Catholic Bishops Support Employment Discrimination against Gays

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Personally, I fully agree with the letter from the USCCB. Oh yeah, and gender is already a federally protected class. An employer cannot discriminate against a person based upon their gender unless the organization happens to be a religious organization such as the Catholic Church. I think what you are trying to say is that transsexuals should also be a protected class. I strongly disagree with this. Transsexuals do not deserve or need to be in any kind of protected class. They were born one gender but yet they choose to act as, dress as, and sometimes even be surgically altered to resemble, the opposite gender. This is not right. The reason why they should not be a protected class is simply this: An employer may fire or refuse to hire a person based upon their dress and/or behavior. Well, transsexuals are not a third gender. No, they are simply deviants who choose to dress or act like the opposite engender. Therefore, anyone who discriminates against a transsexual is discriminating against them based on their backward and morally corrupt dressing manner and behavior and that is perfectly just!
Thats no different from discriminating against moslems for being terrorists. Sex is federally protected, gemder isn’t. Transsexuaism is not deviant or has anything to do with morals. It’s actually an official diagnosis. Since you are ignorant and not an expert on things like this you have really no business telling anyone what their rights are or not on this issue. Gender is in the brain, sex is between the legs, study up and get with the program!
 
Being forced to publically accept homosexuality as being equal to hetrosexaulity in this manner runs aboslutly contrary to authentic Christian teaching.
What does that have to do with being hired to ro fired from a job?
 
I think what you are trying to say is that transsexuals should also be a protected class. I strongly disagree with this. Transsexuals do not deserve or need to be in any kind of protected class. They were born one gender but yet they choose to act as, dress as, and sometimes even be surgically altered to resemble, the opposite gender.
From Sexual Hormones and the Brain: An Essential Alliance for Sexual Identity and Sexual Orientation Garcia-Falgueras A, Swaab DF Endocr Dev. 2010;17:22-35
The fetal brain develops during the intrauterine period in the male direction through a direct action of testosterone on the developing nerve cells, or in the female direction through the absence of this hormone surge. In this way, our gender identity (the conviction of belonging to the male or female gender) and sexual orientation are programmed or organized into our brain structures when we are still in the womb. However, since sexual differentiation of the genitals takes place in the first two months of pregnancy and sexual differentiation of the brain starts in the second half of pregnancy, these two processes can be influenced independently, which may result in extreme cases in trans-sexuality. This also means that in the event of ambiguous sex at birth, the degree of masculinization of the genitals may not reflect the degree of masculinization of the brain. There is no indication that social environment after birth has an effect on gender identity or sexual orientation.
So much for them being “born one gender” but choosing to act like the opposite one. They were born with the affliction of looking like the opposite sex at birth - and you wish to continue to have the right to persecute them for that should they try to remedy it. I understand.

They have a 40% unemployment rate. 60% are below the poverty line. 50% attempt suicide before age 20. And you say that that’s what they deserve. Or did you not know this?

Thank you for making your views clear. It is the existence of those like you who are the best possible argument against the Catholic Bishop’s litany of excuses for why they (regretfully, I’m sure, crying copious crocodile tears) are now actively supporting persecution too.

I don’t blame you. Your first error was one of omission, failing to investigate an area you have little knowledge of. Something we’re all guilty of at times. Less forgivable, you then out of ignorance condemn others unjustly. Less forgivable still, you condone their persecution, without bothering to make absolutely certain of the justice of your case. I’m certain though that if you did investigate thoroughly, you’d change your opinions. You’re trying to do what you see is morally correct.

The Catholic Bishops have no such excuses. They’ve been made aware of the subject. They just choose to ignore the facts as being inconvenient.

[BIBLEDRB]Matthew 23:25-28[/BIBLEDRB]

By the way… I am for most intents and purposes, Transsexual. I was born looking male, even though at age 8, I knew I wasn’t a boy. Classic Transsexuality, almost all know before age 10, and often as early as 3. Male brain with otherwise female body, or as with me, the reverse.

One thing though - I had a rare Intersex condition. It turns out that I was biologically female, and my body normalised later in life, without medical intervention. It’s far more complex for a minority of people than you realise. But because of our congenital medical situation, the ignorant say we are “deviants”, “backwards and morally corrupt”. Just as they used to about infants born with cleft palates, “marks of the devil”.

And they persecute us because of that, and oppose legislation that would, in a small way, slightly reduce that persecution. It would still be quite legal, should this legislation pass, to deny us medical care, or to enter a cinema or restaurant, or even to use a public sidewalk or drinking fountain. In 38 states anyway, those without more inclusive, statewide legislation.

The Bishops have no problem with that.
 
Let’s try this another way: if the Archdiocese of Portland were to set up a safe house for women who have been physically, emotionally and/or sexually abused in a marriage, would you consider it discrimination if the Archdiocese refused to hire a convicted rapist as the night watchman?
You mean, instead of transferring him to another diocese, as they have done in the past?

The law would only protect people from being fired for being Gay, or Straight, or Bi. It would also protect those who are not Intersexed from being fired for that. It would no more protect a homosexual rapist because he was homosexual, than it currently protects pedophilic priests just because they’re Catholic. Or do you think it should?
 
The law makes no mention of “sexual conduct”, only “sexual orientation”. It does not protect, for example, pedophile priests or pastors, of whatever denomination, from being charged with rape, if that’s what the Bishops are worried about. Illegal sexual conduct is still not permitted.
This is just a guess, but I think the concern of the bishops is that the law would force Catholic organizations to recognize any same-sex marriages of their employees, requiring the organizations to pay benefits to homosexual couples equal to that of heterosexual couples. This fits with the Archdiocese of Washington’s protracted dispute with the DC city government regarding such rights.
ncregister.com/register_exclusives/archdiocese_of_washington_forced_to_end_spousal_benefits/

Perhaps what the bishops want is an exemption in the law so that religious organizations don’t have to recognize possible same-sex marriages involving their employees.
 
This is just a guess, but I think the concern of the bishops is that the law would force Catholic organizations to recognize any same-sex marriages of their employees, requiring the organizations to pay benefits to homosexual couples equal to that of heterosexual couples.
The law specifically exempts Religious organisations. While DOMA is in force, no recognition for federal purposes of same-sex marriages is possible, and this would be a federal law…

Remember what the Pope said about Intersexed people:
To carry our reflection further, we must remember that the problem of the environment is complex; one might compare it to a multifaceted prism. Creatures differ from one another and can be protected, or endangered, in different ways, as we know from daily experience. One such attack comes from laws or proposals which, in the name of fighting discrimination, strike at the biological basis of the difference between the sexes. I am thinking, for example, of certain countries in Europe or North and South America.
He didn’t say we’re Vermin in so many words - just an ecological threat to all humankind. A rose by any other name. And that laws and proposals to fight discrimination against us are an attack on the human ecology.

Remember this thread - forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=448680

It was argued that in fact, the Church - and in particular, the American Bishops - had made no statements against human rights for Trans and Intersexed people. That it was all Individuals - even Bishops - acting independently.

Now that the USCCB have written this letter - can we at least lay that canard to rest?

Discrimination against Gays was recognised as unjust, if regrettably necessary. But not discrimination against us. They were fine with that.
The bill’s treatment of “gender identity,” which was not in the 2007 bill, would have an adverse effect on privacy and associational rights of others.
SIGH

They’ll lose in the end, you know. And this will be held against them, as yet another moral failure of Catholicism. Pity, you all try so hard to do the right thing. And I predict that the ones to make the most of pointing out your moral and ethical failings are those who have most moral failings themselves. It’s always thus.

History will judge the USCCB harshly. I won’t. Too conscious of my own errors, I guess. I’ll just fight them until we win. Just as they will fight till they lose. Because we both see what we’re doing is right. How can I not love my enemy under those circumstances? How can I not hate the sin, yet love the sinner?

I’m no Christian, but there is so much in His teachings to admire and emulate.
 
The law specifically exempts Religious organisations.
I agree, and the bishops recognize the religious exemption in the bill. However, they claim, without elaborating, that it is not comprehensive enough and that some Catholic Church affiliated organizations would still be forced to act against their religious principles. I can’t evaluate that argument. They simply state it.
While DOMA is in force, no recognition for federal purposes of same-sex marriages is possible, and this would be a federal law.
That is an interesting argument, and I think has merit. However, I am not sure why the Archdiocese of Washington decided they needed to drop marriage benefits for new all employees if DOMA were truly protective.

And, of course, many of the people supporting ENDA would also like to overturn DOMA as well during the next few years.
Remember what the Pope said about Intersexed people:
Pope Benedict:
To carry our reflection further, we must remember that the problem of the environment is complex; one might compare it to a multifaceted prism. Creatures differ from one another and can be protected, or endangered, in different ways, as we know from daily experience. One such attack comes from laws or proposals which, in the name of fighting discrimination, strike at the biological basis of the difference between the sexes. I am thinking, for example, of certain countries in Europe or North and South America.

link
He didn’t say we’re Vermin in so many words - just an ecological threat to all humankind. A rose by any other name. And that laws and proposals to fight discrimination against us are an attack on the human ecology.
You and I discussed this, at some length, in another thread. I disagree with your interpretation that he was discussing intersex people. I doubt he ever thinks about the topic, unless someone broaches it with him (which doesn’t seem likely to me.) I believe that he was referring to Church’s Natural Law ideas about the immutable nature of male and female. In this thinking intersex does not exist, and the cultural acceptance of transgender ideas is scary, possibly threatening society in the same way that same-sex marriage is seen as threatening society.
Remember this thread - forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=448680

It was argued that in fact, the Church - and in particular, the American Bishops - had made no statements against human rights for Trans and Intersexed people. That it was all Individuals - even Bishops - acting independently.
Oh, I do remember that thread. Thank your posting the link (so I don’t have to look it up), just in case anyone is ascetic enough to want to read it. :o

Yes, I don’t think any of the bishops have issued a statement on civil rights or even human rights of trans and intersex people. But I think that is because the topic is not on their radar, not because they are opposed to the idea.
Now that the USCCB have written this letter - can we at least lay that canard to rest?
Zoe, I still disagree with your interpretation. I think the letter we are discussing was not well-founded, and I am sorry that it simply came out against ENDA rather than explaining their concerns in detail and suggesting how ENDA could be modified to resolve their concerns.
They’ll lose in the end, you know. And this will be held against them, as yet another moral failure of Catholicism.
Yes, I think ENDA will eventually pass. But I am not sure anyone who supports the Catholic Church will hold this unfortunate letter against them. Still, the letter throws the baby out with the bathwater, and that is distressing.
 
However, I am not sure why the Archdiocese of Washington decided they needed to drop marriage benefits for new all employees if DOMA were truly protective.
Because it was DC law, not Federal Law. DOMA can no more prevent DC from recognising same-sex marriages in its legislation than it can prevent Mass. from doing the same. All it can do is say that it won’t recognise either for the purposes of Federal law. And ENDA is a federal law.

Technically, I think DOMA is unconstitutional that way, BTW. If a marriage is recognised by one of the United States, that marriage has to be recognised federally - but not by other states, in that area DOMA is not unconstitutional, just redundant. That’s a question for lawyers though, and not ethics or morality. Certainly not justice, social or otherwise!

Oh, and the Archdiocese of Washington didn’t have to provide benefits to gays. All they had to do is not accept money from the DC government, and they could do as they like.

They decided to take the government money - and cut off benefits, so all were treated equally badly, to be technically in compliance. Then complain about being “forced” to do it.

It’s difficult not to be cynical sometimes.
 
Because it was DC law, not Federal Law. DOMA can no more prevent DC from recognising same-sex marriages in its legislation than it can prevent Mass. from doing the same. All it can do is say that it won’t recognise either for the purposes of Federal law. And ENDA is a federal law.

Technically, I think DOMA is unconstitutional that way, BTW. If a marriage is recognised by one of the United States, that marriage has to be recognised federally - but not by other states, in that area DOMA is not unconstitutional, just redundant. That’s a question for lawyers though, and not ethics or morality. Certainly not justice, social or otherwise!

Oh, and the Archdiocese of Washington didn’t have to provide benefits to gays. All they had to do is not accept money from the DC government, and they could do as they like.

They decided to take the government money - and cut off benefits, so all were treated equally badly, to be technically in compliance. Then complain about being “forced” to do it.

It’s difficult not to be cynical sometimes.
Maybe you missed my question earlier, ZB. Did you read the entire piece of legislation?
 
Maybe you missed my question earlier, ZB. Did you read the entire piece of legislation?
No. Neither has anyone else, as the changes that will be put in during mark-up haven’t been finalised. On the other hand, I’ve been keenly tracking every word of the legislation as it’s made its way through the political sausage-machine.

It’s at govtrack.us/congress/billtext.xpd?bill=h111-3017

The areas that we have been reliably informed that are under discussion for change during the mark-up are:
  1. Deletion of “or gender identity” throughout, deleting paras 8.(a).3 and 8.(a).4 and the last part of 8.(a).5 referring to transition (everything after “or local law”)
  2. Alternately, adding restrooms and possibly all other places with no nudity to the provisions of 8.(a).3Openly Gay congresscritter Barney Frank is insisting on one or the other, as he has a morbid fear of Homosexuals being confused with “Intersexed Freaks” with anomalous genitalia, so wishes them to be strictly segregated (unlike the situation today). Normal people - gays, lesbians, and heterosexuals in one area, the freaks - Trans and Intersexed people - in a separate part of the workplace. Separate but Equal of course.
The bill has been stuck in committee since August last year over this issue, and won’t be considered before late July. Barney Frank was able to introduce an amended bill in 2007 that excluded “gender identity”, and it was this bill that was passed by the House, but lapsed before a Senate vote, as this one will.

Some of the sections the Bishops are concerned about:
SEC. 6. EXEMPTION FOR RELIGIOUS ORGANIZATIONS.
This Act shall not apply to a corporation, association, educational institution, or society that is exempt from the religious discrimination provisions of title VII of the Civil Rights Acts of 1964 pursuant to section 702(a) or 703(e)(2) of such Act (42 U.S.C. 2000e-1(a); 2000e-2(e)(2)).
SECTION 8 CONSTRUCTION
(b) Employee Benefits- Nothing in this Act shall be construed to require a covered entity to treat an unmarried couple in the same manner as the covered entity treats a married couple for purposes of employee benefits.
(c) Definition of Marriage- As used in this Act, the term ‘married’ refers to marriage as such term is defined in section 7 of title I, United States Code (referred to as the Defense of Marriage Act).
 
The law would only protect people from being fired for being Gay, or Straight, or Bi. It would also protect those who are not Intersexed from being fired for that. It would no more protect a homosexual rapist because he was homosexual, than it currently protects pedophilic priests just because they’re Catholic. Or do you think it should?
Well would a law like that just give the pedophile priest more protection? Right now there are many of the clergy being prosecuted for their actions some were granted given mercy because of the age of them at the time of their exposure. You fail to realize that many of the recent cases happened 20, 30, 40, even 50 years ago though none of that made it into the headlines, seems convenient that people waited until after the previous wave to bring their cases to light. Is any of this right, hell no, but consider the percentages of Catholic priest deviants to other denominations though they never make the headlines. The US Department of Education does a study based on percentage that states that children are 100 times more likely to be sexually abused in their public school than by a Catholic priest.

Sorry if I went off topic a bit but this whole waving the banner of pedophilia Catholic priests bothers me when it is an issue across the world not just the Church.
 
Well would a law like that just give the pedophile priest more protection?
Go ask otjm - he was the one that brought up the Archdiocese of Portland employing convicted rapists, not me. I don’t see what this employment discrimination bill has to do with priestly shannigans, now or in the past.
 
No. Neither has anyone else, as the changes that will be put in during mark-up haven’t been finalised. On the other hand, I’ve been keenly tracking every word of the legislation as it’s made its way through the political sausage-machine.

It’s at govtrack.us/congress/billtext.xpd?bill=h111-3017

The areas that we have been reliably informed that are under discussion for change during the mark-up are:
  1. Deletion of “or gender identity” throughout, deleting paras 8.(a).3 and 8.(a).4 and the last part of 8.(a).5 referring to transition (everything after “or local law”)
  2. Alternately, adding restrooms and possibly all other places with no nudity to the provisions of 8.(a).3Openly Gay congresscritter Barney Frank is insisting on one or the other, as he has a morbid fear of Homosexuals being confused with “Intersexed Freaks” with anomalous genitalia, so wishes them to be strictly segregated (unlike the situation today). Normal people - gays, lesbians, and heterosexuals in one area, the freaks - Trans and Intersexed people - in a separate part of the workplace. Separate but Equal of course.
The bill has been stuck in committee since August last year over this issue, and won’t be considered before late July. Barney Frank was able to introduce an amended bill in 2007 that excluded “gender identity”, and it was this bill that was passed by the House, but lapsed before a Senate vote, as this one will.

Some of the sections the Bishops are concerned about:
**Some of the sections the Bishops are concerned about:

Quote:
SEC. 6. EXEMPTION FOR RELIGIOUS ORGANIZATIONS.

This Act shall not apply to a corporation, association, educational institution, or society that is exempt from the religious discrimination provisions of title VII of the Civil Rights Acts of 1964 pursuant to section 702(a) or 703(e)(2) of such Act (42 U.S.C. 2000e-1(a); 2000e-2(e)(2)).

SECTION 8 CONSTRUCTION
(b) Employee Benefits- Nothing in this Act shall be construed to require a covered entity to treat an unmarried couple in the same manner as the covered entity treats a married couple for purposes of employee benefits.

(c) Definition of Marriage- As used in this Act, the term ‘married’ refers to marriage as such term is defined in section 7 of title I, United States Code (referred to as the Defense of Marriage Act). **

So where in these sections that the Bishops are concerned about do you see unfair discrimination?
 
Some of the sections the Bishops are concerned about:

Quote:
SEC. 6. EXEMPTION FOR RELIGIOUS ORGANIZATIONS.

This Act shall not apply to a corporation, association, educational institution, or society that is exempt from the religious discrimination provisions of title VII of the Civil Rights Acts of 1964 pursuant to section 702(a) or 703(e)(2) of such Act (42 U.S.C. 2000e-1(a); 2000e-2(e)(2)).

SECTION 8 CONSTRUCTION
(b) Employee Benefits- Nothing in this Act shall be construed to require a covered entity to treat an unmarried couple in the same manner as the covered entity treats a married couple for purposes of employee benefits.


**(c) Definition of Marriage- As used in this Act, the term ‘married’ refers to marriage as such term is defined in section 7 of title I, United States Code (referred to as the Defense of Marriage Act). **

So where in these sections that the Bishops are concerned about do you see unfair discrimination?
The chances that a perfect bill will ever be put fourth is justabout nil. The main thing is that sexual orientation and gender identity expression are going to be protected if this passes Thats the brass tacks and what is important and all the periphreal stuff really doesn’t matter. The sections brought up are brought up as a stall tactic. Lets just pass the bill as it is and move on!
 
**Some of the sections the Bishops are concerned about:

Quote:
SEC. 6. EXEMPTION FOR RELIGIOUS ORGANIZATIONS.

This Act shall not apply to a corporation, association, educational institution, or society that is exempt from the religious discrimination provisions of title VII of the Civil Rights Acts of 1964 pursuant to section 702(a) or 703(e)(2) of such Act (42 U.S.C. 2000e-1(a); 2000e-2(e)(2)).

SECTION 8 CONSTRUCTION
(b) Employee Benefits- Nothing in this Act shall be construed to require a covered entity to treat an unmarried couple in the same manner as the covered entity treats a married couple for purposes of employee benefits.

(c) Definition of Marriage- As used in this Act, the term ‘married’ refers to marriage as such term is defined in section 7 of title I, United States Code (referred to as the Defense of Marriage Act). **

So where in these sections that the Bishops are concerned about do you see unfair discrimination?
erm…Newbie2, I don’t see any unfair discrimination in those provisions, and I doubt Zoe does either. It is the bishops who signed the letter who object to those provisions, as you mentioned at the beginning of your comment.

Are taking the side expressed in the letter? If so, could you explain where the unfair discrimination will occur?
 
erm…Newbie2, I don’t see any unfair discrimination in those provisions, and I doubt Zoe does either. It is the bishops who signed the letter who object to those provisions, as you mentioned at the beginning of your comment.

Are taking the side expressed in the letter? If so, could you explain where the unfair discrimination will occur?
I’m not taking any sides at this point but want to know what provisions the Bishops object to and why, and see if Zoe Brain can explain why such objections would constitute unfair discrimination.
 
I’m not taking any sides at this point but want to know what provisions the Bishops object to and why, and see if Zoe Brain can explain why such objections would constitute unfair discrimination.
The letter they sent says it all. They don’t elaborate other than to assert that there’s a problem, without saying exactly what.

It’s about US law. The way the 14th amendment has been interpreted by the US, there are 3 different levels of scrutiny when asserting that there has been discrimination. “Rational Basis”, “Intermediate”, and “Strict”.

Those who are not a member of a “Protected Class” as enumerated in Title VII of the Civil Rights Act are subject to “Rational Basis” scrutiny. Thus, for example, someone who alleges discrimination based on the fact that they have freckles would have to prove that there is no Rational Basis for the discrimination. The employer just has to assert, without proof, that there is a Rational Basis, such as one of their customers not liking peiople with freckles, so they may possibly lose business. Such discrimination is not deemed systematic, but individual, and the bar is set very low. The victim would have to prove that no such customer exists.

Once recognised as a “protected class” though, one where there is a proven situation of that whole group facing systematic discrimination, then you have “strict scrutiny”, where the employer has to prove that he’s not discriminating as part of that system.

Furthermore, should a group be proven in law to be the victim of systematic discrimination in one area, the same standard of proof is required in other areas. Thus a “protected class” status for the purposes of, say, Hate Crimes laws, could be leveraged to argue for employment, and marriage, and other issues.

The problem that the Church faces is twofold: first, that they can’t possibly prove that such employment discrimination doesn’t happen, and happen a lot. The newspapers are full of such cases, for example
The results are in from the Virginia Supreme Court in the Moore v. Virginia Museum of Natural History case. Ducking any discussion of the issues, the Court issued a few sentence letter indicating that Michael Moore’s appeal was rejected and that the Court found “no reversible error” in the lower court ruling. For those unfamiliar with the case, the lower court had ruled that Gov. Tim Kaine’s Executive Order 1 (2006) was basically worthless and provided Moore - who was fired by the Museum because he is gay - with no cause of action for his wrongful firing.
As for Intersexed people:
In 1987, Wilma Wood was fired. She brought suit against her employer, claiming that she had been fired after the employer learned that she was intersexed and had undergone genital surgery. The U.S. District Court in Pennsylvania found that the Pennsylvania Human Relations Act protects women because of their status as females and discrimination against males because of their status as males, but employers are not legally prohibited from terminating employees on the basis of intersex status. The Court cited caselaw arising under Title VII as “persuasive authority.”
Surveys have shown that 97% of Intersexed and Trans people have faced discrimination of some kind in employment. 40% have been fired at least once. This usually happens in jurisdictions with no legal protections, so they can’t get to court - or if they do, they lose, having no case. In places where there are such protections, there’s little provable discrimination, so few court cases again.

So - GLBT people are being discriminated against. By Church teaching, which says only Homosexual acts rather than inclinations are sinful, this means that this discrimination is unjust.

But if they were to allow it to be stopped, this could be , and would be, used as an argument that Gays are being discriminated against systematically. Which they are of course. Currently the legal fiction is that it’s a long series of complete coincidences, there is no religiously-based discrimination, and that GLBT people must prove otherwise to be protected.

Therefore the Church must assert that a law against discrimination which protects on the basis of “sexual orientation” - not “sexual behaviour” - actually means “sexual behaviour”.

Furthermore, they must assert - without proof, as there isn’t any - that the Title VII religious exemptions they’ve lived with since 1964 without a problem have suddenly become inadequate. That while they can live with those excemptions when it comes to adherents of the Church of Satan and other overt Devil-worshippers, Gays are so much worse than those that they would be inadequate.

So they must fight against legal protections against persecution they recognise openly as unjust, because if they didn’t, then the situation of unjust persecution would be recognised legally, and used to end other persecutions they consider only right and proper.

As for Intersexed and Trans people - it appears from this letter that the Church’s position is that persecution of them is not unjust, and may even be praiseworthy, with no need to justify that.

Now I could be mischaracterising their views, misinterpreting them. But if anyone has any alternate interpretation, I’d appreciate they give it here. We’ve had several people chime in, asserting that this is a good letter, without elaborating as to the law. Perhaps they’d care to comment as to why it’s reasonable that Intersexed people be fired for being who they are, and how this in accordance with Church Doctrine. It’s certainly the Pope’s view, for example.
 
Personally I think they’ve shot themselves in the foot, and with a machine gun.

This letter will be used in courts as evidence that
a) Unjust persecution happens, they admit that.
b) That the persecution is based on religious belief
c) That they oppose laws that would recognise the unjust persecution that everyone knows happens, purely on the basis that they’re against same-sex marriage on religious grounds.

This letter is almost as good as having the legislation in place when it comes to same-sex marriage, as they’ve admitted officially what they’re doing.

In a much more important way, they’ve shot themselves in the foot too. Far worse. This is the first time in history that the Catholic Bishops have officially come out against law diminishing discrimination against any minority. I’m not talking about the provisions about Gays. I’m taliking about the bits concerning the Intersexed and Transsexed.
The bill’s treatment of “gender identity,” which was not in the 2007 bill, would have an adverse effect on privacy and associational rights of others.
No more so than any other such legislation, such as those preventing segregated drinking fountains for blacks. That they have now bought in to this argument means, IMHO, that they have not only lost their way, but are going against over 200 years of Catholics campaigning for social justice in the USA. This isn’t a problem with details of implementation, of flaws in laws that are in principle praiseworthy. They’re against civil rights in principle for these people.
I still have not seen a case where a Catholic organization, much less the church advocated denying people rights. Please provide a reference
There is a difference between advocating denying people rights, and not just advocating, but taking action to ensure that laws that would stop others from denying those rights are never passed. One is just words, the other an active deed in support of that end.
 
Seems to me that you’re saying that in not supporting this particular piece of legislation, the Church is supporting discrimination. Yet, we really don’t know what specifically or if it’s just in general, what the Bishops disagree with in this legislation.

Seems also to me that’s what happens in political rhetoric. Senator A doesn’t like a particular provision in Bill X. Bill X in general supports “rights” for gays, for example. Senator A doesn’t vote for Bill X, so then Senator A gets painted as anti-Gay. Yet nobody specifically asks Senator A why he didn’t vote for Bill X, they just jump on the “Senator A is anti-Gay” bandwagon.
 
Seems to me that you’re saying that in not supporting this particular piece of legislation, the Church is supporting discrimination.
It’s not that they don’t support it: that was the official policy until recently, to say nothing, as they did in 2007 over the gay-only bill. Now they actively oppose it.

And for reasons that are at the least confusing, and apparently specious.

Given the Pope’s condemnation of legislation in the US and Europe that would grant human rights to the Intersexed and Transsexed, they really had no other choice.
 
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