platform in all locations where rights have been granted: As an example, equal access to education does not guarantee formal promotion of an alternative lifestyle within that educational institution (whether private or public); as another example, a Catholic diocese complying with local legislation need not espouse the homosexual lifestyle as morally acceptable.

Just note that to many observers, people who identify as “gay” and are also activist about that, consider “rights” to include a demand for political platforms in every facet of American life.

 

[Charlemagne_II]

This help to expose the widespread lies about the acceptability of homosexuality in the ancient world.

youtube.com/watch?v=aHk9JoXoBMY

Enjoy the music too!

 

[kenofken]

The leader of the U.S. Catholic bishops’ committee tasked with defending marriage this week stated that political elites in the United States are subverting democracy and using the issue of same-sex “marriage” to consolidate power into their hands, away from the people.

“It is a curious irony that in this moment of history, when people in a number of countries in the Middle East are agitating for change from dictatorship to democracy, here in our own country, the oldest democracy with a written constitution in the world, there is a movement of the ruling class toward taking more and more power into its own hands,” wrote Oakland Bishop Salvatore Cordileone, chairman of the USCCB ad hoc committee for the defense of marriage, in a column for the Catholic Voice, Oakland’s diocesan newspaper.

lifesitenews.com/news/catholic-bishop-battle-for-same-sex-marriage-destroying-us-democracy

This is pretty rich coming from a member of the ruling class of a special interest group which demands the right to dictate policy decisions to elected officials who happen to be members of their Church. Anybody who believes the bishops are guardians of democracy and pluralism…I have some prime real estate in Benghazi you may be interested in…

 

[JaredM]

Their rights (which have not been determined to include marriage in this country) are being protected and have been protected.

Specific Rights:
Freedom of speech.
No discrimination in employment, housing, education, private clubs. (Forbidden by Federal law)
No restriction on free association among individuals, including whatever behavior is desired within those private associations.
In many States, contractual partnerships giving them exactly the same tax benefits as married heterosexual couples, as well as hospital visiting rights, insurance coverage, etc.
Access to modern reproductive technologies furthering conception of new life.
No restriction on whom they can love.
In regions where a Catholic diocese is located within a civil jurisdiction formalizing protection of partnerships, the diocese must also comply with civil regulations coveirng such protection – for example, the same leave for bereavement granted to blood relatives or heterosexual spouses, etc.

Additional Privileges not categorized as Rights:
In many faith traditions worldwide, opportunity for ordained ministry, as well as moral precepts which allow for homosexual behavior, as well as formalized unions.
In many faith traditions worldwide, religious ceremonies celebrating “marriages,” unions, and all the rites of passage which all other members of those communities enjoy.

Possible Preferences which are decidedly not rights:
A guaranteed political platform in all locations where rights have been granted: As an example, equal access to education does not guarantee formal promotion of an alternative lifestyle within that educational institution (whether private or public); as another example, a Catholic diocese complying with local legislation need not espouse the homosexual lifestyle as morally acceptable.

Just note that to many observers, people who identify as “gay” and are also activist about that, consider “rights” to include a demand for political platforms in every facet of American life.

What about gay adoption?

 

[Elizabeth502]

What about gay adoption?

A privilege. Just as it has always been, and continues to be for heterosexual couples, who have never been guraranteed a child as a “right.”

 

[Elizabeth502]

This is pretty rich coming from a member of the ruling class of a special interest group which demands the right to dictate policy decisions to elected officials who happen to be members of their Church. Anybody who believes the bishops are guardians of democracy and pluralism…I have some prime real estate in Benghazi you may be interested in…

Um, he is exercising his right under freedom of speech to recommend (not dictate) policy decisions. Same as other “members of the ruling classes of [other religious] special interest groups” do. Many of the latter don’t happen to agree with the Catholic bishops. Other religious congregations and traditions recommend contrary policy decisions, as is their right, as well.

Plenty of priests, ministers, and rabbis exhorted their followers (whoops, I mean, “demanded the right to dictate policy decisions”) to stand with civil rights demonstrators in those movements as well.

Wait: That must be wrong. The Left must be able to dictate to religious authorities what they can and cannot say in this country. (Race relations = acceptable; marriage and family policy = unacceptable).

Agree with The Left? You get to have a voice, even if you are a representative of a religious institution and a believer as well.

 

[Charlemagne_II]

Originally Posted by kenofken
This is pretty rich coming from a member of the ruling class of a special interest group which demands the right to dictate policy decisions to elected officials who happen to be members of their Church. Anybody who believes the bishops are guardians of democracy and pluralism…I have some prime real estate in Benghazi you may be interested in…

My recollection is that in the name of equal rights many bishops, priests and nuns marched with Martin Luther King … so you can bury that gasoline soaked rag!