Catholic categories of mandatory belief/behavior

[jack63]

I took it with him, only to learn many years later from a different Catholic that what I did could have caused my death and was a grave sin.

Only if you do this with full knowledge that what you are doing is not allowed. Many people don’t know this. I mean for this to be true you’d really have to fully understand and have an intent to deceive. It is better to just go receive a blessing with your arms crossed if you are not Catholic.

 

[jack63]

All male priesthood (no women priests).

There is another point that perhaps needs clarified here. There is an on going study and discussion about the possibility of woman deacons in the Catholic Church. For example, there recently was a Vatican study on the subject. Female Deacons did exist historically, but the big question is what they actually did historically and was this similar to what a male Deacon did.

So yes there is chance there may be some type of female clergy in the Catholic Church. Does this mean that woman will be able to take holy orders similar to men? If women can be a Deacon couldn’t women be a priest? I would agree with others and say “no” to both questions based on what Saint JP2 said. If woman became deacons they would need to be part of a different order than men even if part of their role overlapped with male clergy.

With all this being said, female clergy in the Catholic Church won’t happen anytime soon.

 

[Lenten_ashes]

jack63:

I do sympathize with you. As a Non-Catholic coming in and reading detailed conversations here on any one of these topics, I could easily see how some of these threads would elicit the response “What the…!” Honestly, even as a Catholic adult convert who went through RCIA, I’m still learning new things here.

Yes, this. However, the answers given by everyone have been very helpful in understanding how different things are categorized in Catholicism, which can appear complicated to a non-Catholic, at least to this small town boy.

If I were a Catholic, at least until I got the hang of it, I think I would be worried about sins of omission or commission related to some of these things I mentioned, as well as a few others I haven’t mentioned that I am curious about, such as if it is a sin for a Catholic to never do the Rosary.

I now understand why there appear to be so many scrupulous Catholics and why I see different threads on CAF about whether this or that action is a mortal sin or not, especially since salvation in Catholicism apparently hinges on knowing and following many rules and regulations. Thankfully, the saving grace of Catholicism (to me) seems to be there is abundant forgiveness in cases where people break rules unknowingly or out of ignorance.

For example, when I was in high school many moons ago, I attended a Mass with a Catholic buddy of mine after I had a spiritual awakening and made a life commitment to follow Jesus and he did, too. However, I was not Catholic. He invited me to go up and take the Eucharist with him, which I did. I remember him saying, you can take it on one condition – that you believe this is really truly the body and blood of Jesus. I told him, "If they say it is, I believe it too because I want more of Jesus in my life" so I took it with him, only to learn many years later from a different Catholic that what I did could have caused my death and was a grave sin. Therefore, I’ve been a little gun shy of Catholicism and all of its rules and regulations ever since and am just now broaching the subject again.

I did the same – took communion only to find out later i was not supposed to. ugh

Yeah, a lot of scrupulous Catholics out there. As a priest once told me when i made my act of contrition, just tell Jesus you are sorry for your sins and thank him for forgiving you. He said unfortunately the Church has sorta lost her way over the years and needs to be less mechanical.

I will be missing Mass tomorrow – i have a cold. Dont want to blow my nose in there every 5 seconds and dont want to infect others with my germs, so I’ll sit home and watch TV and wont feel the slightest bit worried about going to hell for missing Church. Lord knows our heart’s and He knows all things.

 

[po18guy]

Hey Tommy! Get a copy of Catholicism for Dummies by Frs. John Trigilio and Kenneth Brighenti. It’s all in there in an easily read and digested format.

 

[Tis_Bearself]

He invited me to go up and take the Eucharist with him, which I did. I remember him saying, you can take it on one condition – that you believe this is really truly the body and blood of Jesus. I told him, " If they say it is, I believe it too because I want more of Jesus in my life" so I took it with him, only to learn many years later from a different Catholic that what I did could have caused my death and was a grave sin.

Your friend was wrong as Catholic laypeople should not be advising non-Catholics to receive Communion. In some special circumstances a priest may choose to permit this, but it is up to the priest, not laypeople, to decide. However, since you didn’t know the rules yourself and simply relied on your Catholic friend’s advice, then God would not hold your mistake against you.

Yes, Catholicism is complicated and I must admit that even I find the “technical rules” aspect of it to be annoying at times, such as when Catholics get into an argument over some technical detail as if they were two lawyers going at it. There are definitely some Catholics who are into showing off how much they know. In the end I think God looks at the heart and intent of each person and not whether they had perfect technical knowledge.

 

[stpurl]

You’re right about the knowledge, but in many dioceses, ‘coming up for a blessing with your arms crossed’ is NOT a custom and in fact leads to confusion.

If you are not Catholic, remain in the pew at communion time. Really. If you’re ‘in the middle’, then get up along with the others, process out, but don’t go forward. When everybody is ‘out’, go back into the pew and then walk down at the opposite end and wait; when you see the people returning, exit the pew, stand slightly back, let the people who were to your right go in, then you go back, then let the people who were to your left enter (this is if the people in your pew went ‘to the right’ to get in line. Reverse this if the people in your pew went ‘to the left’ to get into line). That way you don’t have people having to maneuver over you to get in and out, and you don’t wind up in the uncomfortable position of having somebody thrust the host or cup at you, or whisper scold you, or just stand there not doing what to do themselves. Also a good way to not even have to worry about this is to either sit in the far back alone or nearly alone, or else to sit in the far front to the side as close as possible to the end of the pew so that you can move as little as possible and be back in very quickly.

 

[1ke]

So yes there is chance there may be some type of female clergy in the Catholic Church. Does this mean that woman will be able to take holy orders similar to men? If women can be a Deacon couldn’t women be a priest?

Any female “deacon” would not have holy Orders and no, could not be a priest.

 

[1ke]

because a large majority of forum members see this as an issue on which the Church has infallilbly already said “NO” and anyone who even suggests otherwise is speaking against Church teaching and is out of line and probably has an agenda.

Ordinatio Sacerdotalis is the document to look to on this.

Female deaconesses in the early church had a non-ordained role. That’s fine. Ordination, Holy Orders, is reserved to men. As Ordinatio Sacerdotalis says::

Although the teaching that priestly ordination is to be reserved to men alone has been preserved by the constant and universal Tradition of the Church and firmly taught by the Magisterium in its more recent documents, at the present time in some places it is nonetheless considered still open to debate, or the Church’s judgment that women are not to be admitted to ordination is considered to have a merely disciplinary force.

Wherefore, in order that all doubt may be removed regarding a matter of great importance, a matter which pertains to the Church’s divine constitution itself, in virtue of my ministry of confirming the brethren (cf. Lk 22:32) I declare that the Church has no authority whatsoever to confer priestly ordination on women and that this judgment is to be definitively held by all the Church’s faithful.

I don’t know why people want to argue that the Church doesn’t teach this definitively.

 

[Tis_Bearself]

By the way, I made no “argument” whatsoever. I said it was a poor discussion topic for the reasons I expressed in my above post.
And I also made clear I am not going to discuss it here. There are a whole list of topics I do not discuss on the forum because this is not a fruitful or good place to do so, and people just get upset.
Have a nice day.

 

[jack63]

I see this opened a huge can of worms. Just trying to answer the OP question. The study the Vatican did is fact. They really did do a study recently that was inconclusive. Take that to mean what you will.

 

[Tommy999]

Thanks again to all who replied. I wish to close this thread at this time, as my questions have been answered to my satisfaction.

 

[TheLittleLady]

Whether all priests will ever be allowed to marry.

Hang on a sec while I call the two married priests who are my friends. Married men may be ordained, ordained men may not marry. There are roughly 150 married Latin Rite Catholic priests in the US now.

Eating fish on Fridays.

Abstaining from meat on Friday as a penance is something I do all year long. One’s Bishop determines if it is binding on yourself.

All male priesthood (no women priests).

Doctrine with a capital D. Cannot ever change.

Sunday obligation is considered mortal sin.

Doctrine with a capital D. There are circumstances where one is excused from the obligation. I’d suggest studying that one.

Genuflecting in church

Pious custom to Genuflect to the Tabernacle if the Sacred Host is reposed. When there is no Sacrament in repose, such as on Good Friday, we simply bow to the Altar.

Feast days and dates given for them.

Family celebrations. Sometimes we celebrate my sister’s birthday early when everyone can be there. No big deal.

Protestants are viewed as “separated brethren” but considered Christian by the Church

Doctrine that validly baptized persons are Christians.

Birth control seen as mortal sin.

Again, established doctrine against Contraception. The mortal sin part is depending on the usual conditions.

 

[1ke]

Doctrine with a capital D. There are circumstances where one is excused from the obligation. I’d suggest studying that one.

Hi Little Lady,

The commandment to keep the Lord’s Day Holy (Sabbath in the Old Law, Lord’s Day in the New Law) is certainly part of the moral law, but can be fulfilled in many ways.

The obligation to attend mass on Sundays and holy days is not doctrinal, it is a discipline of the Church and binding only on Catholics.