Catholic Charismatic Renewal, an effective response to Charismatic Evanglicals?

[Kendy]

I hope that they would be more mature not to grab at me…plain and simple…lets not lead them down the wrong road in their journey…let us lead by example of what is proper and called for!

Let us not lead them down the wrong road???:banghead: We are still talking about hand holding here because one might get the impression that they are being led into mortal sin. :banghead:

 

[Karin]

Sorry, I’m not going to play to the innovators ploy. You know…
YOU, Mrs. traditionalist are not being Christian.

Mrs. traditionalist goes along, head hung,

Five years later, liturgical committee claims handholding was “organic”.

Right! Fool me once, shame on you.
Fool me twice, shame on me

you know I really am sorry…but I have to say no at some point in time…hand holding outside of the hygenie issues really distracts me from my worship of Christ!

 

[Kendy]

I hope that they would be more mature not to grab at me…plain and simple…lets not lead them down the wrong road in their journey…let us lead by example of what is proper and called for!

And obviously that is just my point. Anyone who is going to leave over some slight offense is not spiritually mature. That’s why it’s important that you be more mature, and more importantly, more loving.

 

[Karin]

Let us not lead them down the wrong road???:banghead: We are still talking about hand holding here because one might get the impression that they are being led into mortal sin. :banghead:

nope it is not a mortal sin…but it is not called for either…so why do it? Not all of us are into this nor do we wish to be dragged into it!

 

[Karin]

And obviously that is just my point. Anyone who is going to leave over some slight offense is not spiritually mature. That’s why it’s important that you be more mature, and more importantly, more loving.

So to heck with my worship?
Why must people touch me at Mass…I am there to worship not have a touchy feely experience-if I wanted that I would go home to my dh and have one!
Hence this hand holding in Mass has lead me on a long journay to find a parish that does not do this:thumbsup:

 

[Kendy]

So to heck with my worship?
Why must people touch me at Mass…I am there to worship not have a touchy feely experience-if I wanted that I would go home to my dh and have one!
Hence this hand holding in Mass has lead me on a long journay to find a parish that does not do this:thumbsup:

My spiritual director and I had a good conversation about this topic recently. He pointed out that it’s more important for me to be part of a catholic community than to find the perfect mass, which is what I was beginning to think anyway. What if the priest where you are leaves and someone else not so orthodox comes. Will you not be able to worship? There are many, many little thing that can interfere with our worship if we let them.

And no offense, but traditionalist often criticize other people for caring more about “their experience” than worship, but to drive an hour away from home for mass says to me that you are also seeking an experience. Sure, it’s a orthodox experience, but it’s one that interacts with your senses in a enjoyable way.

I don’t mean to be insulting because until recently, I too was driving all over creation seeking the perfect mass experience, but then I realize it’s not about me. So, I went back to a parish that I had shunned, where the priest had humiliated me and today, I found a spiritual lesson in what he was saying. This was suprising to me, but I think it was God’s way of saying to me, Don’t pay attention to all the things that are lacking in this priest and in this praish BECAUSE I AM STILL HERE!

Kendy

 

[Karin]

My spiritual director and I had a good conversation about this topic recently. He pointed out that it’s more important for me to be part of a catholic community than to find the perfect mass, which is what I was beginning to think anyway. What if the priest where you are leaves and someone else not so orthodox comes. Will you not be able to worship? There are many, many little thing that can interfere with our worship if we let them.

and grabbing my hand is one of those things…and yes if our current priest leaves and a less orthodox one comes and he allows these things…then yes I will leave and restart my search!

And no offense, but traditionalist often criticize other people for caring more about “their experience” than worship, but to drive an hour away from home for mass says to me that you are also seeking an experience. Sure, it’s a orthodox experience, but it’s one that interacts with your senses in a enjoyable way.

no offense taken.Yes I am seeking a Mass that to me is respectful and in line with the Church. If I want to recieve on the tongue I will (many parishes the dont allow it or make you uncomfortable if you do)…I want a parish with Adoration 24/7 not on some random day for a few hours…I also want a parish where the members are not grabbing at each other…I also want homilies that inspire are meaningful and not full of a sales pitch or some other announcements!
If this means i have to drive an hour to get these things…then guess what I will!
I belonged to a Church for 3 years that was not traditional…it saddended me…I would avoid mass because I did not like the Church/Mass etc. and every Mass I walked away with that feeling of I am missing something, this is not right!
So I Found my current Parish…it brought tears to my eyes to see all that I was missing…and guess what the new Church
(where my eldest was Confirmed this past year) has never left me feeling like I was laking anything when I left after Sunday Mass…even my eldest son has said that he enjoys Mass now…he is getting somethign out of it:thumbsup:

I don’t mean to be insulting because until recently, I too was driving all over creation seeking the perfect mass experience, but then I realize it’s not about me. So, I went back to a parish that I had shunned, where the priest had humiliated me and today, I found a spiritual lesson in what he was saying. This was suprising to me, but I think it was God’s way of saying to me, Don’t pay attention to all the things that are lacking in this priest and in this praish BECAUSE I AM STILL HERE!

Kendy

well I am glad for you but my family and I will not settle for something that leaves us empty…we know that there is somethign else out there and that is what we want!

 

[happygal]

IF you follow the GRIM for a mass then I have no problems with the mass…but when you lay down on the floor, wave your arms or other abuses than yeah I guess I have a problem with that

**Hi Karin

It all depend on individual preference , you can stand , sit or lay down…however most cases pple lay down is to relax their body and let Holy Spirit come to fill them up. Wave arms, hm…i guess some pple just have that consuming fire inside them that they display out in such excited manner…however i believe not everyone will display such posture!!! To bolt down to individual. Everyone are created differently thus their way for demonstrating their anxiety are also different. However i do understand pple who always prefer the traditional will definitely have problem with such uncomfort display of others!!**

 

[Karin]

Hi Karin

It all depend on individual preference , you can stand , sit or lay down…however most cases pple lay down is to relax their body and let Holy Spirit come to fill them up. Wave arms, hm…i guess some pple just have that consuming fire inside them that they display out in such excited manner…however i believe not everyone will display such posture!!! To bolt down to individual. Everyone are created differently thus their way for demonstrating their anxiety are also different. However i do understand pple who always prefer the traditional will definitely have problem with such uncomfort display of others!!

I am sorry but where does it state that laying down is acceptable during Mass?
I can see the people at mass staring at me in shock if I did this (lay down)…now can you imgaine if we all layed down at the same time…and a non-catholic walked in at that moment they more than likely would think he was not in a Catholic Church !

 

[happygal]

I am sorry but where does it state that laying down is acceptable during Mass?

**Karin

I really don’t know how Catholic conduct their Charismatic renewal, for my church we only do it after preaching service. What i mean those are some of the way pple react during renewal.
I believe it is always good to have renewal after the Mass.**

I can see the people at mass staring at me in shock if I did this (lay down)…now can you imgaine if we all layed down at the same time…and a non-catholic walked in at that moment they more than likely would think he was not in a Catholic Church !

**Karin, if everyone bother how others look at them rather then how God look at them, then something is wrong here!!! We walk a life to follow God and care more how God looks at us from inside not others. For example if you are move by Holy Spirit and your body just react to that lay down posture, do you think you really mind others staring at you, or would you just be happy to be fill with spirit working inside u ?? God will not tell you what or how he conduct his renewal in you, just take a step out to let Holy Spirit guide you. 'So if any Catholic all of a sudden lay down during renewal session, you think is funny or strange!! To me is not, coz Holy Spirit is at work!!! **

 

[Karin]

Karin

I really don’t know how Catholic conduct their Charismatic renewal, for my church we only do it after preaching service. What i mean those are some of the way pple react during renewal.
I believe it is always good to have renewal after the Mass.

Renewal?

**Karin, if everyone bother how others look at them rather then how God look at them, then something is wrong here!!! We walk a life to follow God and care more how God looks at us from inside not others. For example if you are move by Holy Spirit and your body just react to that lay down posture, do you think you really mind others staring at you, or would you just be happy to be fill with spirit working inside u ?? God will not tell you what or how he conduct his renewal in you, just take a step out to let Holy Spirit guide you. 'So if any Catholic all of a sudden lay down during renewal session, you think is funny or strange!! To me is not, coz Holy Spirit is at work!!! **

what is a renewal session? I was speaking in terms of this happening during the Holy Mass

 

[MaryD7]

Karin, below is a copy of my post (#143). I think it got lost in the conversation that you were having with Kendy.

I truly don’t believe that those pictures are of a Mass, based on my experience.

I know that I’m jumping in late but I do want to know if these pictures are from a Mass or a prayer meeting.

I’ve been to Charismatic prayer meetings where there are people slain in the Spirit, speaking in tongues, etc. The protocal is a lot looser than at a Mass.

I’ve also been to Mass where AFTER the Mass those who desire to be prayed over gather towards the front of the church and each is prayed over by the priest. The Mass itself was very moving in a deeply spiritual, peaceful and respectful sense. There was no dancing, no chaos, etc. There was nothing added or subtracted from the Mass. In fact, the beauty of the Mass seemed to be enhanced by the Spirit of the Lord.

I’ve never been to a Charismatic Mass where liberties were taken.

Just an observer’s viewpoint …

 

[Karin]

Karin, below is a copy of my post (#143). I think it got lost in the conversation that you were having with Kendy.

I truly don’t believe that those pictures are of a Mass, based on my experience.

Mary-
Thank you…I did miss that earlier post from you…what you describe I have no issue with!

 

[MaryD7]

Mary-
Thank you…I did miss that earlier post from you…what you describe I have no issue with!

I’m glad. I know I would have been turned off if I felt like I was in a circus.

And this is another little nugget of info … in my experience, people don’t ‘lay down’ out of self-will. It’s called being slain in the Spirit. As the priest prays over a person something happens that causes the person to sort of drop to the ground. That’s why they have two strong men standing behind people when the priest prays over them. I know this sounds a little wacky but I can tell you first hand that it happens. I’m not an hysterical person. In fact, I’m rather uptight. So to find myself on the floor not being able to move really threw me. It is the strangest thing. It’s like you are conscience but your limbs are numb.

I don’t consider this an evil or threatening thing at all. In fact, I consider the Charismatic Masses that I attended key in healing the effects of sexual abuse. Also, because of these Masses I converted to RC from Fundamental Baptist.

 

[dumspirospero]

I beg to differ…so would Jesus. According to the New St. Joseph Baltimore Catechism No. 1, Lesson 6 on Actual Sin, page 31…it says, and I quote: “Let us remember what Jesus has said: ‘He who is faithful in a very little thing is faithful also in much; and he who is unjust in a very little thing is unjust also in much’ (Luke 16, 10)”

How hard is it to follow simple, little directives given to us from The Holy See in matters of behavior and attire while at Mass? How hard is it for a Bishop to actually be orthodox and require that his priest follow the rules and not encourage indifference, such as Mahony? These things sound like the little things to me that Jesus was talking about. If we can’t do these little things…what else are we failing to do?

You are right though Kendy…the Devil is definitely at work here and he is having a great laugh, because the Devil is very good at blurring the lines between right and wrong, until people do not have a concept of what is right and what is wrong…they have no compass left to guide them and all of a sudden everything is acceptable…soon, everyone feels they should “have it their way” in all matters.

Yes, there are rules and they are there to guide us, but there’s a difference between abortion and hand-holding, and we need to have enough spiritual discernment recognize when it’s time to dig in our heels, and when it’s time to say to someone else, “have it your way.”

Kendy

 

[happygal]

Renewal?
what is a renewal session? I was speaking in terms of this happening during the Holy Mass

Oopps…wrong channel… , i thought we were talking about the session in 2nd Photo which is a Charismatic renewal, of course that kind of session will not be held during Mass or even during any protestant services, usually is after the normal service/mass…

 

[dumspirospero]

Let me ask you…if this is truly The Holy Spirit filling them…then why on God’s Green Earth, would they be overcome with anxiety and be forced to fall to the ground and sometimes even flop around like a fish out of water?

Hi Karin

It all depend on individual preference , you can stand , sit or lay down…however most cases pple lay down is to relax their body and let Holy Spirit come to fill them up. Everyone are created differently thus their way for demonstrating their anxiety are also different. However i do understand pple who always prefer the traditional will definitely have problem with such uncomfort display of others!!

 

[Karin]

I beg to differ…so would Jesus. According to the New St. Joseph Baltimore Catechism No. 1, Lesson 6 on Actual Sin, page 31…it says, and I quote: “Let us remember what Jesus has said: ‘He who is faithful in a very little thing is faithful also in much; and he who is unjust in a very little thing is unjust also in much’ (Luke 16, 10)”

How hard is it to follow simple, little directives given to us from The Holy See in matters of behavior and attire while at Mass? How hard is it for a Bishop to actually be orthodox and require that his priest follow the rules and not encourage indifference, such as Mahony? These things sound like the little things to me that Jesus was talking about. If we can’t do these little things…what else are we failing to do?

you know the more I read your posts the moer I like you…Did I read correctly that you are thinking of joining the seminary…if that is true we are truly blessed!

 

[Karin]

Let me ask you…if this is truly The Holy Spirit filling them…then why on God’s Green Earth, would they be overcome with anxiety and be forced to fall to the ground and sometimes even flop around like a fish out of water?

can I direct you to this answer…
*And this is another little nugget of info … in my experience, people don’t ‘lay down’ out of self-will. It’s called being slain in the Spirit. As the priest prays over a person something happens that causes the person to sort of drop to the ground. That’s why they have two strong men standing behind people when the priest prays over them. I know this sounds a little wacky but I can tell you first hand that it happens. I’m not an hysterical person. In fact, I’m rather uptight. So to find myself on the floor not being able to move really threw me. It is the strangest thing. It’s like you are conscience but your limbs are numb.

I don’t consider this an evil or threatening thing at all. In fact, I consider the Charismatic Masses that I attended key in healing the effects of sexual abuse. Also, because of these Masses I converted to RC from Fundamental Baptist*.
forums.catholic-questions.org/showpost.php?p=1804852&postcount=193

 

[dumspirospero]

So…I guess Catholics prior to Duquesne Weekend" in 1967 were just not filled with The Holy Ghost…nor open to the Charisms/Gifts that the Holy Ghost pours out on us…I am sorry…I don’t buy into it. Does that make me a bad Catholic?

I’m glad. I know I would have been turned off if I felt like I was in a circus.

And this is another little nugget of info … in my experience, people don’t ‘lay down’ out of self-will. It’s called being slain in the Spirit. As the priest prays over a person something happens that causes the person to sort of drop to the ground. That’s why they have two strong men standing behind people when the priest prays over them. I know this sounds a little wacky but I can tell you first hand that it happens. I’m not an hysterical person. In fact, I’m rather uptight. So to find myself on the floor not being able to move really threw me. It is the strangest thing. It’s like you are conscience but your limbs are numb.

I don’t consider this an evil or threatening thing at all. In fact, I consider the Charismatic Masses that I attended key in healing the effects of sexual abuse. Also, because of these Masses I converted to RC from Fundamental Baptist.