Catholic Bishop in Britain in Attack on Plans for "Assisted Suicide."

  • Thread starter Thread starter mdgspencer
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
M

mdgspencer

Guest
see shropshirestar.com/news/2015/08/01/catholic-bishop-of-shrewsbury-in-attack-on-assisted-dying-law-plans/
Responding to a move in Parliament to legalize “assisted dying” in Britain, so that doctors will give lethal drugs for people to commit suicide, a Catholic bishop there is protesting that this would lead to pressure on people to end their lives. Such pressure can cause sick people to see themselves as a burden. Those in our hospitals “who should be accorded the greatest support,” the most vulnerable in our land, will be pressured to end their lives.
 
see shropshirestar.com/news/2015/08/01/catholic-bishop-of-shrewsbury-in-attack-on-assisted-dying-law-plans/
Responding to a move in Parliament to legalize “assisted dying” in Britain, so that doctors will give lethal drugs for people to commit suicide, a Catholic bishop there is protesting that this would lead to pressure on people to end their lives. Such pressure can cause sick people to see themselves as a burden. Those in our hospitals “who should be accorded the greatest support,” the most vulnerable in our land, will be pressured to end their lives.
Prayers for the truth by the “culture of death” to be revealed for what it really is. May His light of Truth shine and open the eyes of the blind we pray in the most Holy Name of Jesus, amen. St. Michael the archangel defend us!
mlz
 
see shropshirestar.com/news/2015/08/01/catholic-bishop-of-shrewsbury-in-attack-on-assisted-dying-law-plans/
Responding to a move in Parliament to legalize “assisted dying” in Britain, so that doctors will give lethal drugs for people to commit suicide, a Catholic bishop there is protesting that this would lead to pressure on people to end their lives. Such pressure can cause sick people to see themselves as a burden. Those in our hospitals “who should be accorded the greatest support,” the most vulnerable in our land, will be pressured to end their lives.
And let’s not forget all that lovely inheritance.:mad:
 
This policy of euthanasia is NOT acceptable.

Cameron needs to STOP this nonsense.
 
The Bishop is correct in warning about and protesting against assisted suicide. The secular west has lost it’s moral compass and we are all paying the price.
 
What about the Royals. Would they be expected to commit suicide, if for example, the Queen herself became terminal?
 
Given how much the non-Catholic part of my country accords its Catholic bishops at the moment (“they’re all covering for paedophiles” is generally the feeling I tend to get), I sometimes wonder if private prayer and behind-the-scenes discussion, if possible, wouldn’t work a little better.

When push comes to shove, the British public (and most of its politicians) can be so bloody-minded a group of Catholic (or Anglican, but definitely more-so with Catholic) bishops is probably chalking up votes in the pro column to be honest.

To the British secular mindset, while the Church of England is making slow “progress” in re. ordaining women to the episcopate etc, the RCC is seen as so stuck in the past that anything any of its local (or global) leadership says on social issues should be pretty much automatically condemned.

That said, the thing is, the bishop is right, of course. I am glad to see that the one thing the nationalist government in Scotland has done of which I can actually approve, is to say that the law is “fine where it is”. I hope David Cameron (and whoever ends up leading the mess that is currently the Labour Party) has the same guts to stand up for what’s right. They all need our prayers.
 
It’s not like they are making suicide compulsory. Catholics are free to NOT partake in assisted suicide, and they have right to freedom of speech, which includes evangelizing people and convincing them that suicide is not an option. Going beyond that and pushing for legislations which makes your morals the law is a step too far.
The bishop argues that the sick will pressured into killing themselves. Will they really?
It is the sick who want assisted suicide, not their families and the general public. Most people who travel to Switzerland for dignitas are convinced of what they want. And I don’t think families are that heartless that they will expect their sick relatives to “just die already”. What is the bishop implying about human nature?

Pressuring people through secular laws isn’t the answer. You won’t change what they believe, and it will come across as minorities bullying the majority.
 
Yes, they will be pressured to commit suicide, just as women are pressured to kill their children via abortion. I remember very well when abortion was being legalized throughout the world. People said that if killing the unborn were legalized, legalized suicide would be next. Derision and scorn followed, but here we are. We are slowly sliding back into the pre-Christian muck where life is cheap and the vulnerable or inconvenient are routinely killed as a solution to a difficult situation.
 
It’s not like they are making suicide compulsory. Catholics are free to NOT partake in assisted suicide, and they have right to freedom of speech, which includes evangelizing people and convincing them that suicide is not an option. Going beyond that and pushing for legislations which makes your morals the law is a step too far.
The bishop argues that the sick will pressured into killing themselves. Will they really?
It is the sick who want assisted suicide, not their families and the general public. Most people who travel to Switzerland for dignitas are convinced of what they want. And I don’t think families are that heartless that they will expect their sick relatives to “just die already”. What is the bishop implying about human nature?

Pressuring people through secular laws isn’t the answer. You won’t change what they believe, and it will come across as minorities bullying the majority.
Now I see why our world is in such moral mess. God Bless, Memaw
 
Yes, they will be pressured to commit suicide, just as women are pressured to kill their children via abortion. I remember very well when abortion was being legalized throughout the world. People said that if killing the unborn were legalized, legalized suicide would be next. Derision and scorn followed, but here we are. We are slowly sliding back into the pre-Christian muck where life is cheap and the vulnerable or inconvenient are routinely killed as a solution to a difficult situation.
AMEN !! Thanks, God Bless, Memaw
 
And some women have abortions despite their family and partners pressuring them against it. Or they keep it secret from them. It isn’t always done out of external pressure. Some people don’t believe in a human soul. Some don’t even care about the question.

Suicide of the terminally ill and suffering, during the final stages of their life, is not the same as legal suicide in the sense of Futurama-style “suicide booths”. I’m sure it is the latter idea, and not the former, that was scorned and derided.
 
Now I see why our world is in such moral mess. God Bless, Memaw
I can’t tell if you are agreeing or disagreeing with me. Is it in a moral mess because of “moral relativists” like me (I am not), or because people increasingly feel we should rely on the government to teach us morals, reducing them to a system of laws?

My point is that if you want assisted suicide to be regarded as immoral you have to convince people that it is so. Morals have to be genuinely believed, or they are not morals. Telling people what to do is not good enough, it is actually giving up on teaching morals.
 
It’s not like they are making suicide compulsory. Catholics are free to NOT partake in assisted suicide, and they have right to freedom of speech, which includes evangelizing people and convincing them that suicide is not an option. Going beyond that and pushing for legislations which makes your morals the law is a step too far.
The bishop argues that the sick will pressured into killing themselves. Will they really?
It is the sick who want assisted suicide, not their families and the general public. Most people who travel to Switzerland for dignitas are convinced of what they want. And I don’t think families are that heartless that they will expect their sick relatives to “just die already”. What is the bishop implying about human nature?
I think you make good points, Paziego. We have not seen any trends of overall pressure from family/loved ones for a person to choose assisted suicide. If we look at the US and the 4 states where it is legal, there does not seem to be any difficulties in that arena. Nor have we heard from the religious powers that be that there is huge abuse happening.

In the US, legislation is happening state by state. California is wrestling with Aid in Dying currently. In the UK, I believe it will pass; perhaps not this year, but soon.

The religious leaders may want to think about HOW to live with this law, knowing that many people will be considering using it, especially as our demographics see Boomers aging and dying.

It’s never black and white, especially when it comes to end of life concerns. Navigating decisions in the grey area is difficult and challenging.
 
I remember very well when abortion was being legalized throughout the world. People said that if killing the unborn were legalized, legalized suicide would be next. .
Suicide is legal and has been legal for decades (in the US, Canada, the UK, and most western countries.)
 
I think you make good points, Paziego. We have not seen any trends of overall pressure from family/loved ones for a person to choose assisted suicide. If we look at the US and the 4 states where it is legal, there does not seem to be any difficulties in that arena. Nor have we heard from the religious powers that be that there is huge abuse happening.

In the US, legislation is happening state by state. California is wrestling with Aid in Dying currently. In the UK, I believe it will pass; perhaps not this year, but soon.

The religious leaders may want to think about HOW to live with this law, knowing that many people will be considering using it, especially as our demographics see Boomers aging and dying.

It’s never black and white, especially when it comes to end of life concerns. Navigating decisions in the grey area is difficult and challenging.
Well, we’ve already got forces pushing teenage girls getting abortions without parental consent. Think that won’t be seeped into euthanasia?

In a country like the UK with universal health care, it’s going to be tempting to use euthanasia to control end-of-life medical costs, and it won’t be families making that decision, it would be the government. And I could see cases where the family may never know that their family member’s life could have been saved, but alas! Too important to spend the money elsewhere.
 
Well, we’ve already got forces pushing teenage girls getting abortions without parental consent. Think that won’t be seeped into euthanasia?
No. Are you saying that those teenage girls will be euthanized?

In fact, do you have evidence of any girls being forced into having abortions? In the UK, anywhere else?
 
It’s not like they are making suicide compulsory. Catholics are free to NOT partake in assisted suicide, and they have right to freedom of speech, which includes evangelizing people and convincing them that suicide is not an option.
The bishop argues that the sick will pressured into killing themselves. Will they really? It is the sick who want assisted suicide, not their families and the general public. Most people who travel to Switzerland for dignitas are convinced of what they want. And I don’t think families are that heartless that they will expect their sick relatives to “just die already”. What is the bishop implying about human nature?
No, they are not making suicide compulsory, but pretending that the legalization of suicide will only effect stable, mentally competent adults is a touch naive. Normalizing suicide, and thereby diminishing or eliminating “suicide taboo”, will lead to more people to believe that suicide is an acceptable to solution in situations far removed from terminally ill patients. When I was younger, and I was dealing with some fairly intense suicidal ideations, one of the things that helped me was that taboo. Knowing that suicide was a morally wrong or bad thing to do helped me choose to deal with my depression in other ways. I shudder to think at what will happen when suicide is not only legal but common place and normal.

Moreover, legalizing Euthanasia will further remove an incentive to improve our woefully inadequate palliative care system. The average physician receives less instructions about end-of-life care than a veterinarian. Improving training in pain management and end-of-life care, and investing in resources such as hospice facilities, can vastly improve one’s experience at the end of life experience. I suspect if those resources were already put into place, many patients who would currently opt for Euthanasia would decide against it. Unfortunately, once Euthanasia is legalized, the system no longer has an incentive to improve palliative care. Why invest resources in end of life care when when its far cheaper (in terms of money and manpower) to kill your patients? Considering how much socialized medicine is going to be stretched in the coming decades (due to an inverted population pyramid), losing a few disease prone elderly patients will start looking awfully attractive. Beyond the system, I wouldn’t be surprised if the relationship between physicians and their patients changes. As a physician, even if its not vocalized, I suspect it will be awfully to difficult to motivate one’s self to provide the best possible end-of-life care when you think the patient should simply be Euthanized.

And then there is the issue of mental competency. How do you propose physicians judge whether or not someone is “deserving” of suicide. Most physicians will tell you they find it hard enough deciding whether it is appropriate to take away a patient’s license, let alone their life. How many physicians will be able to screen for depression? How many patients will be able to fool their physicians anyways? How many physicians will reflexively sign the papers and get another billable service and maximize their revenue. This isn’t hypothetical: in areas where physician-assisted suicide is legal we know that access to that service is only limited by one’s willingness to shop around.
Going beyond that and pushing for legislations which makes your morals the law is a step too far.
And I don’t think families are that heartless that they will expect their sick relatives to “just die already”. What is the bishop implying about human nature?

Pressuring people through secular laws isn’t the answer. You won’t change what they believe, and it will come across as minorities bullying the majority.
All legislation is one group imposing their morals on another. For example, laws forbidding polygamy are an example of society imposing a tradition of monogamy on people who have no such tradition (e.g. Muslims). Laws restricting drug use are an imposed by people who don’t do drugs on those who do.

Choosing to legalize, or not legalize, an activity has broad, social consequences. When a society actively invests resources into suicide, it is a de facto admission that suicide is a good thing. After all, societies don’t intentionally invest resources in things they think are bad.

Ultimately, there are big problems with end of life care. Patients often experience unnecessary pain, most of which can be prevented. Patients can feel lonely and abandoned by their family. Patients can be afraid to die in in a hospital setting. Patients can feel lonely and scared about facing death. They can feel like they are a burden on their family. They can feel a thousand and one things that might lead them to wonder if a quick, controlled death is the answer. As a society we have two choices: do we walk alongside these patients, help them cope with their pain and suffering, and work on solutions to the very real problems plaguing end-of-life care, or do we just kill them?
 
Legalizing immorality is the current trend. Legalizing assisted suicide is the next, ongoing trend.

I’ve spoken to people who know the abortion clinic routine:

Man: “I’ll leave you if you don’t abort this baby.”

Family: “You/We can’t afford this baby. Abort it.” Especially for scared teens where the boyfriend runs away.

It’s very black and white. Healers should not be killers.

The law is not God or always a good thing. Take responsibility for yourselves. Don’t wait on the law to give the OK to start killing the elderly. And care for your parents and relatives who might be suffering with mental health issues that prevent them from making sound decisions. Death and killing are not good answers. Caring is.

Ed
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top