Catholic bishops call for end to "inhumane" worksite ICE raids (CNA)

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i think theyre right, it would be a lot more effective to go after the employers and secure the border. like using neosporin to treat smallpox.
 
Isn’t the real root of the problem the economy and social issues in Mexico? If the US Catholic Bishops really want to solve this they need to be working with the Mexican Gov and their Bishops. They can also call in the policies of the US Gov to help. Their is nothing keeping them form solving this at the real root cause.
 
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Catholic_Press:
Washington DC, Sep 10, 2008 (CNA).- Speaking at a press conference in Washington D.C. on Wednesday, several Catholic bishops questioned the effectiven…

Full article…
“inhumane” is just another buzzword. if the raids weren’t effective, the bishops wouldn’t be complaining. congress has got to get this immigration problem under control.
 
If I don’t have enough money to buy stuff and I break into a story and steal stuff will the Bishops support me when the police raid my house and take me away.

After all that’s what these people have done broke into my country and steals millions of tax dollars.
 
If I don’t have enough money to buy stuff and I break into a story and steal stuff will the Bishops support me when the police raid my house and take me away.

After all that’s what these people have done broke into my country and steals millions of tax dollars.
Our country is able to function because of illegal Mexican labor. They didn’t steal anything. I can’t believe I’m hearing this garbage on a Catholic forum.
 
Our country is able to function because of illegal Mexican labor. They didn’t steal anything. I can’t believe I’m hearing this garbage on a Catholic forum.
I think this is somewhat a false notion. Our country is built on businesses like Micro-soft and GM, not people picking tomatoes.

If businesses like agriculture, need temporary workers from Mexico or elsewhere, then get them into the country on a legal status, so that they can work safely and with some protections where they won’t be exploited. Currently here in New England, workers are brought in legally from the Caribbean, to pick apples. Once the season is over, they go home. The rest of the country can follow the same policy, if the desire is really to get good workers, not just the cheapest workers.

However, cheap labor, which illegals are, competes against American workers, have no doubt about it, and its not just jobs Americans won’t do. The construction industry has put hard working Americans out of work, because they’ve been hiring cheap illegals, which helps them out-bid those with legal workers.

Our immigration laws are broken, have no doubt about it and its bad for the country.

Jim
 
There is a question however. It seems the statement is condemning the manner in which the raids are conducted, but not disputing whether it is right or legal to conduct them.
 
There is a question however. It seems the statement is condemning the manner in which the raids are conducted, but not disputing whether it is right or legal to conduct them.
what, in particular, was objectionable? they seem to be treated the way any detainee gets treated. anyone arrested is going to get separated from family, job, home. as long as they’re getting whatever due process they’re entitled to, the bishops’ complaint is unmasked as a gripe about the fact that ICE is enforcing immigration law.
 
I think this is somewhat a false notion. Our country is built on businesses like Micro-soft and GM, not people picking tomatoes.

If businesses like agriculture, need temporary workers from Mexico or elsewhere, then get them into the country on a legal status, so that they can work safely and with some protections where they won’t be exploited. Currently here in New England, workers are brought in legally from the Caribbean, to pick apples. Once the season is over, they go home. The rest of the country can follow the same policy, if the desire is really to get good workers, not just the cheapest workers.

However, cheap labor, which illegals are, competes against American workers, have no doubt about it, and its not just jobs Americans won’t do. The construction industry has put hard working Americans out of work, because they’ve been hiring cheap illegals, which helps them out-bid those with legal workers.

Our immigration laws are broken, have no doubt about it and its bad for the country.

Jim
We have no relevent immigration law. My only point is that none of this is the fault of Illegal Mexicans. The fault lies with our government which has failed to address the fact that we need these people and that there should be a safer way to get the work done. These people come here seeking a means for life and the way they are treated is in so many ways immoral. And yes, our country is built on people picking tomatoes. Our country is still very agrarian and it would grind to a halt if it wasn’t for the immense support of illegal Mexican labor. It’s something I’m quite familiar with, believe me. Aren’t most of GM’s jobs overseas now anyway?
 
the bishops’ complaint is unmasked as a gripe about the fact that ICE is enforcing immigration law.
I think the bishops’ point is that the way immigration law is being enforced is immoral, unjust, and I believe that many advocate immigration reform in general.
 
I think the bishops’ point is that the way immigration law is being enforced is immoral, unjust, and I believe that many advocate immigration reform in general.
owners and management will be fined – with a possibility of jail time which is appropriate.

I’m curious as to the specifics of what is immoral and what is unjust.

at what point do you think “illegal and should be kicked out immediately” becomes “Illegal but they get a free pass because now its immoral and unjust to remove them”?
 
owners and management will be fined – with a possibility of jail time which is appropriate.

I’m curious as to the specifics of what is immoral and what is unjust.

at what point do you think “illegal and should be kicked out immediately” becomes “Illegal but they get a free pass because now its immoral and unjust to remove them”?
It’s not about a free pass. It’s about the fact that immigration law needs serious reform. Until then, it is immoral to pick and choose when to raid people and separate their families, destroy their hopes and dreams, all on a whim. Illegal Mexicans operate with impunity throughout the country, but now, whenever they feel like it, they drop in and raid a whole community. Why is it that some get raided and others don’t? Soon we will see that those communities that actually try to stand up for their rights will get raided first. This is common sense. So now they must live in fear. Kid’s have to worry about when their parents might be snatched away. It’s ugly. It’s immoral. And God Bless the Catholic Church for being the light of the world!!!
 
“X” is born and raised in Mexico. He comes to the U.S. illegally, and knows he is coming illegally. He knows if he gets caught he will be sent back to Mexico. He does it because he will get paid more in the U.S. than he will in Mexico. But the risk, he feels, is worth it.

ICE raids the factory where he works and he gets sent to…Mexico. The difference is that he now has more money than he did when he left Mexico. If his children were born here, they can live in the U.S. and don’t have to go through all the difficulties legal immigrants have to go through to live and work here.

Looks like a net gain to me.

I’m really not seeing the immorality in the raid. Should they perhaps wait until he gets home (if they know where he lives) and drag him away from his dinner table? Or should they perhaps wait until 3:00 in the morning and get him out of bed? The only people who see him picked up in the raid at the factory are the other people who work there, and almost certainly know he’s illegal anyway. And who called ICE in the first place? Probably not the company. Perhaps a legal worker? Perhaps an unemployed person who can’t get a job because of illegal workers?
 
It’s not about a free pass. It’s about the fact that immigration law needs serious reform. Until then, it is immoral to pick and choose when to raid people and separate their families, destroy their hopes and dreams, all on a whim. Illegal Mexicans operate with impunity throughout the country, but now, whenever they feel like it, they drop in and raid a whole community. Why is it that some get raided and others don’t? Soon we will see that those communities that actually try to stand up for their rights will get raided first. This is common sense. So now they must live in fear. Kid’s have to worry about when their parents might be snatched away. It’s ugly. It’s immoral. And God Bless the Catholic Church for being the light of the world!!!
I agree that ICE should uniformly enforce the INA with nationwide sweeps of all businesses.

inducing fear of widespread and frequent immigration raids is a legitimate way of discouraging further illegal immigration (and no one could sanely argue that someone in a foreign country has a right to illegally immigrate), discouraging illegal employment, and encouraging those here illegally to go home.

a common thief could advance the identical argument against prosecution you advance on behalf of the illegals: it would disrupt a family, put kids at risk of having dad snatched away, destroy hopes and dreams.

immigration law does need serious reform. congress has to set into place a reformed system in which the needed numbers of guest workers can come in legally on non-immigrant work visas, work in regulated and safe work environments, and then go home.
 
Ed Rand
We have no relevent immigration law.
Agree! We need a comprehensive immigration law, that allows workers to come in, legally, if they are indeed needed, and American businesses are not merely looking for cheap labor.
My only point is that none of this is the fault of Illegal Mexicans.
They share a big portion of the fault, by coming into the country illegally in the first place.
The fault lies with our government which has failed to address the fact that we need these people and that there should be a safer way to get the work done.
As I stated before, these businesses can get the workers legally, even from Mexico. However, those workers are more expensive than illegals, who they pay under the table.
These people come here seeking a means for life and the way they are treated is in so many ways immoral.
But it doesn’t justify destroying out country in the process.

The cost of illegal immigration on the US taxpayer is enormous. Last winter, the local hospital to me, shut down their emergency rooms, because they had so many illegals to deal with.
And yes, our country is built on people picking tomatoes. Our country is still very agrarian and it would grind to a halt if it wasn’t for the immense support of illegal Mexican labor.
Our country would not grind to a halt, without illegal immigration. Rather, the agriculture industry, would have to pay legal help, more, so it would cost consumers more. However, the benefit would be saving our hospitals and schools, which are feeling the strain of illegal immigration and legal immigrants themselves would benefit.

Also, the crime rate among illegals is high. In fact, I read that 25%of those doing time in our prisons, are illegals.
It’s something I’m quite familiar with, believe me. Aren’t most of GM’s jobs overseas now anyway?
I don’t know. GM’s problem is the unions, but thats a different subject.

Jim
 
Ed Rand

Agree! We need a comprehensive immigration law, that allows workers to come in, legally, if they are indeed needed, and American businesses are not merely looking for cheap labor.

They share a big portion of the fault, by coming into the country illegally in the first place.

As I stated before, these businesses can get the workers legally, even from Mexico. However, those workers are more expensive than illegals, who they pay under the table.

But it doesn’t justify destroying out country in the process.

The cost of illegal immigration on the US taxpayer is enormous. Last winter, the local hospital to me, shut down their emergency rooms, because they had so many illegals to deal with.

Our country would not grind to a halt, without illegal immigration. Rather, the agriculture industry, would have to pay legal help, more, so it would cost consumers more. However, the benefit would be saving our hospitals and schools, which are feeling the strain of illegal immigration and legal immigrants themselves would benefit.

Also, the crime rate among illegals is high. In fact, I read that 25%of those doing time in our prisons, are illegals.

I don’t know. GM’s problem is the unions, but thats a different subject.

Jim
I know a guy, a farmer, who hired illegals. He paid them decently, and they stayed. He then decided it wasn’t the right thing to do, so he got hold of INS or whoever governs such things, and got legal workers from Mexico. He ended up paying more for them than for American workers because of all the red tape and all the requirements imposed on employers beyond just the worker’s paycheck. So he gave it up. He can’t get American workers because we’re in a labor shortage area. So, he changed from growing labor-intensive crops to non labor-intensive crops, thus removing himself as one of the major suppliers of a local canning company that pays very good wages.

I could be wrong, but I feel pretty confident the laws relating to importation of legal workers were written by American unions. He had to see to their nutrition, housing, transportation and all kinds of things in addition to their pay, which is also regulated.

I suspect a program of “guest workers” could be a good thing. But it has to be reasonably crafted, and not just be one more “political football”.
 
My thoughts
  1. Catholic Church has no say so in telling America we cant deport illegal immigrants. I’m sure Vatican City wouldnt appreciate USA telling them what to do with their state.
My personal opinion is: They could care less about the state of these illegals souls, but more for filling their donation baskets in their Churches.
  1. I used to think illegals took “our jobs” - but my ambition was never to be a lettuce picker, busboy or landscaper. I highly doubt those jobs would pay what we as Americans expect - plus benefits - there isnt an illegal who could do my job.
  2. We should enforce GUEST WORKER programs and make them wait in line til its their turn - PERIOD. Why does the Church feel it has a right to tell us to bypass our laws but yet they can enforce their own rules without impunity? HYPOCRISY, imo 🤷
 
I think this is somewhat a false notion. Our country is built on businesses like Micro-soft and GM, not people picking tomatoes.

If businesses like agriculture, need temporary workers from Mexico or elsewhere, then get them into the country on a legal status, so that they can work safely and with some protections where they won’t be exploited. Currently here in New England, workers are brought in legally from the Caribbean, to pick apples. Once the season is over, they go home. The rest of the country can follow the same policy, if the desire is really to get good workers, not just the cheapest workers.

However, cheap labor, which illegals are, competes against American workers, have no doubt about it, and its not just jobs Americans won’t do. The construction industry has put hard working Americans out of work, because they’ve been hiring cheap illegals, which helps them out-bid those with legal workers.

Our immigration laws are broken, have no doubt about it and its bad for the country.

Jim
I agree - America needs to take a queue from other countries and stop thinking ours is the best and only way - its FAR FROM IT
 
“X” is born and raised in Mexico. He comes to the U.S. illegally, and knows he is coming illegally. He knows if he gets caught he will be sent back to Mexico. He does it because he will get paid more in the U.S. than he will in Mexico. But the risk, he feels, is worth it.

ICE raids the factory where he works and he gets sent to…Mexico. The difference is that he now has more money than he did when he left Mexico. If his children were born here, they can live in the U.S. and don’t have to go through all the difficulties legal immigrants have to go through to live and work here.

Looks like a net gain to me.

I’m really not seeing the immorality in the raid. Should they perhaps wait until he gets home (if they know where he lives) and drag him away from his dinner table? Or should they perhaps wait until 3:00 in the morning and get him out of bed? The only people who see him picked up in the raid at the factory are the other people who work there, and almost certainly know he’s illegal anyway. And who called ICE in the first place? Probably not the company. Perhaps a legal worker? Perhaps an unemployed person who can’t get a job because of illegal workers?
It costs Mexicans thousands of dollars to get to the US and some may die in crossing the desert. These are peoples fathers, wives, sons. Were’s the gain?
Why wouldn’t the company call ICE? What if checks were due? What if there were grumbings from “uppity” illegals? The employers cover their own hides by making sure the workers have Social Security Cards–which are all obviously fake, I’ve seen them.

Anyway, here’s a good story I found from an interpreter who was involved in a large immigration raid on June 13, 2008.

graphics8.nytimes.com/images/2008/07/14/opinion/14ed-camayd.pdf

Note that the main charge is about Social Security Fraud. Here’s what’s important to remember. Because the employer accepts these obviously false cards, he also has to pay the government what he would have to pay for any normal citizen. That is millions and millions of dollars that goes to the government for social security that these people will never collect. And were all stunned that the government cant’ seem to change the horrid immigration situation…

Read the story. Quite relevant to the discussion. Can anybody find out an instance where the employer faced jail time or substantial penalties? I doubt it.
 
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