Catholic Charismatic Renewal, an effective response to Charismatic Evanglicals?

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Oh wow, those pictures are from my diocese (I’m in Nashville). I didn’t even know we had Charismatic services here. I know we have a Tridentine Mass church here St. Mary’s I believe. I just found out about it. I’m probably going to go check that out (the Tridentine I mean). I’m kind of conservative when it comes to religion though so I tend think we should always look back to our roots. That’s me though.

While I’m certainly not going to judge the Charismatic movement as I really know little about its expression in the Catholic Church. I do have concerns about it because I think that overall its been a dangerous movement within the evangelical church. Now the Catholic version may be totally different I don’t know I hope it is anyway.
 
Most of the things i have posted in various threads are definite ligturgical abuses…which I am not sure if that has any meaning to you, since you are not Catholic…I am not sure if any of the things cited are theologically incorrect or heretical…I do not believe them to be…but I have never opposed the CCR because of those reasons…I just get sick to my stomach when I see all the widespread liturgical abuses that take place at Charismatic and Life Teen masses…maybe I have an OCD complex about this or something…but it is just bothersome to me. It would be nice to find those more theologically gifted than myself to say whether or not any of these things are theologically flawed.
Contarini said:
Perhaps you have done what I asked and I missed the post. What I’m looking for is a statement clarifying exactly what principles of Christian worship are being violated by the pictures of Charismatic worship you cited. In the posts I’ve read, you simply describe as if what you were describing was self-evidently wrong.

Edwin
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dumspirospero said:
.I just get sick to my stomach when I see all the widespread liturgical abuses that take place at Charismatic and Life Teen masses…maybe I have an OCD complex about this or something…but it is just bothersome to me.
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I’m not sure that this is a bad thing, you know.
 
netmil(name removed by moderator) said:
I think you need to talk to the Vatican about taking liberties. I guess if I wanted to shorkle next to you, it wouldn’t bother you at all. Fair enough. How about fingering a Rosary? How about laying prostrate? How about if we all do our own thing?

Not to get off topic, because it really isn’t. When the Charismatics come into a parish, they need to look at the Unity already there instead of doing their own thing.
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We should allow liberties to the extent that it is reverent and not disrupting. Someone laying prostrate at Mass does more to draw attention to themselves and may be disruptive, But fingering a rosary, or raising your hands does little to disturb other people while it allows the individual to express their personal piety.

There are ways to keep mass resonably orderly while not micromanaging everyone’s every move. If it helps someone to worship God with hands raise, it is petty of any of us to interfere with that. It’s sad how we manage to find all these ways to be stumbling blocks for each other.

Kendy
 
Well, It’s not my cup of tea, but as long as they include key components of the mass, it’s not sinful.

Kendy
dumspirospero said:
Sorry Anne…I do not follow…if those elements you described are not found in your “traditional parish”…check and make sure it is a Catholic Parish…I have found all of those things and more at the Novus Ordo parish I attend and the more traditional parish I attend…it is a far cry from the Bon Jovi concerts…people having seizures and convulsions…and people waving their arms around like what is found in some Charismatic circles around here. If you call that reverent and edifying to God…that is your perogative…but let me do a comparison really quick.

I will choose this:
http://www.pittsburghlatinmass.org/sblm/images/cathedral/procession1.jpg

over this any day:
http://www.dioceseofnashville.com/images/article-charismatic restingsmall.jpg

Just incase you don’t believe this is a Catholic Church, here is the link:
dioceseofnashville.com/article-charismaticconfcelebrates.htm

Once again…I will choose this:
http://photos1.blogger.com/blogger/5311/1228/1600/Mass.jpg

Over this…any day:
http://www.orlandocharismatic.net/images/charis_conf_2005_020.jpg
or this
http://www.orlandocharismatic.net/images/exuberant_charismatic_praise.jpg
orlandocharismatic.net/images/exuberant_charismatic_praise.jpg

This is sickening if you ask me…and a blatant attack against the Sacred Liturgy…excuse me, I am going to throw up now.
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I know that I’m jumping in late but I do want to know if these pictures are from a Mass or a prayer meeting.

I’ve been to Charismatic prayer meetings where there are people slain in the Spirit, speaking in tongues, etc. The protocal is a lot looser than at a Mass.

I’ve also been to Mass where AFTER the Mass those who desire to be prayed over gather towards the front of the church and each is prayed over by the priest. The Mass itself was very moving in a deeply spiritual, peaceful and respectful sense. There was no dancing, no chaos, etc. There was nothing added or subtracted from the Mass. In fact, the beauty of the Mass seemed to be enhanced by the Spirit of the Lord.

I’ve never been to a Charismatic Mass where liberties were taken.

Just an observer’s viewpoint …
 
excuse me dumspirospero but I noticed NEITHER of those pictures were from Mass, they were from a “prayer conference”.
 
Kendy said:
We should allow liberties to the extent that it is reverent and not disrupting. Someone laying prostrate at Mass does more to draw attention to themselves and may be disruptive, But fingering a rosary, or raising your hands does little to disturb other people while it allows the individual to express their personal piety.

There are ways to keep mass resonably orderly while not micromanaging everyone’s every move. If it helps someone to worship God with hands raise, it is petty of any of us to interfere with that. It’s sad how we manage to find all these ways to be stumbling blocks for each other.

Kendy
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The Vatican wants unity. You are pushing individualism.
If you think it’s petty, how about taking it up with Cardinal Arinze?
 
colliric said:
excuse me dumspirospero but I noticed NEITHER of those pictures were from Mass, they were from a “prayer conference”.
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I do see that with the Blessed Sacrament exposed everyone is sitting on their dupas. Not a kneeler in the group. 😦
 
Kendy said:
Well, It’s not my cup of tea, but as long as they include key components of the mass, it’s not sinful.

Kendy
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Just key components —:eek: --------. Kendy -----when did you loose your sense of the sacred.
 
Walking_Home said:
Just key components —:eek: --------. Kendy -----when did you loose your sense of the sacred.
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I have not lost my sense of the sacred. I simply don’t want to make more of things that don’t deserve to be made more of. My family is from Haiti and I live in a African-American neighborhood, and I go to a mass where we have gregorian chanting in Latin, but for most black catholics (Haitian or African-American), that’s not sacred music, it’s European music, and they prefer more lively musical styles, with clappings, and swinging. People say “Amen” during the homily like in a baptist church. Well, it’s not the type mass, I enjoy, but it’s important to have that hand-waving, clapping, and gospel music in that neighborhood. Just because you don’t recognize its value does not mean it is not reverent. Likewise, I don’t really care for the charismatic prayer group in my parish, but it’s important that those people have it.

Kendy
 
Kendy said:
I have not lost my sense of the sacred. I simply don’t want to make more of things that don’t deserve to be made more of. My family is from Haiti and I live in a African-American neighborhood, and I go to a mass where we have gregorian chanting in Latin, but for most black catholics (Haitian or African-American), that’s not sacred music, it’s European music, and they prefer more lively musical styles, with clappings, and swinging. People say “Amen” during the homily like in a baptist church. Well, it’s not the type mass, I enjoy, but it’s important to have that hand-waving, clapping, and gospel music in that neighborhood. Just because you don’t recognize its value does not mean it is not reverent. Likewise, I don’t really care for the charismatic prayer group in my parish, but it’s important that those people have it.

Kendy
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and when does it become important to give the rest of us what we need or want?
 
Karin said:
and when does it become important to give the rest of us what we need or want?
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The rest of who? I don’t know about where you live, but there are lots of mass options where I am. You can go to a black catholic church with Afro-American style worship, Trinidine Mass, regular new mass, regular mass with gregorian chant, Hispanic mass. And all of this is within a 15 minute drive.
 
Kendy said:
The rest of who? I don’t know about where you live, but there are lots of mass options where I am. You can go to a black catholic church with Afro-American style worship, Trinidine Mass, regular new mass, regular mass with gregorian chant, Hispanic mass. And all of this is within a 15 minute drive.
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man I am moving where you are…
it has taken me 5 years to find an orthodox parish with no abuses and it is an hour away…
 
This is way off topic…and I promise I am not trying to sound inflamatory, racists, or anything…I just want an explanation…I keep seeing “African-American” typed all over the place…and the other day I read something Mickey Rooney said, and it made a lot of sense…the people we keep labeling “African American”…how many of them are actually from Africa? I mean…I am of German and Scotch-Irish descent…but I don’t refer to myself as a German-Scotch-Irish American…or I can even take it a step further…Africa is a continent…so I could even call myself a European American which would be accurate according to the way we label black people in this country. Aren’t they just american like the rest of us…IMHO, calling them African American is very devisive…but I could be wrong…sorry, I will get off of my soap box now, and please return to the OP’s original topic.
Kendy said:
The rest of who? I don’t know about where you live, but there are lots of mass options where I am. You can go to a black catholic church with Afro-American style worship, Trinidine Mass, regular new mass, regular mass with gregorian chant, Hispanic mass. And all of this is within a 15 minute drive.
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Karin said:
man I am moving where you are…
it has taken me 5 years to find an orthodox parish with no abuses and it is an hour away…
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I used to do that drive all over creation looking for the perfect mass, but I realize that there’s no such thing. Perfect for me is imperfect for someone else. What matters is that I worship God, and be present in my faith community.
 
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