Catholic bishops call for end to "inhumane" worksite ICE raids (CNA)

[Ridgerunner]

It must be realized that illegals do not only pick tomatoes and lettuce. I have known a lot of them, and most of them either have industrial jobs or work in construction. While perhaps most take jobs Americans won’t do, some definitely do take jobs Americans would do.

It’s actually pretty hard for employers to not hire illegals. If the identification appears valid on its face, they are prevented by law from further investigating. So, if the illegal buys a good ID set, there is nothing the employer can do about it.

Well, there’s one thing. Some nervous employers are “in league” with ICE, and invite “raids” when they think they probably have illegals on the floor. ICE can, then, investigate the individuals. But the employers can’t. Many of these plants that get “raided” have actually had ICE in the plant before, on a voluntary or invited basis, going through the copies of the employee ID. If they find enough illegals for a “raid”, they then do the “raid”. If they don’t, there’s no “raid”. Employers sometimes do that to avoid getting nailed for “hiring illegals” sometime or other.

You can just about tell which employers are which by the amount of “fine” they pay. If it’s laughably small, they probably invited it themselves and are just paying ICE’s time and expense. If it’s really large, probably other employees or unemployed people gave ICE the information. A lot of raids happen because other employees call ICE. I have known of legal alien workers calling ICE on the illegal ones. Generally speaking, legal alien workers are not too supportive of the illegal ones, and tend to resent them.

 

[JimR-OCDS]

Here in Massachusetts, the recent raid was on a factory, not a farm. The majority of illegals came from Brazil and Guatemala, but there were Haitians and Dominicans as well.

Ironically, as a result of information obtained in the raid, law enforcement officials manage to apprehend some illegals who were wanted for major crimes, including rape and murder.

Our local Bishops protested the raid.

The good part is, Americans ended up being hired for the jobs the illegals were doing. In fact, the company couldn’t hire all that applied.

Jim

 

[Wirraway]

… Can anybody find out an instance where the employer faced jail time or substantial penalties? I doubt it.

google is your friend. or, perhaps not.


Jail Time for Employer Using Illegal Alien Subcontractors!

 

[Ed_Rand]

Generally speaking, legal alien workers are not too supportive of the illegal ones, and tend to resent them.

Does anyone know what it takes for a Mexican or Guatemalen or Honduran to get a US work visa? What kind of process is it?

 

[stinkcat_14]

My personal opinion is: They could care less about the state of these illegals souls, but more for filling their donation baskets in their Churches.

Now there is a lucrative market for the Bishops! Let’s see, the average illegal makes about $5.50 per hour. So if they work full time, that is about $11,000 per year. If they give 5% of their gross to the church, that is about $10 per week. That of course, assumes that they go to church every week.

Yep, those Bishops are just after their money

 

[Ed_Rand]

Now there is a lucrative market for the Bishops! Let’s see, the average illegal makes about $5.50 per hour. So if they work full time, that is about $11,000 per year. If they give 5% of their gross to the church, that is about $10 per week. That of course, assumes that they go to church every week.

Yep, those Bishops are just after their money

Yeah, and all the volunteer work and catechizing done for illegal immigrants in my parish is all a big scam too. It’s a shame for the Catholic Church to be condoning such treason. Perhaps before recieving the sacraments these people should be required to submit valid ICE-approved documents. After all, the Catholic Church shouldn’t be aiding and abetting these criminals.

 

[Lynn-D]

It’s not about a free pass. It’s about the fact that immigration law needs serious reform. Until then, it is immoral to pick and choose when to raid people and separate their families, destroy their hopes and dreams, all on a whim. Illegal Mexicans operate with impunity throughout the country, but now, whenever they feel like it, they drop in and raid a whole community. Why is it that some get raided and others don’t? Soon we will see that those communities that actually try to stand up for their rights will get raided first. This is common sense. So now they must live in fear. Kid’s have to worry about when their parents might be snatched away. It’s ugly. It’s immoral. And God Bless the Catholic Church for being the light of the world!!!

Sorry but on this I totally disagree with the Bishops.

If they are so tolerant of those who break our laws and cross our borders illegally then why not suggest a means to thwart their entry in the first place instead of giving them, if not sanction, then support.

If an immigrant comes into this country legally I will help them and hold the door open. If they cross into this country illegally then I will help shut the door to the jails all lawbreakers should be taken to.

One point is that often many who come into this country illegally come alone and later send for their families. This is not just someone coming for a season to ‘pick produce’ but someone who plans on becoming a longtime illegal alien.

We have a right to secure our borders. If the Catholic Bishops support open borders then come out and say just that. Otherwise might I suggest all Catholic Churches leave their doors open 24/7 so that I a practicing Catholic might at least avail myself anytime of the solace I receive while in the company of the Holy Eucharist in the tabernacle on the altar of my church? My Catholic Church locks its doors unless a mass or meeting is scheduled so how then might I disagree our priests right to do just that when our Bishops argue for tolerance of open borders which as a citizen of the U.S I totally disagree with.

Lynn-D

 

[Ed_Rand]

Sorry but on this I totally disagree with the Bishops.

If they are so tolerant of those who break our laws and cross our borders illegally then why not suggest a means to thwart their entry in the first place instead of giving them, if not sanction, then support.

If an immigrant comes into this country legally I will help them and hold the door open. If they cross into this country illegally then I will help shut the door to the jails all lawbreakers should be taken to.

One point is that often many who come into this country illegally come alone and later send for their families. This is not just someone coming for a season to ‘pick produce’ but someone who plans on becoming a longtime illegal alien.

We have a right to secure our borders. If the Catholic Bishops support open borders then come out and say just that. Otherwise might I suggest all Catholic Churches leave their doors open 24/7 so that I a practicing Catholic might at least avail myself anytime of the solace I receive while in the company of the Holy Eucharist in the tabernacle on the altar of my church? My Catholic Church locks its doors unless a mass or meeting is scheduled so how then might I disagree our priests right to do just that when our Bishops argue for tolerance of open borders which as a citizen of the U.S I totally disagree with.

Lynn-D

I believe the article stated that the Church has never supported open borders and that every government has a right to protect its borders. The problem they have is that, as it is, the system is rife with injustice and the first step is immigration reform. Criminalizing 12 million people, jailing them, terrorizing them, is immoral. Read the many violations of human dignity described here.

 

[Thinks4Himself]

Now there is a lucrative market for the Bishops! Let’s see, the average illegal makes about $5.50 per hour. So if they work full time, that is about $11,000 per year. If they give 5% of their gross to the church, that is about $10 per week. That of course, assumes that they go to church every week.

Yep, those Bishops are just after their money

Hispanics generally have VERY LARGE families - very large families = more butts in the pew = more $

Dont delude youself the bishops are protesting more for these peoples salvation and rights than for CASH - The Church has paid out MILLIONS upon MILLIONS on playing hide/shuffle the priests thanks to their ginormous sex scandels which = less money and donations.

 

[Ed_Rand]

Just a thought:

We all know that when times get bad in a country, the people and government look for a scapegoat. You can trust that as our nation hits harder times, Illegal immigrants will be assaulted in various ways and it will only get worse. It seems quite possible that this will bring our Church into increasing conflict with the state.

Hispanics generally have VERY LARGE families - very large families = more butts in the pew = more $

This sort of stuff will get more and more common.

 

[Ridgerunner]

Now there is a lucrative market for the Bishops! Let’s see, the average illegal makes about $5.50 per hour. So if they work full time, that is about $11,000 per year. If they give 5% of their gross to the church, that is about $10 per week. That of course, assumes that they go to church every week.

Yep, those Bishops are just after their money

I can’t say what they make where you live, but around here they make a lot more than that. They make the very same wage everybody else makes for the same work. Most of them work in factories or in construction. Most illegals I know get a lot of overtime and have money. I’m sure there are illegals somewhere who live in real poverty. But around here they sure don’t.

However, I would have serious doubts whether these bishops are motivated by money coming into the collections. I suspect they just don’t have much idea what the lives of illegals really are like.

 

[Ed_Rand]

I’m sure there are illegals somewhere who live in real poverty.

rest assured.

I suspect they just don’t have much idea what the lives of illegals really are like.

what would give you that idea? what’s that assumption based on?

 

[Lynn-D]

I believe the article stated that the Church has never supported open borders and that every government has a right to protect its borders. The problem they have is that, as it is, the system is rife with injustice and the first step is immigration reform. Criminalizing 12 million people, jailing them, terrorizing them, is immoral. Read the many violations of human dignity described here.

Let me understand what you are actually saying… we are criminalizing and jailing actual criminals and that is somehow immoral? They are only terrorized in reaction to their own fear of being caught is how many of us see it.

Reform comes first, then crossing the border comes next. Not the other way around.

If someone breaks into my home the police have a right to chase them down and even obtain warrants to enter places where they might be living, hiding or even working. How then might you separate that felon who illegally enters my home from someone who illegally enters my country? Both committed an ILLEGAL act and to hold one responsible while excusing the other is not justice but something other than the rule of law.

Illegals are just that and should not expect some ‘special privilege’ and cry foul when they are caught.

Lynn-D

 

[Contarini]

“inhumane” is just another buzzword.

I see. No doubt the Nazis said the same thing.

And no, I’m not saying you’re evil like the Nazis. Only that dismissing charges of inhumanity as “buzzwords” hardens your heart and allows you to push whatever ideology you may wish without your conscience interfering. It is a very dark road.

Edwin

 

[Contarini]

Let me understand what you are actually saying… we are criminalizing and jailing actual criminals and that is somehow immoral?

Are you saying that anyone the government decrees to be a criminal is therefore an immoral person? Are you saying that governments cannot act unjustly?

Laws about border regulations are in existence to serve the common good. When twelve million people have felt impelled to disobey these laws, the laws are clearly not serving the common good and need to be changed. There is no moral high ground in insisting on enforcing a law just because it has been passed by some government or other.

If someone breaks into my home the police have a right to chase them down and even obtain warrants to enter places where they might be living, hiding or even working. How then might you separate that felon who illegally enters my home from someone who illegally enters my country?

Very simply. Because a country isn’t a home. The analogy is specious.

Breaking into someone’s home violates their human dignity. Crossing the border of their country without permission from the government does not.

Both committed an ILLEGAL act

I see. So all illegal acts are equal? Are you sure you really want to defend this.

Some illegal acts are intrinsically wrong (and these are of widely varying degrees of gravity). Others are not intrinsically wrong but are properly forbidden by the government for the common good. Others are actually good and the government is unjust in forbidding them.

Edwin

 

[Contarini]

My thoughts

1. Catholic Church has no say so in telling America we cant deport illegal immigrants.

Does it have a say so in telling America that we can’t abort unwanted children? I believe it does. Same here. The Church rightly speaks out on all moral issues.

I’m sure Vatican City wouldnt appreciate USA telling them what to do with their state.

The Church is not the same thing as Vatican City. And what a state appreciates is irrelevant. There is no reason (except for pragmatic ones) that the Church should care. The Church was not established in order to flatter the rulers of this world, but to act as an outpost of the Kingdom, the stone cut from the mountain without hands which will smash all the kingdoms of this world (and yes, that includes democracies).

Edwin

 

[Thinks4Himself]

Good - then Vatican can start sharing in the U.S’ welfare programs, and send money to our Govt, etc if they think illegals have a right to live here -LET THE VATICAN PAY FOR THEM!

 

[Ridgerunner]

**Re the prevalence of poverty among illegals. **

what would give you that idea? what’s that assumption based on?

It’s not an assumption, Ed Rand, it’s what I see with my own eyes. I know lots of illegals, and have dealt with them for years. I would not, however, presume to deny that it’s different where you live.

I have seen a lot deported. I have seen a lot simply go back to where they came from if they couldn’t get sufficient employment, or if they earned enough to buy a store or farm or whatever back where they came from. The deportees seem to take it pretty well, though they don’t like it. In any event, a significant number of the ones who get deported just come back with a different set of ID. I have seen plenty of that.

I have also listened to the complaints of the local Mormons and Protestant preachers about getting “used” by illegals who have heart-rending stories and pretend to be interested in “converting”, but then disappear as soon as the goodies run out. I had one preacher bitterly complain to me when one such illegal later bought the preacher’s own house. He didn’t know who he was selling to until the closing. People tend to assume illegals are stupid or something, and are just at our mercy. But, around here anyway, they’re not. They’re just as smart as anybody else, and a lot of them are a whole lot cagier. Getting what you want in the U.S. is a piece of cake for someone who was raised in a place like Mexico.

I don’t begrudge people trying to improve their lives. I don’t. But around here anyway, the whole thing is a net gain for illegals.

Everyone’s perspective is different, I guess. I don’t question your observations at all. But if, where you are, it’s anything like it is here, these bishops are being “gamed”.

 

[ontologysue]

Our country is able to function because of illegal Mexican labor. They didn’t steal anything. I can’t believe I’m hearing this garbage on a Catholic forum.

Wrong! We just had an illegal alien who had been arrested 16 times previously, and the law enforcement jurisdictions never checked his immigration status even though he had no drivers license, ss card or anything else to prove he should be in this country—run an SUV into a truck, killing both the driver and passanger, then the truck slammed into a Baskin Robins killing a 3 year old little boy enjoying an ice cream cone!

This is happening all over this country and when the Catholic Bishops encourage illegals to break our laws and our sovereignty, really out of greed, to enhance their parish membership, the blood of these innocents is also on their hands.

The hospitals in the border states are going bankrupt trying to treat all these illegals, the land owners are losing their property and their livestock due to the actions of illegals.

I went to Roman parish last week, the priest made a big deal about how they now have a spanish mass…sorry, that is rediculous. The whole “compassion” argument is a transparent rationalization to try to build up chuch rolls; meanwhile, Americans are being raped and pillaged by gang violence in in the big cities, hospitals closing, citizens losing their livelihood and property AND the wages for Americans being lowered.

Why don’t you tell the parents of that 3 year old little boy that illegals are just fine!

Sorry, but this kind of thing is happening everywhere and I am fed up with Bishops who encourage it. Priest ought to get up at the pulpit and say: if you are an illegal you are breaking the law and hurting other innocent brothers and sisters in Christ. You need to report it and start over legally!

End of rant…

 

[Ed_Rand]

It’s not an assumption, Ed Rand, it’s what I see with my own eyes.

That’s not what I was addressing with that comment. That was sort of disingenuous for you to modify my quote in such a way. I wasn’t questioning your own observations. I was questioning where you got the idea that the bishops don’t understand the “reality” of life as an illegal. Some of these bishops and priests have been there first-hand to watch the devastation of these raids. They might also have a better knowledge of the situation since they have the most intimate contact with illegals who go to confession. You still haven’t explained how you come to the conclusion that bishops across the country are being “gamed”. Actually, I don’t expect an explanation because you really couldn’t have any knowledge of such a thing.