Catholic Bishops against Arizona legislation

[Jermosh]

This is not a facist law! It is enforcing a Federal Law! Illegal Immigration is a Federal Crime!

Also States Rights, and Soverignty and the faberic of the Nation is at stake?

Would it offend you that there hispanics who are members of the Border Patrol and Police?

Does it offend you that there is a bounty on the Border Patrol by the Drug Lords?

Did you watch the video on how the Pro Illegals were throwing rocks, and water bottles at the Police?

Did you see when The Pro Illegals were making NAZI symbols with beans on the ground? Is that offensive?

This has what to do with racial profiling? As again, how does one profile an illegal alien? One should also becarefull of stereotyping as well, the actions of some should not affect all.

 

[RobbyS]

If they are profiling based on actions, then sure. If they are profiled because they are Muslim then no.

BTW what exactly does a illegal alien act or have a behavior for? I think its naive to state that color will not be a factor in this facist law.

Careful how you use the term “fascist.” It is a factional term, like liberal. conservative, radical, racist, homophobe, papist, queer. Whose aim to to obscure fact.

If there is anything wrong with this law, it is that it places too much a burden on local police authorities. We are facing a dangerous situation: Mexico seems to be a failing state, one that cannot keep the peace in its own territory, cannot provide basic services for its people, cannot offer them the way to make a living. This despite the fact that in terms of raw materials etc, it is one of the richest countries in the world. Now its instability is spreading northward and affecting not only the border states but almost every state.

 

[RobbyS]

There is a town in Eastern Pa. Hazelton, where the Mayor won on both Parties Democrat and Republican. His name is Lou Barletta. He is running for U.S. Congress. He did it and the citizens were happy!

That’s nice. The problem is that business has always against any restrictions on immigration. If the natives – blacks/anglos/Tejanos-- refuse to take jobs for the wages offered, they turn to immigrants. So long as they keep wages below what the unemployed are able to get from the government, the natives won’t take the jobs.

 

[Melvin]

Yup, which is why nobody can produce any evidence of new “papers checkpoints” being developed at this time. It is all speculation by people who are largely ignorant of the law to incite hatred while accusing the “other side” of being “haters.” In that respect it reminds me of the Prop 8 protest fiasco in California not too long ago.

There are certainly already Federal checkpoints at ports of entry and the Hoover Dam. We also have state DPS smuggling check-points and drunk-driving check-points to enforce existing laws.

Nice feature of this law as well: making soliciting work on sidewalks and roads illegal. I suppose you could try to spin that as “checkpoints” for day-laborers. We do, however, already have legitimate day labor centers in Arizona that do not block traffic.

The true design of this law’s enforcement provisions is to make it illegal for Phoenix Mayor Phil Gordon to fire police officers who violate his politically motivate policies and actually check the status of suspected illegal aliens who are stopped for traffic infractions, trespassing, domestic violence, drug possession, public intoxication, etc. If you manage to get yourself a traffic ticket or a night in the drunk tank and can’t produce valid ID, a SSN, or find any other way to validate your identity and legal residence status then the cops should detain you and run your status - no matter what color you are.

• Marty Lund

Amen, Marty. “Probable Cause.”

 

[Malkin71]

As I said in response to your words:
Malkin71: *Why don’t they have signs in Polish, Slovak, Russian, Italian, etc…? *

catharina:  **Go visit the shops in Chicago and San Francisco, 
You'll find such signs. 
Even MORE languages can be seen on signs. 

You mean NOT in Pittsburgh though???
How terribly odd. **

So Pittsburgh has no signs with other “second” languages?
… and Pittsburgh is now in a “rural area?” That’s big news.

Our local Walmart, Home Depot and Lowes does. People are not happy about it!

Learn English!

Can you give me a reasonable response about not learning English?

Did you look at the video of the Illegals throwing rocks and waterbottles at the police?
How about is someone replies in a foreign language here on the boards?
What would the response be?

 

[Malkin71]

That’s nice. The problem is that business has always against any restrictions on immigration. If the natives – blacks/anglos/Tejanos-- refuse to take jobs for the wages offered, they turn to immigrants. So long as they keep wages below what the unemployed are able to get from the government, the natives won’t take the jobs.

That is why we need this law. The Federal Government will not help. Next step Deploy the National Guard and have them patrol the borders.

 

[Malkin71]

This has what to do with racial profiling? As again, how does one profile an illegal alien? One should also becarefull of stereotyping as well, the actions of some should not affect all.

How does one profile an Illegal Alien? The same way the police can go into a neighborhood and spot trouble. By experience, instinct and contacts.

 

[sparkletina]

The whole world cannot come to live here. We have the right and duty as a nation to determine who will.

 

[RobbyS]

That is why we need this law. The Federal Government will not help. Next step Deploy the National Guard and have them patrol the borders.

The law you need is one that requires employers to require some proof of U.S. citizenship of the people they hire,and to fine them substantially if they do not comply.

 

[Malkin71]

The law you need is one that requires employers to require some proof of U.S. citizenship of the people they hire,and to fine them substantially if they do not comply.

E-Verify! Require all Business to comply and fine all Business who hire Illegals!

 

[mlund]

E-Verify! Require all Business to comply and fine all Business who hire Illegals!

It’s already on the books in Arizona. You can even lose your business license for knowingly hiring illegal aliens. Fighting identity theft more effectively is probably the next key step.

Still, ending Sanctuary City policies with SB1070 is a big step. Now city cops and state agencies can’t turn a blind eye to illegal aliens and it’ll be harder to ignore evidence of local businesses hiring illegal aliens. Right now we only get the rare Federal workplace raid and the occasional operation from the Country Sheriff. If the local PD have to police this stuff can have a huge impact on the labor black-market in Phoenix, Tucson, and Yuma.

• Marty Lund

 

[mattyc4]

I’m not familiar with the law so perhaps you can cite the section you find so inappropriate. Or did you just make this up?

Ender

Here:

“…where reasonable suspicion exists that the person is an alien who is unlawfully present in the United States, a reasonable attempt shall be made, when practicable, to determine the immigration status of the person…”

This is line 20 of the bill…

 

[TMC]

A few US Bishops do not constitute the Teaching authority of the Church. Not even the USCCB, which has a lot more US Bishops constitute the Teaching authority of the Church. If the Bishops along the US/Mexico Border want to patrol it and protect the legal citizens, then no one is stopping them.

Two points here: first, the Church has said nothing whatever about this legislation. You cannot seriously believe that the opinion of a handful of American bishops constitutes a doctrine of the Church. Second, while I acknowledge the appropriateness of bishops speaking out on some issues, they abuse their moral authority when they speak out on prudential solutions. Quite frankly I think the bishops have gotten themselves lost in a political wilderness and can’t see the forest for the trees. Their involvement is embarrassing.

Ender

I have found that all Catholics, conservative and liberal, traditional and progressive, agree one thing. They all agree that the bishops speaks authoritatively when they agree with them, and prudentially when they do not.

The Church and the bishops spoke much less clearly during the last presidential election cycle, but lots of folks here found an endorsement of one candidate and a condemnation of the other in their statements. I don’t know where either of you stood on that issue, but it seems to me that those that found an authoritative endorsement there, and none here, are being inconsistent, at best.

At the end of the day I think we agree on at least one thing - the bishops have become too political in recent years, and when they dive into the details of how to accomplish moral goals, rather than merely setting the goals, they risk embarrassing themselves, squandering authority and becoming pawns in political battles.

 

[mattyc4]

How does one profile an Illegal Alien? The same way the police can go into a neighborhood and spot trouble. By experience, instinct and contacts.

Let’s call a spade a spade. This will encourage law enforcement officials to profile Hispanics. Will they deem any Caucasian male listening to an i-pod as suspicious? Or does this only focus on Hispanics…

 

[John_Pascendi]

No way,its in the ten commandments …a rule against stealing! My parents came over and went to Ellis Island,had to show their passports,then to Mulberry street…then out here to the island…those who had no passport were called; ‘wops’…without passport…criminal background etc…Italy was very careful in not giving passports to bad elements!.When a person enters a country illegaly that person is sinning against truth…does the person have a disease that may harm others…TB has come back to our shores!!! Do illegals get free schooling ,go to soup kitchens,free medical help…why are they that way…they are stealing from my pocket…I have worked since being a kid and resent any clergy defending people working off the books and smirking about it. We have tons in town living in apartments that are overcrowded and the landlord is being cheated of proper rent…etc etc…Senator McCain is responsible for this mess in his own state,what a coward to not stand up for honesty at least once. Pas

 

[catharina]

Our local Walmart, Home Depot and Lowes does. People are not happy about it!

Learn English!

Can you give me a reasonable response about not learning English?

Did you look at the video of the Illegals throwing rocks and waterbottles at the police?
How about is someone replies in a foreign language here on the boards?
What would the response be?

Please, force yourself to respond to my question first.
I’m asking you for the third time:

You had said:
Malkin71: Why don’t they have signs in Polish, Slovak, Russian, Italian, etc…?

Then I had said:  
catharina: **Go visit the shops in Chicago and San Francisco, 
You'll find such signs. 
Even MORE languages can be seen on signs. 

You mean NOT in Pittsburgh though???
How terribly odd. **

CONCENTRATE, OK?

So Pittsburgh has no signs with other “second” languages?
… and Pittsburgh is now in a “rural area?” That’s big news.

**
In other words are the 2-language signs in Pittsburgh in English/Spanish?

Chicago, San Francisco, St. Louis, Milwaukee, etc. ANYWHERE where shops/stores
have owners that are bilingual, you might find bilingual signs too.
Get it?  In any immigrant neighborhood.

For example, Polish/English,
Slovakian languages and English
Russian/English
Italian/English
Cantonese/English
Mandarin/English
Norwegian/English
Swedish/English 

ETC.
ETC.
Yet NONE of those combos in PITTSBURGH?**

**Are you saying that in Pittsburgh, only English/Spanish signs are in use?

Please - will you answer that question?**
**(Most folks KNOW that it takes some time to learn English.)**

 

[catharina]

The law you need is one that requires employers to require some proof of U.S. citizenship of the people they hire,and to fine them substantially if they do not comply.

Agree with this post 100%. BRAVO to you, RobbyS

 

[catharina]

E-Verify! Require all Business to comply and fine all Business who hire Illegals!

Malkin71 - RobbyS just said that. (?)
Nice to see you agree with a reasonable suggestion.

Must add “E-verify” means nothing to me.
Guess you’re a tech-head?

 

[catharina]

Here:

“…where reasonable suspicion exists that the person is an alien who is unlawfully present in the United States, a reasonable attempt shall be made, when practicable, to determine the immigration status of the person…”

This is line 20 of the bill…

IOW, use racial profiling.
Thanks for the quote.
Very helpful in this discussion.

 

[catharina]

Let’s call a spade a spade. **This will encourage law enforcement officials to profile Hispanics. **Will they deem any Caucasian male listening to an i-pod as suspicious? Or does this only focus on Hispanics…

YUP. No doubt about it.