O
Ortho
Guest
OK. So all the teachings of the Magesterium are now considered revealed by Jesus? Papal encyclicals, too? The Church says revelation is happening today?
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Hildebrand
Guest
The Church’s teaching against Artificial Birth Control has been the same since the early Church. The popes affirm what was already infallible teaching.
Did Pope John Paul II ever infallibly proclaim Jesus as Lord and Savior? (Ex cathedra) Answer to the question: Not that I know of, JPII taught what Christians have known for centuries.
Early Church teaching on Artificial Birth Control:
northshorecatholic.org/RCIA/birth_control.htm
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Ortho
Guest
Interesting. The technology at the time of the early Church fathers was the same as at the time of Jesus. Jesus didn’t say anything about birth control. Perhaps he didn’t think it was important?
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Genesis315
Guest
He did. He sanctified marriage and became a Bridegroom to the Church as the model of married life. He gave Himself up totally so that new life would spring forth. He didn’t hold back Himself nor did He stifle life
. He didn’t neuter Himself or the Church–He let life flow through both.
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Ortho
Guest
Can you cite his words about BC?He did. He sanctified marriage and became a Bridegroom to the Church as the model of married life. He gave Himself up totally so that new life would spring forth. He didn’t hold back Himself or life
Bridegroom to the Church? I presume that is some kind of metaphor. Otherwise it would be an example of a marriage that was not between one man and one woman.
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Hildebrand
Guest
The early Church quotes in the link provided were from 74 AD to 522 AD. Yes, the birth control technology of the time of Christ was the same 50 years, 100 years, 200 years+ after. (It was the same during the Roman Empire.) Couples tried to prevent the conception of a child through premature withdrawal, “primitive” drugs, or other means. If those efforts were unsuccessful, the mother tried to kill her child through abortion. The early Church condemned both of these actions: artificial contraception & abortion.
If you don’t believe something that the Church has taught for almost 2,000 years, then you decided to reject a 2,000 year old Church teaching.
And the comment about Jesus not saying anything about it. Jesus did not say anything about abortion, pornography, masturbation, rape, and a whole host of moral issues. (He may have said something about them, but they are not in the Gospels.)
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CelticSword
Guest
This thread as turned into such a heated debate regarding contraception and AIDS in Africa that no one has commented on the other bomb the Cardinal dropped:
Again, maybe he was misquoted or taken out of context.
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kaymart
Guest
Just because in the time of the Early Church they did not have the “technolgy” of today, they still did it. For example men men would use early withdrawal. (a form of birth control). Another example you could use is R and X rated movies did not exist in Jesus’ time. Of course He did not say you can not go to a Movie Theather and see an X rated film, but He did tell us that Adultery is a Sin that would fall into the catergory of viewing pornography. He did not tell us exactly, not to Drive a Ford Pick-up Truck while drunk, and plow into a carload of people, but He told us Thou Shall Not Kill, to repect life, yours and your fellowman. You are picking apart bits and pieces of The Church’s Teachings, try reading (or re-reading) your Basic Catholic Teachings.
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Ortho
Guest
Why is the age of a proposition meaningful?
I simply note Christians attach more importance to things Jesus didn’t mention, and less importance to things he did mention.
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Ortho
Guest
I agree they still did it without today’s technology. That’s why it is nteresting that Jesus said nothing about it.
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kaymart
Guest
You don’t get it, do you? Birth Control (other than NFP) is against the Teaching of the Catholic Church. It doesn’t matter if its Condoms, Pills diahgram, or premature withdrawal, it is against the teaching of the Church. “Be fruitful and mulitiply” does not mean use a condom.
And before you pose your next question, Didn’t God say that to Adam and Eve, not Jesus? I’ll answer it for you---- 3 persons one God--------another part of Catholic Teachings.
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Ortho
Guest
You don’t get it, do you? Birth Control (other than NFP) is against the Teaching of the Catholic Church. It doesn’t matter if its Condoms, Pills diahgram, or premature withdrawal, it is against the teaching of the Church. “Be fruitful and mulitiply” does not mean use a condom.
- I agree BC is against the teachings of the Church.
- I observe most Catholics have rejected those teachings.
- I observe Jesus said nothing about it.
- I observe the Church is following Jesus’ lead by saying little about it.
- I observe the decisions by both the laity and hierarchy have led to a situation where one pretends to lead, and the other pretends to follow.
K
kaymart
Guest
Ortho said:
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kylemeko
Guest
Well said Jimmy!!!
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Bella3502
Guest
There would be no one left to support the Catholic Church if all of the people using birth control were excommunicated. The sheer hipocrisy of this thread is overwhelming and tiresome.
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hasikelee
Guest
Goodness, nobody appears to have their thinking caps on and their ears open on this thread!
It looks like the jibes and whistles of a few who don’t care much (or perhaps care too much?) have turned it all into a tizzy.
For every fast, witty post on this thread, how many people read but did not post?
Here’s what I think. I have a loving fiance that I hope becomes my husband.
If I were infected with HIV (which has one of the highest conversion rates for a virus, meaning I would almost certainly get AIDS) then I would never engage in sexual intercourse with my husband again.
All these people talking so flippantly about how condoms can “reduce the risk” or “slow transmission…”
What in the world do you think you are talking about? A head cold?!! Do you know the suffering that comes from this horrible infection? As the immune system quickly shuts down, the body suffers from multiple diseases all at once, usually dying from such pleasant complications as pheumonia. Get thee to a hospital and help some of these people. See firsthand what you are sanctioning.
If we are indeed talking about people in Africa in abject poverty, then when those husbands use their wives (and use a condom) and when that condom fails to protect their wives from the virus, not only will the wife suffer a horrible, painful death, she might conceive a child, who in being delivered (without adequate medical attention) will be infected as well.
This is an affront to women’s rights and complete lunacy!
It looks like the jibes and whistles of a few who don’t care much (or perhaps care too much?) have turned it all into a tizzy.
For every fast, witty post on this thread, how many people read but did not post?
Here’s what I think. I have a loving fiance that I hope becomes my husband.
If I were infected with HIV (which has one of the highest conversion rates for a virus, meaning I would almost certainly get AIDS) then I would never engage in sexual intercourse with my husband again.
All these people talking so flippantly about how condoms can “reduce the risk” or “slow transmission…”
What in the world do you think you are talking about? A head cold?!! Do you know the suffering that comes from this horrible infection? As the immune system quickly shuts down, the body suffers from multiple diseases all at once, usually dying from such pleasant complications as pheumonia. Get thee to a hospital and help some of these people. See firsthand what you are sanctioning.
If we are indeed talking about people in Africa in abject poverty, then when those husbands use their wives (and use a condom) and when that condom fails to protect their wives from the virus, not only will the wife suffer a horrible, painful death, she might conceive a child, who in being delivered (without adequate medical attention) will be infected as well.
This is an affront to women’s rights and complete lunacy!
J
Julianna
Guest
bella, bella, bella,…
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The_Rock
Guest
Bella, I for one would still support the Church. Where else would I go? He has the words of everlasting life. And He speaks through HIS CHURCH
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Grace_Angel
Guest
Is there anything this dear cardinal would like to leave as authentic catholic? Or is he the voice Catholics for a free choice? He ought to hang his head in Shame. At that level of heirarchy to speak out against magisterium and church teachings. Shame Cardinal Shame.
Grace angel.
F
fix
Guest
The Church is not about numbers. It is about the salvation of souls.
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