Catholic Bishops Call for Faithful to Protest Obama Mandate

[Bubba_Switzler]

Catholic bishops ratcheted up the pressure on President Barack Obama’s birth control mandate on Tuesday, calling for the faithful to protest plans to force employers to provide contraceptives in their health insurance plans.

New York Archbishop Timothy Dolan, who heads the U.S. Conference of Catholic Bishops, said it is “getting harder and harder” to believe Obama’s commitment to religious freedom, while Cardinal Donald Wuerl , the archbishop of Washington, said it is time to “speak up and protest.”

The extra push came on the same day that a new Rasmussen Reports poll showed that Obama’s popularity has plummeted among Catholics, with 44 percent saying they strongly disapprove of the job the president is doing.

"Does the federal government have the right to tell a religious individual or a religious entity how to define yourself?"Dolan said during an interview with the Associated Press in Rome, where he is due to be elevated to cardinal on Saturday. “This is what gives us greater chill.”

Dolan said the concession made by the administration, which takes the responsibility for providing contraceptive services away from religious-backed organizations such as churches, schools, and universities and puts it on to the insurers, did not go anything like far enough.

Dolan initially termed the compromise as a step in the right direction after hearing about it on Friday morning. But by the end of the day, he had altered his position. Before leaving for Rome, he issued a statement saying the “lack of clear protection . . . is unacceptable and must be corrected.”

In the AP interview, Dolan pointed out that many Catholic institutions are self-insured, so the moral issue remained unchanged.

“Was what was intended to be a concession, and what gave us a glimmer of hope at the beginning . . . really just amount to a hill of beans?” Dolan said. “It seems as if it does.”

He said he would support Republican-backed legislation now under way in Congress that would allow any employer to deny birth-control coverage if it is against their religious or moral beliefs. The White House on Monday termed the proposed legislation “dangerous and wrong.”

Dolan said the U.S. bishops will now work hard to support that legislation. “I couldn’t see why the president would have any consternation, because he said to me that religious freedom remains sacrosanct. Well, let’s legislatively guarantee it,” he said.

Cardinal Wuerl went one step further by saying it is time for members of all faiths to protest the move. “People need to speak up,” he said on the Fox News show “America’s Newsroom.” He described the mandate as forcing the church to pay for “immoral activities.”

“We still have to get to the more basic issue and that is the fundamental freedom of religious faith-based groups to carry out their ministry unimpeded by government directives.

“There’s one thing in the heart of this nation that we’re counting on, and that’s the basic fairness of the American people,” Wuerl added.

The White House made clear at the weekend that it has no intention of changing the regulations for a second time. “Our policy is clear,” Chief of Staff Jacob Lew told Fox News’ Chris Wallace.

newsmax.com/Headline/dolan-wuerl-obama-bishops/2012/02/14/id/429381

 

[DaveBj]

Thank God, in our state, and in our Congressional district, we already know that our Congressman and Senators are going to come down on the correct side of this one.

 

[northernstar]

Honesty above rules. How many Catholics out there practice planned parenthood? The majority. How many want to see a more adaptive but strong Church, all of us.

I think it is silly to destroy a President on one issue. The opposition has done nothing but block or knock what Obama has tried to do as President. So how can I know their agenda. It is kept secret. All I know is they propose to elect policies that worked 60 years ago, and they have no acceptance of the global world as it is today.

Which brings me to the original argument, is it wise to protest something that is chiefly religous based. If Catholics, Jews, Muslims or the other faiths reject a practice it is their right. But what has that got to do with a Health Plan.

I don’t accept all prescription drugs as useful, so should I ban everyone who needs or choses to use them?

Your faith should be stronger than a ‘open’ plan that give you access to the things you know are not in keeping with those beliefs.

So, in the end I do not get the argument – it looks political or at least grand standing.

 

[Bubba_Switzler]

I think it is silly to destroy a President on one issue…
So, in the end I do not get the argument – it looks political or at least grand standing.

Let me simplify it for you:

Obama chose this issue, not his opponents and certainly not the bishops. The bishops have made a stand. They have not generally been opponents of Obama.

We are now at the point where either the law is changed or bishops start going to jail.

It’s that simple.

So pick a side: Obama or the bishops.

 

[hudson]

Honesty above rules. How many Catholics out there practice planned parenthood? The majority. How many want to see a more adaptive but strong Church, all of us.

I think it is silly to destroy a President on one issue. The opposition has done nothing but block or knock what Obama has tried to do as President. So how can I know their agenda. It is kept secret. All I know is they propose to elect policies that worked 60 years ago, and they have no acceptance of the global world as it is today.

Which brings me to the original argument, is it wise to protest something that is chiefly religous based. If Catholics, Jews, Muslims or the other faiths reject a practice it is their right. But what has that got to do with a Health Plan.

I don’t accept all prescription drugs as useful, so should I ban everyone who needs or choses to use them?

Your faith should be stronger than a ‘open’ plan that give you access to the things you know are not in keeping with those beliefs.

So, in the end I do not get the argument – it looks political or at least grand standing.

Are you even Catholic? If you are go read up on what the Church teaches about contraception. After you grasp that, then try and understand why there would be a problem when the government forces the Church to go against a fundamental teaching by purchasing contraception for its employees. It doesnt matter how many self proclaimed Catholics do something that is against Church teaching, they are wrong. Catholics should believe and follow all teachings of the Church, not just ones they like. As far as an adaptive Church, I dont want that. I want a strong defender of the truth whether modern man likes it or not.

 

[northernstar]

Are you even Catholic? If you are go read up on what the Church teaches about contraception. After you grasp that, then try and understand why there would be a problem when the government forces the Church to go against a fundamental teaching by purchasing contraception for its employees. It doesnt matter how many self proclaimed Catholics do something that is against Church teaching, they are wrong. Catholics should believe and follow all teachings of the Church, not just ones they like. As far as an adaptive Church, I dont want that. I want a strong defender of the truth whether modern man likes it or not.

Thank you so much for your reasoned reply. No I am not Catholic, but am married to one. I mean he married me – in a non-catholic setting. I love him and do my best to understand his faith. But at times I do question things, that is why I am here to see if I am a complete a…hole, or just a learner.

I am not American, but Canadian, so we see US news 24 / 7 along with our own news,so it seems like we are the same, but cousins. Loving but different cousins. OKay that has been cleared up.

I do not know what you mean when you say " a defender of the truth", do we not look for that all our lives an adapt and change as we learn, mature, and age. So, I think the RC Church needs to adapt to the fact that there are other faiths out there and they have to stay strong - internally. One’s faith should be their barometer, not what goodies life offers and in this case contraceptives. You the Catholic should be saying no, not the Church having to hammer it into your head by regulation or rule. You should just know this is a choice I will never make.

IT should not ban those that chose it. They have to decide their own fates or faith. So, it is out there so is alcohol, drugs, prostitutes, and other temptations. Your faith in your Church is what makes you say no, not availablity.

I don’t like how Muslims treat their women, but I am not going to ban them from my spear of knowing. I don’t like how shareholders have one interest, money. But I am not going to stop consuming goods.

What I am saying is you have to separate yourself from what is wrong, or unacceptable in your views. It may be the truth, there certainly a thread of truth in religion to have it lasted so long into societies futures.

Truth has to be tested and questioned. Like steel it has to be tempered. That is what I have learned in my life search for the truth.

God exist that I have come to know, how to interact with him or Christ that I do not know.

 

[JReducation]

Along with what has already been clearly stated, that the government does not have the right to command anyone to pay for a product that it considers immoral, there is another issue that is equally important.

Ask anyone who lived in Eastern Europe, Cuba, and the Nazi occupied territories. When the state is allowed to overstep its constitutional boundaries, even on an issue that may not directly affect you, because you’re not a believer or whatever the case may be, there should always be the concern in the back of everyone’s mind, “How far will the government go? Where do we draw the line? Can it go so far that we are powerless to stop the government?”

This is the experience of the people of Germany, Russia and Cuba. Nothing happened overnight. It was one step at a time. Often, those violations affected a small sector of the population, so that the majority looked the other way and just sung louder.

This is not an expression. This actually happened in Germany. While train loads of Jews were being carried away with people wailing in the cars, the German people who lived along the tracks would gather to sing loudly while facing away from the train. The hoped to drown out the wailing. Eventually, these same people found their rights being curtailed one by one.

The question for any citizen is whether or not to allow a department of the US Government to violate the constitution without a challenge. In the end, today the issue may be contraceptives. Tomorrow it’s gun control. We know how the NRA feels about that. The next day it can be a redefinition of freedom of the press and so forth.

When you don’t draw the line in the sand early enough, you may find that you have given away so much control that you have nowhere to draw that line.

So far, all that the Executive Branch talks about is a woman’s right to comprehensive healthcare. The problem with that language is that pregnancy is not a disease and that it does not answer the challenge that this regulation is unconstitutional.

The issue for Catholics, Orthodox Christians, Orthodox Jews, Muslims and non believers is the same. Does the Executive Branch have the authority to interpret the constitution and the power to apply its interpretation without the consent of the people, regardless of the subject?

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF

 

[Bubba_Switzler]

In the end, today the issue may be contraceptives. Tomorrow it’s gun control. We know how the NRA feels about that.

Ok, so we know that the NRA has some considerable political muscle (dueling with the AARP for the top slot), in spite of having far fewer members than the Catholic Church. So where is the Catholic equivalent to the NRA? Why is Obama more afraid of crossing the NRA than the Catholic Church? We know it’s not because Obama has any respect for the Second Amendment.

 

[JReducation]

Ok, so we know that the NRA has some considerable political muscle (dueling with the AARP for the top slot), in spite of having far fewer members than the Catholic Church. So where is the Catholic equivalent to the NRA? Why is Obama more afraid of crossing the NRA than the Catholic Church? We know it’s not because Obama has any respect for the Second Amendment.

I believe that your point is well made.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF

 

[PTL]

I think it is silly to destroy a President on one issue.

One issue? This president did numerous terrible things. Where were you?
After he became president, the unemployment rate went crazy, so is the gas price.
When Obama took the office, the gas was 1.98 per gallon. Look at it now. And Obama said with his own words, “I don’t care if the gas is 5.00 per gallon.”
Obama apologized to all the world, all the countries, downgrade our country’s image,he bowed down 90 degree to other country’s leaders, makes United States looks weak.
He makes the national debt triple than three years ago, he spent like crazy.
He made US credit drop shamefully.
He forces many company to move out of US and operate in other countries, he destroys US economy, he makes people suffer.
He is the number one president on abortion.
His Obamacare contains numerous horrible laws, kill babies, kill aged people, ruin conscience protection, put many new regulations on business and individuals, just name a few.
He does not care about securing our boarders.
He wants to destroy religious freedom.
He started and promoted class war, he arouses class hatred.
He wants to destroy capitalism.
He wants us to become a communist country.
…

One issue? Please!

 

[Bubba_Switzler]

I believe that your point is well made.

I didn’t mean to make a point with a rhetorical question but I guess you answered my question by treating it as a rhetorical point.

Is there any existing organization that could conceivably become the Catholic NRA if we all got behind it?

 

[LisaA]

Thank you so much for your reasoned reply. No I am not Catholic, but am married to one. I mean he married me – in a non-catholic setting. I love him and do my best to understand his faith. But at times I do question things, that is why I am here to see if I am a complete a…hole, or just a learner.

I am not American, **but Canadian, **so we see US news 24 / 7 along with our own news,so it seems like we are the same, but cousins. Loving but different cousins. OKay that has been cleared up.

Truth has to be tested and questioned. Like steel it has to be tempered. That is what I have learned in my life search for the truth.

God exist that I have come to know, how to interact with him or Christ that I do not know.

AHA! Now I see why you don’t understand the issue. Our Constitution protects our religious freedom. It is one of the FOUNDING and MOST IMPORTANT concepts of the United States of America. I do not know if you have such a protection in Canada (having heard about your hate speech trials I suspect it’s not nearly as strong) but we do.

The issue is not whether birth control, abortifacients or sterilization is evil, the issue is whether the government can demand we purchase a product that is against our religious faith. IOW can they demand we submit to their authority over our that of our Constitution. This is what we ESCAPED when leaving England and religious freedom has been a part of our identity even before the United States existed as a formal structure.

Although the Bishops have been most vocal about this violation of our rights, the reality is that even minimally observant Catholics and the secularists recognize we are heading down a slippery slope. It is yet another over-reach by Obama who defied a court order to reopen drilling, ignores subpoenas for documentation and continually pushes for more control from the Executive Branch. We need to defeat his anti-life, pro power agenda before we lose our country.

Lisa

 

[hudson]

Ok, so we know that the NRA has some considerable political muscle (dueling with the AARP for the top slot), in spite of having far fewer members than the Catholic Church. So where is the Catholic equivalent to the NRA? Why is Obama more afraid of crossing the NRA than the Catholic Church? We know it’s not because Obama has any respect for the Second Amendment.

Faithful Catholics. The problem(imo) is there has been a lack of leadership in my lifetime. I hope this is the beginning of our Church once again showing its leadership and power. I believe there are more Catholics than you realize that have waited patiently for this day to arrive.

 

[Bubba_Switzler]

Faithful Catholics. The problem(imo) is there has been a lack of leadership in my lifetime. I hope this is the beginning of our Church once again showing its leadership and power. I believe there are more Catholics than you realize that have waited patiently for this day to arrive.

So where are you expecting this leadership to come from?

I agree, not only are there Catholics who have been waiting but there are I think many who are now awakening to a new reality.

As noted above, there are many organizations, and of course the Catholic clerical hierarchy itself, but nothing that would put the fear of God (pun intended) into Obama and his cronies.

They seem quite confident that they can peel away enough Catholics to secure reelection while giving Planned Parenthood authority over health policy.

There is absolutely no point in passing any mandate legislation as long as Obama remains in office. Why would he ever sign a law undoing what he did by administrative fiat?

 

[JReducation]

I’m wondering if we’re going about this the wrong way. We have turned it into Catholics vs Obama. But let’s take a close look.

First, it can be any president, George Washington himself. It is a president who is interpreting the Constitution and applying his interpretation. Does the Executive Branch of government have the right to do that?

Second, the President came out with a “solution”. Religious institutions do not have to pay for this coverage. Insurance companies must provide it free of charge, no co-insurance, no copay. Does the Executive Branch have the authority to dictate to private businesses that they must give away their products and services? We know that’s not going to happen. Insurance companies will find a way of recovering their money.

Third, the President’s “solution” was to liberate religious institutions from paying for this coverage. What about the individual citizen, does he not have a right to freedom of religion and the right to a conscience? If one of these folks who owns a business with 25 employees feels that he cannot, in conscience provide this kind of coverage, does he not have religious freedom? If he doesn’t have this right, how is it that certain individuals are not obliged to served in the Armed Forces when there is a draft under conscientious objection?

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF

 

[hudson]

So where are you expecting this leadership to come from?

I agree, not only are there Catholics who have been waiting but there are I think many who are now awakening to a new reality.

As noted above, there are many organizations, and of course the Catholic clerical hierarchy itself, but nothing that would put the fear of God (pun intended) into Obama and his cronies.

They seem quite confident that they can peel away enough Catholics to secure reelection while giving Planned Parenthood authority over health policy.

There is absolutely no point in passing any mandate legislation as long as Obama remains in office. Why would he ever sign a law undoing what he did by administrative fiat?

The Bishops and Priest must be our leaders.

 

[Bubba_Switzler]

The Bishops and Priest must be our leaders.

On Church, matters, of course. I think we will be hearing more from them as they stare into the gun barrel of federal health care police.

But I’m not so sure that they are the obvious leaders for political arm twisting.

 

[Bubba_Switzler]

I’m wondering if we’re going about this the wrong way. We have turned it into Catholics vs Obama. But let’s take a close look. First, it can be any president, George Washington himself…

I think you are exactly right. And, to continue the NRA analogy, we need an organization that is not beholden to any political party, that takes a long view and builds long term alliances.

Obamacare just happens to be the issue that pushed the bishops into a corner.

It is a president who is interpreting the Constitution and applying his interpretation. Does the Executive Branch of government have the right to do that?

Second, the President came out with a “solution”. Religious institutions do not have to pay for this coverage. Insurance companies must provide it free of charge, no co-insurance, no copay. Does the Executive Branch have the authority to dictate to private businesses that they must give away their products and services? We know that’s not going to happen. Insurance companies will find a way of recovering their money.

Third, the President’s “solution” was to liberate religious institutions from paying for this coverage. What about the individual citizen, does he not have a right to freedom of religion and the right to a conscience? If one of these folks who owns a business with 25 employees feels that he cannot, in conscience provide this kind of coverage, does he not have religious freedom? If he doesn’t have this right, how is it that certain individuals are not obliged to served in the Armed Forces when there is a draft under conscientious objection?

Well, you know I’ve raised that question before. I frankly don’t know how anyone can think that Obamacare is fixable. I’d like to see the bishops join the legal effort to overturn it and the political effort to repeal it. This mandate is only the beginning of mischief that he law will cause.

 

[JReducation]

On Church, matters, of course. I think we will be hearing more from them as they stare into the gun barrel of federal health care police.

But I’m not so sure that they are the obvious leaders for political arm twisting.

Political arm twisting is not the appropriate role for clergy or consecrated religious (brothers, sisters and nuns). Our role is to point to what is moral and immoral. If you will, to make the laity take notice. The mechanics of how to overcome the immoral falls on the laity. It is the proper place of the layman to figure out how to apply the moral law in the secular field.

The layman must remember that he takes his moral cue from the clergy and religious. He does not make up the moral rules as he goes along. In other words, he must act according to the mind of the Church and he must push for that which is consistent with the Law of God. The Church will tell him what the law is.

The clergy and religious can certainly stand side by side with the layman. After all, the clergy and religious are citizens too. They have the right to protest when something is wrong.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF

 

[Bubba_Switzler]

Political arm twisting is not the appropriate role for clergy or consecrated religious (brothers, sisters and nuns). Our role is to point to what is moral and immoral. If you will, to make the laity take notice. The mechanics of how to overcome the immoral falls on the laity. It is the proper place of the layman to figure out how to apply the moral law in the secular field.

The layman must remember that he takes his moral cue from the clergy and religious. He does not make up the moral rules as he goes along. In other words, he must act according to the mind of the Church and he must push for that which is consistent with the Law of God. The Church will tell him what the law is.

The clergy and religious can certainly stand side by side with the layman. After all, the clergy and religious are citizens too. They have the right to protest when something is wrong.

No American Cardinal Richelieu, then?

How about the Knights of Columbus? They have swords.

Seriously, though, it really sounds like you are saying it is up to the laity to lead this fight and up to the clergy to keep them on the right path with moral guidance.