Catholic Cardinal Robert Sarah Calls Abortion the “Greatest Tragedy of Our Time”

[irishpatrick]

While I agree, in fairness to the poster, he didn’t create the lists; they were de facto created by the people quoted.

Tha’s often the problem with words like “greatest”, worst", etc.

I agree, though I suppose when we take into account the 60,000,000 lives lost to abortion (just in the USA), that does go a long way toward being the greatest. It is with enormous sadness that a similar number were lost in World War II, and since abortion continues to take lives, and if we consider those lost across the west to legal abortion, it is beyond doubt the worst man-made slaughter in history and there is no end in sight.

 

[gracepoole]

I agree, though I suppose when we take into account the 60,000,000 lives lost to abortion (just in the USA), that does go a long way toward being the greatest. It is with enormous sadness that a similar number were lost in World War II, and since abortion continues to take lives, and if we consider those lost across the west to legal abortion, it is beyond doubt the worst man-made slaughter in history and there is no end in sight.

We judge the “worst man-made slaughter in history” by the numbers of those who die?

 

[irishpatrick]

We judge the “worst man-made slaughter in history” by the numbers of those who die?

I think judging the worst by how many innocents die is valid.

 

[JPUSC]

Our world is facing a refugee crisis of a magnitude not seen since the Second World War. This presents us with great challenges and many hard decisions. On this continent, too, thousands of persons are led to travel north in search of a better life for themselves and for their loved ones, in search of greater opportunities. Is this not what we want for our own children? We must not be taken aback by their numbers, but rather view them as persons, seeing their faces and listening to their stories, trying to respond as best we can to their situation. To respond in a way which is always humane, just and fraternal. We need to avoid a common temptation nowadays: to discard whatever proves troublesome. Let us remember the Golden Rule: “Do unto others as you would have them do unto you” (Mt 7:12).

This Rule points us in a clear direction. Let us treat others with the same passion and compassion with which we want to be treated. Let us seek for others the same possibilities which we seek for ourselves. Let us help others to grow, as we would like to be helped ourselves. In a word, if we want security, let us give security; if we want life, let us give life; if we want opportunities, let us provide opportunities. The yardstick we use for others will be the yardstick which time will use for us. The Golden Rule also reminds us of our responsibility to protect and defend human life at every stage of its development.

This conviction has led me, from the beginning of my ministry, to advocate at different levels for the global abolition of the death penalty. I am convinced that this way is the best, since every life is sacred, every human person is endowed with an inalienable dignity, and society can only benefit from the rehabilitation of those convicted of crimes. Recently my brother bishops here in the United States renewed their call for the abolition of the death penalty. Not only do I support them, but I also offer encouragement to all those who are convinced that a just and necessary punishment must never exclude the dimension of hope and the goal of rehabilitation.

In these times when social concerns are so important, I cannot fail to mention the Servant of God Dorothy Day, who founded the Catholic Worker Movement. Her social activism, her passion for justice and for the cause of the oppressed, were inspired by the Gospel, her faith, and the example of the saints.

How much progress has been made in this area in so many parts of the world! How much has been done in these first years of the third millennium to raise people out of extreme poverty! I know that you share my conviction that much more still needs to be done, and that in times of crisis and economic hardship a spirit of global solidarity must not be lost. At the same time I would encourage you to keep in mind all those people around us who are trapped in a cycle of poverty. They too need to be given hope. The fight against poverty and hunger must be fought constantly and on many fronts, especially in its causes. I know that many Americans today, as in the past, are working to deal with this problem.

It goes without saying that part of this great effort is the creation and distribution of wealth. The right use of natural resources, the proper application of technology and the harnessing of the spirit of enterprise are essential elements of an economy which seeks to be modern, inclusive and sustainable. “Business is a noble vocation, directed to producing wealth and improving the world. It can be a fruitful source of prosperity for the area in which it operates, especially if it sees the creation of jobs as an essential part of its service to the common good” (Laudato Si’, 129). This common good also includes the earth, a central theme of the encyclical which I recently wrote in order to “enter into dialogue with all people about our common home” (ibid., 3). “We need a conversation which includes everyone, since the environmental challenge we are undergoing, and its human roots, concern and affect us all” (ibid., 14).

In Laudato Si’, I call for a courageous and responsible effort to “redirect our steps” (ibid., 61), and to avert the most serious effects of the environmental deterioration caused by human activity. I am convinced that we can make a difference and I have no doubt that the United States – and this Congress – have an important role to play. Now is the time for courageous actions and strategies, aimed at implementing a “culture of care” (ibid., 231) and “an integrated approach to combating poverty, restoring dignity to the excluded, and at the same time protecting nature” (ibid., 139). “We have the freedom needed to limit and direct technology” (ibid., 112); “to devise intelligent ways of… developing and limiting our power” (ibid., 78); and to put technology “at the service of another type of progress, one which is healthier, more human, more social, more integral” (ibid., 112). In this regard, I am confident that America’s outstanding academic and research institutions can make a vital contribution in the years ahead.

**ADDRESS OF THE HOLY FATHER

United States Capitol, Washington, D.C.
Thursday, 24 September 2015**

m.vatican.va/content/francescomobile/en/speeches/2015/september/documents/papa-francesco_20150924_usa-us-congress.html

Hmm, let’s see…the leader of the Roman Catholic Church mentions a refugee crisis, the death penalty, the fight against poverty and hunger and environmentalism, but nothing against abortion.

You would think if he thinks abortion is such an urgent and pressing matter and the “greatest tragedy of our time,” that he would mention it by name before an audience of U.S. lawmakers.

 

[dmelosi]

I think judging the worst by how many innocents die is valid.

You could add to this comment…intentionally killed.

 

[JPUSC]

Emma Bonino:

"At 27, she had an illegal abortion and then worked with the Information Centre on Sterilisation and Abortion which boasted over 10,000 abortions. There are famous photos of Bonino performing illegal abortions using a homemade device operated by a bicycle pump. Arrested for the then-illegal activity, she spent a few days in jail, was acquitted and then entered politics, according to reports."

BUT…

"Over the past year, Bonino has taken on a cause which she believes to be the defining civil rights issue of our time: the rights of migrants. Over the past three years, more than half a million people have been rescued in the central Mediterranean Sea and brought to Italian ports.

While Italy has been praised for rescuing and caring for the migrants, largely from sub-Saharan Africa but also from the Maghreb and the Middle East, there has also been a vicious political backlash from the right, which wants to halt the flows. Bonino is ready for the argument. Last month, she delivered a short but passionate speech at a conference near Turin in which she warned of a “desertification” of Italy if it did not take in more immigrants, at least 160,000 a year, given the country’s low birth rate and ageing population.

She reprises the case as she sits back on the couch in her living room, which is also her study. “If there is one theme on which our interests coincide with our values, it’s immigration,” Bonino says. “Theoretically, it should be very easy: we need them. But no sir, it’s exactly the opposite, and that’s a problem”.

Consequently…

"She is also, in [Pope] Francis’s words, “among the great ones of today’s Italy’’ for her work as a refugee advocate."

Pope Francis acknowledged that his statements were "controversial’’ but dismissed them, saying, "True, but never mind. We have to look at people, at what they do.’'

christiantoday.com/article/pope.francis.praises.italys.leading.abortion.rights.proponent.draws.flak.from.church.traditionalists.pro.life.advocates/80803.htm

ft.com/content/76f01d5c-1ecc-11e7-b7d3-163f5a7f229c

theaustralian.com.au/opinion/pope-francis-driving-unprecedented-wedge-in-vatican/news-story/d95a4146fc8a57c05bc090f374a538d0

catholiccitizens.org/news/64666/theres-more-to-the-story-on-popes-praise-for-italys-leading-abortion-pusher

 

[gracepoole]

I think judging the worst by how many innocents die is valid.

And yet the Church teaches that all human life is sacred. The death of 100 innocent lives does not diminish or trump the death of the 1. Determining a hierarchy of suffering (i.e., this is the “worst” or “greatest” atrocity) is dangerous, as it inherently values some lives over others.

 

[Wedge_Antilles]

And yet the Church teaches that all human life is sacred. The death of 100 innocent lives does not diminish or trump the death of the 1. Determining a hierarchy of suffering (i.e., this is the “worst” or “greatest” atrocity) is dangerous, as it inherently values some lives over others.

True, but the good Cardinal and the Pope are the ones using qualifiers of “greatest” not any of us, even if I agree with Cardinal Sarah personally.

The issue should be with the use of the word “greatest” by the Holy Father and Cardinal, not on either statement specifically, if i understand you correctly.

 

[gracepoole]

True, but the good Cardinal and the Pope are the ones using qualifiers of “greatest” not any of us, even if I agree with Cardinal Sarah personally.

The issue should be with the use of the word “greatest” by the Holy Father and Cardinal, not on either statement specifically, if i understand you correctly.

Yes, I agree. Though the word “worst” has been used in this thread…

 

[irishpatrick]

And yet the Church teaches that all human life is sacred. The death of 100 innocent lives does not diminish or trump the death of the 1. Determining a hierarchy of suffering (i.e., this is the “worst” or “greatest” atrocity) is dangerous, as it inherently values some lives over others.

If you read my posts on this thread, you will see I agree. I’m not advocating for making lists, I was simply saying worse case scenarios are when innocents are killed. It does not matter if it 1, or millions, it is still a worse case scenario.

 

[gracepoole]

If you read my posts on this thread, you will see I agree. I’m not advocating for making lists, I was simply saying worse case scenarios are when innocents are killed. It does not matter if it 1, or millions, it is still a worse case scenario.

I’m greatly confused, then, by this post:

I agree, though I suppose when we take into account the 60,000,000 lives lost to abortion (just in the USA), that does go a long way toward being the greatest. It is with enormous sadness that a similar number were lost in World War II, and since abortion continues to take lives, and if we consider those lost across the west to legal abortion, it is beyond doubt the worst man-made slaughter in history and there is no end in sight.

 

[JPUSC]

New Statute for the Pontifical Academy for Life

§ 3 – The Academy has a task of a prevalently scientific nature, directed towards the promotion and defence of human life (cf. Vitae Mysterium, 4). In particular, it studies the various aspects that relate to the care of the dignity of the human person at the different ages of existence, mutual respect between genders and generations, the defence of the dignity of each single human being, the promotion of a quality of human life that integrates material and spiritual value, with a view to an authentic “human ecology”, which may help to recover the original balance of Creation between the human person and the entire universe (cf. Chirograph, 15 August 2016).

en.radiovaticana.va/news/2016/11/05/new_statute_for_the_pontifical_academy_for_life/1270341

 

[JPUSC]

We must not be indifferent or resigned to the loss of biodiversity and the destruction of ecosystems, often caused by our irresponsible and selfish behaviour. “Because of us, thousands of species will no longer give glory to God by their very existence, nor convey their message to us. We have no such right” (ibid., 33).

Global warming continues, due in part to human activity: 2015 was the warmest year on record, and 2016 will likely be warmer still. This is leading to ever more severe droughts, floods, fires and extreme weather events. Climate change is also contributing to the heart-rending refugee crisis. The world’s poor, though least responsible for climate change, are most vulnerable and already suffering its impact.

As an integral ecology emphasizes, human beings are deeply connected with all of creation. When we mistreat nature, we also mistreat human beings. At the same time, each creature has its own intrinsic value that must be respected. Let us hear “both the cry of the earth and the cry of the poor” (Laudato Si’, 49), and do our best to ensure an appropriate and timely response…

After a serious examination of conscience and moved by sincere repentance, we can confess our sins against the Creator, against creation, and against our brothers and sisters. “The Catechism of the Catholic Church presents the confessional as the place where the truth makes us free.” We know that “God is greater than our sin,” than all our sins, including those against the environment. We confess them because we are penitent and desire to change. The merciful grace of God received in the sacrament will help us to do so.

Examining our consciences, repentance and confession to our Father who is rich in mercy lead to a firm purpose of amendment. This in turn must translate into concrete ways of thinking and acting that are more respectful of creation. For example: “avoiding the use of plastic and paper, reducing water consumption, separating refuse, cooking only what can reasonably be consumed, showing care for other living beings, using public transport or car-pooling, planting trees, turning off unnecessary lights, or any number of other practices” (Laudato Si’, 211).

MESSAGE OF HIS HOLINESS POPE FRANCIS FOR THE CELEBRATION OF THE WORLD DAY OF PRAYER FOR THE CARE OF CREATION

1 SEPTEMBER 2016

m.vatican.va/content/francescomobile/en/messages/pont-messages/2016/documents/papa-francesco_20160901_messaggio-giornata-cura-creato.html

 

[I_trust]

I agree, though I suppose when we take into account the 60,000,000 lives lost to abortion (just in the USA), that does go a long way toward being the greatest. It is with enormous sadness that a similar number were lost in World War II, and since abortion continues to take lives, and if we consider those lost across the west to legal abortion, it is beyond doubt the worst man-made slaughter in history and there is no end in sight.

Since WW2 has been mentioned we have to take into account that abortion is a WORLDWIDE tragedy…

Just under 1.5 BILLION abortions worldwide since 1980.

Abortion tickers…
numberofabortions.com/

 

[ProdigalSun]

We must not be indifferent or resigned to the loss of biodiversity and the destruction of ecosystems, often caused by our irresponsible and selfish behaviour. “Because of us, thousands of species will no longer give glory to God by their very existence, nor convey their message to us. We have no such right” (ibid., 33).

Global warming continues, due in part to human activity: 2015 was the warmest year on record, and 2016 will likely be warmer still. This is leading to ever more severe droughts, floods, fires and extreme weather events. Climate change is also contributing to the heart-rending refugee crisis. The world’s poor, though least responsible for climate change, are most vulnerable and already suffering its impact.

As an integral ecology emphasizes, human beings are deeply connected with all of creation. When we mistreat nature, we also mistreat human beings. At the same time, each creature has its own intrinsic value that must be respected. Let us hear “both the cry of the earth and the cry of the poor” (Laudato Si’, 49), and do our best to ensure an appropriate and timely response…

After a serious examination of conscience and moved by sincere repentance, we can confess our sins against the Creator, against creation, and against our brothers and sisters. “The Catechism of the Catholic Church presents the confessional as the place where the truth makes us free.” We know that “God is greater than our sin,” than all our sins, including those against the environment. We confess them because we are penitent and desire to change. The merciful grace of God received in the sacrament will help us to do so.

Examining our consciences, repentance and confession to our Father who is rich in mercy lead to a firm purpose of amendment. This in turn must translate into concrete ways of thinking and acting that are more respectful of creation. For example: “avoiding the use of plastic and paper, reducing water consumption, separating refuse, cooking only what can reasonably be consumed, showing care for other living beings, using public transport or car-pooling, planting trees, turning off unnecessary lights, or any number of other practices” (Laudato Si’, 211).

MESSAGE OF HIS HOLINESS POPE FRANCIS FOR THE CELEBRATION OF THE WORLD DAY OF PRAYER FOR THE CARE OF CREATION

1 SEPTEMBER 2016

m.vatican.va/content/francescomobile/en/messages/pont-messages/2016/documents/papa-francesco_20160901_messaggio-giornata-cura-creato.html

Still lives lost by all this blah, blah, blah… does not come close to the lives lost by Abortion. Please explain to me how the refugee crisis is a greater tragedy. Try your own words, philosphy, and logic. Please expalin how they even can be compared with the loss of life taken in abortion. That would be quite the mental acrobatices if you could some how explain the difference!

 

[JPUSC]

Still lives lost by all this blah, blah, blah… does not come close to the lives lost by Abortion. Please explain to me how the refugee crisis is a greater tragedy. Try your own words, philosphy, and logic. Please expalin how they even can be compared with the loss of life taken in abortion. That would be quite the mental acrobatices if you could some how explain the difference!

Why would I use my own words when your leader of the Roman Catholic Church says otherwise?

Perhaps I was actually on your side, but now I’m indifferent because why should I care if even the pope doesn’t.

 

[ProdigalSun]

Why would I use my own words when your leader of the Roman Catholic Church says otherwise?

Perhaps I was actually on your side, but now I’m indifferent because why should I care if even the pope doesn’t.

Oh I assure you the Pope cares a great deal about abortion.

lifesitenews.com/news/pope-francis-condemns-abortion-euthanasia-same-sex-marriage-in-exhortation

catholicnewsagency.com/news/pope-francis-blasts-abortion-euthanasia-as-sins-against-god-70913/

cruxnow.com/vatican/2016/11/20/pope-francis-calls-abortion-horrendous-crime-grave-sin/

“My own Leader” can be wrong about many issues as his personal opinion is not considered infallible. I ask you to use your own words so you can utilize some common sense with regard to which tragedy is greater by the overwhelming number of innocent victims on one side or the other.

It really is a common sense issue after that.

Peace!

 

[dmelosi]

Oh I assure you the Pope cares a great deal about abortion.

lifesitenews.com/news/pope-francis-condemns-abortion-euthanasia-same-sex-marriage-in-exhortation

catholicnewsagency.com/news/pope-francis-blasts-abortion-euthanasia-as-sins-against-god-70913/

cruxnow.com/vatican/2016/11/20/pope-francis-calls-abortion-horrendous-crime-grave-sin/

“My own Leader” can be wrong about many issues as his personal opinion is not considered infallible. I ask you to use your own words so you can utilize some common sense with regard to which tragedy is greater by the overwhelming number of innocent victims on one side or the other.

It really is a common sense issue after that.

Peace!

I think what JPUSC was referring to was the earlier post in this thread that quoted the pope as saying that immigration was the greatest tragedy.

 

[ProdigalSun]

I think what JPUSC was referring to was the earlier post in this thread that quoted the pope as saying that immigration was the greatest tragedy.

In post 31 JPUSC indicated that he thinks our Pope doesn’t care about abortion. I was just showing him he does. Whether or not Pope Francis believes the refugee crisis is the worlds greatest tragedy does not mean I or anyone has to agree with him. I personally see a degree of tragedy by the loss of innocent lives. THis does not mean that I’m indifferent the the Crisis, I’m Not!

I’m asking him to qualify in his own words which tragedy is greater. Thats all.

It is a no brainer if you ask me!

 

[dmelosi]

In post 31 JPUSC indicated that he thinks our Pope doesn’t care about abortion. I was just showing him he does. Whether or not Pope Francis believes the refugee crisis is the worlds greatest tragedy does not mean I or anyone has to agree with him. I personally see a degree of tragedy by the loss of innocent lives. THis does not mean that I’m indifferent the the Crisis, I’m Not!

I’m asking him to qualify in his own words which tragedy is greater. Thats all.

It is a no brainer if you ask me!

Very well said, I agree 100%.

I read it that JPUSC was showing his/her displeasure that the pope didn’t also say it this way, but I could be wrong.