Catholic Charismatic Renewal, an effective response to Charismatic Evanglicals?

[netmilsmom]

I am catholic. I don’t want to be anything other than catholic for many, many reasons that are much more important than these rules. I am a little disappointed that people have time bto make rules like that, but I am not going to leave the bride of christ over something this silly.

Rules are difficult.
They are really difficult when you don’t understand why they are there.
I would suggest that you educate yourself and understand that although you can’t see why, the bigger picture is that you won’t bend either.

There is a maturity level to our worship. The humility of Christ is just as important and the praise and worship. Some of our worship is painful. Kneeling can be painful, making a sign of a cross in public can be painful, but Christ hung on the the cross, pierced and bleeding, broken and beaten. We are charged to listen to the legacy he left. “On this rock…” means they know what they are doing and we are to listen.

While you are getting a great satisfaction in praising Our Lord your way, perhaps Our Lord has brought you here because He wants you to understand that this form of worship is not what He wants.

Will you submit?
Will you truly love and respect the Bride of Christ?

Because if you dig you heels in, are you truly living the sacrafice of Our Holy Lord?

He has given you a task. To obey his word. His word through his Rock is to follow the rules of the Holy Mass.

Will you?

 

[Karin]

Little communicates to me. You have done nothing quote the same lines for three days. This conversation is at a dead end.

actually Kendy…this just proves that you dont read…or is it that you are not comprehending what you read??

 

[Karin]

Rules are difficult.
They are really difficult when you don’t understand why they are there.
I would suggest that you educate yourself and understand that although you can’t see why, the bigger picture is that you won’t bend either.

There is a maturity level to our worship. The humility of Christ is just as important and the praise and worship. Some of our worship is painful. Kneeling can be painful, making a sign of a cross in public can be painful, but Christ hung on the the cross, pierced and bleeding, broken and beaten. We are charged to listen to the legacy he left. “On this rock…” means they know what they are doing and we are to listen.

While you are getting a great satisfaction in praising Our Lord your way, perhaps Our Lord has brought you here because He wants you to understand that this form of worship is not what He wants.

Will you submit?
Will you truly love and respect the Bride of Christ?

Because if you dig you heels in, are you truly living the sacrafice of Our Holy Lord?

He has given you a task. To obey his word. His word through his Rock is to follow the rules of the Holy Mass.

Will you?

What an awesome post…
I suggest the book MY CATHOLIC FAITH really explains everything…and it even has some nifty pics.too

 

[Kendy]

Rules are difficult.
They are really difficult when you don’t understand why they are there.
I would suggest that you educate yourself and understand that although you can’t see why, the bigger picture is that you won’t bend either.

There is a maturity level to our worship. The humility of Christ is just as important and the praise and worship. Some of our worship is painful. Kneeling can be painful, making a sign of a cross in public can be painful, but Christ hung on the the cross, pierced and bleeding, broken and beaten. We are charged to listen to the legacy he left. “On this rock…” means they know what they are doing and we are to listen.

While you are getting a great satisfaction in praising Our Lord your way, perhaps Our Lord has brought you here because He wants you to understand that this form of worship is not what He wants.

Will you submit?
Will you truly love and respect the Bride of Christ?

Because if you dig you heels in, are you truly living the sacrafice of Our Holy Lord?

He has given you a task. To obey his word. His word through his Rock is to follow the rules of the Holy Mass.

Will you?

I like I said before I don’t really like to hold hands or raise them up. I attend a relatively tame mass with gregorian chanting so chances that someone is going to grab my hand is slim. However, I am pretty persuaded that these are the rules of men instead of the word of God. I can’t think of a single passage in scripture where God is petty. I can’t think of anytime in my relationship with God where he has ever asked me to do something silly. THIS IS PETTY! But I guess, when you marry God, you get his crazy family. Occasionally, you just have to ignore the in-laws.

Perhaps, you can answer what I think is the only relevant question. What does this have to do with loving God and neighbor?

Kendy

PS. While I don’t want to be anything other than catholic, I have a really hard time trying to get my evangelical friends to get on board. I am embarrased by my priests boring homilies. I am embarassed by all the people who ignore all the important rules. I am embarassed by all the people who are obsessed with all the petty rules.

 

[Karin]

I am embarassed by all the people who ignore all the important rules. I am embarassed by all the people who are obsessed with all the petty rules.

Rules be they major or minor are there for a reason…and we need to follow all of them…not pick and choose what to follow or not follow!

 

[netmilsmom]

Perhaps, you can answer what I think is the only relevant question. What does this have to do with loving God and neighbor?

Loving God comes with obedience to God.
If the Vatican said that I should get up every morning and do twenty jumping jacks, I better be doing them.

I wouldn’t like it, I would wonder why but if one truly believes that Christ built this church, then we need to be obedient.

Mother Angelica detested the idea of Altar Girls. She spoke against them all the time. Once the ruling came down that they were allowed, she said now is the time to be obedient. And she never spoke against them again.

Will you do the same with the rules of the Holy Mass? It’s hard, I don’t get some of the rules either, but we must be obedient and we must not speak against them.

 

[Kendy]

Loving God comes with obedience to God.
If the Vatican said that I should get up every morning and do twenty jumping jacks, I better be doing them.
Will you do the same with the rules of the Holy Mass? It’s hard, I don’t get some of the rules either, but we must be obedient and we must not speak against them.

Yes, loving God does come through obedience. Once again, I see everyone is interested in persuading to obey the rules rather than explaining why the rules exist. I hear that rules are there for reason, but I have yet to hear a good reason other than the cardinal finds it disruptive. Let me be more concrete, how does what we do with our hands express our love and devotion to the Lord?

As for your example, while I agree with you that we all have to obey rules that we don’t agree with that is not my concern. My concern is about the abuse of power. And your example illustrates my point perfectly. If the Vatican says you need to be doing jump and jacks, the vatican is abusing its authority. God does not give anyone authority so that they can weild it for the own amusement, but for the service of others. However, there is a temptation for those who have authority to start thinking, I can ask whatever I want. Asking the laity to do jump and jacks is an inappropriate use of the church’s authority, and it should absolutely be resisted.

If it is not resisted, others will look at the church and see not lovers of Christ, but robots of the vatican. This time of arrogance has caused problems in the church before. When I read about the great schism and the reformation, I definitely get the sense that the church had become arrogant and abused its power. In both cases, it was tragic. Of course, neither of these were exclusively ther church’s fault, but she certainly contributed by saying. “I am the boss. Do what I say.”

Kendy

 

[Kendy]

Rules be they major or minor are there for a reason…and we need to follow all of them…not pick and choose what to follow or not follow!

What is that reason? I would say that rules are there to promote charity, peace, nad justice. And assuming they are church rules, they are there to facilitate us in our path to holiness. If the rules don’t do any of these, they are unncessary.

Kendy

 

[Kendy]

Rules are difficult.
They are really difficult when you don’t understand why they are there.
I would suggest that you educate yourself and understand that although you can’t see why, the bigger picture is that you won’t bend either.

There is a maturity level to our worship. The humility of Christ is just as important and the praise and worship. Some of our worship is painful. Kneeling can be painful, making a sign of a cross in public can be painful, but Christ hung on the the cross, pierced and bleeding, broken and beaten. We are charged to listen to the legacy he left. “On this rock…” means they know what they are doing and we are to listen.

While you are getting a great satisfaction in praising Our Lord your way, perhaps Our Lord has brought you here because He wants you to understand that this form of worship is not what He wants.

Will you submit?
Will you truly love and respect the Bride of Christ?

Because if you dig you heels in, are you truly living the sacrafice of Our Holy Lord?

He has given you a task. To obey his word. His word through his Rock is to follow the rules of the Holy Mass.

Will you?

I want to add that scripture has a lot to say about how we should worship. We are called to worship God in spirit and truth, with humble and contrite heart. There is a lot more attention in the scriptures to the disposition of your heart than your bodily posture. Because, well, as the bible says, “man looks on the outer apperance, but God judges the heart.”

I am also a little disappointed by how little scripture is every quoted on this forum. You can’t get through two posts without someone pulling out the GIRM or Catechism, nevermind that it’s often not directly related to what you are saying. But it is a rare thing for someone to actually look to the bible for answers. I also find this disturbing. Instead of sola scriptura, we have sola catechisma around here.

Instead of pulling out rules and waving them at people, perhaps, we could spend a bit more time mediating on the scriptures. In fact, I have neglected to do my morning meditation on the psalms due to my addiction to arguing, and I need to go do that.

Kendy

 

[Karin]

What is that reason? I would say that rules are there to promote charity, peace, nad justice. And assuming they are church rules, they are there to facilitate us in our path to holiness. If the rules don’t do any of these, they are unncessary.

Kendy

Once again Kendy…if **YOU **feel the rules are unneeded than by all means you know who to contact!
Also once again…As a Catholic you can not pick and choose what rules to follow:thumbsup:

 

[Karin]

netmil(name removed by moderator)…
it does not look like your going to get an answer to your question(s)…you will just be told that the rules are stupid and silly and a waste of time…

 

[netmilsmom]

I want to add that scripture has a lot to say about how we should worship. We are called to worship God in spirit and truth, with humble and contrite heart. There is a lot more attention in the scriptures to the disposition of your heart than your bodily posture. Because, well, as the bible says, “man looks on the outer apperance, but God judges the heart.”

I am also a little disappointed by how little scripture is every quoted on this forum. You can’t get through two posts without someone pulling out the GIRM or Catechism, nevermind that it’s often not directly related to what you are saying. But it is a rare thing for someone to actually look to the bible for answers. I also find this disturbing. Instead of sola scriptura, we have sola catechisma around here.

Instead of pulling out rules and waving them at people, perhaps, we could spend a bit more time mediating on the scriptures. In fact, I have neglected to do my morning meditation on the psalms due to my addiction to arguing, and I need to go do that.

Kendy

If you are Catholic, you should not be interperting scripture. That is Protestant. We let the Vatican guide us. Bible and tradition. We read the Bible and pray but if our own interperation overrides the teachings of the Vatican, it is not the right direction.

Are you sure your church is Catholic?

 

[netmilsmom]

I would say that rules are there to promote charity, peace, nad justice. And assuming they are church rules, they are there to facilitate us in our path to holiness. If the rules don’t do any of these, they are unncessary.

Kendy

I’m truly not saying this as sarcasm.
Who are you?

No matter what you feel it doesn’t overcome that the church has rules.

I feel that telling someone who has five children and a husband who is seriously in need of mental help that she can’t use BC is unreasonable, but who am I? Do I know that she shouldn’t use BC, of course.
There are reasons you may not be privy to. To think that you are IS unreasonable.

 

[Karin]

I have said that outside of the Catholic Church there can be no divine faith. What is divine faith? When we believe a thing upon the authority of God, and believe it without doubt, without hesitating. Now, all our separated brethren outside of the* Catholic Church take the private interpretation of the Bible for their guide, but the private interpretation of the Bible can never give them divine faith**.* …SNIP
The Catholic has divine faith, and why? Because the Catholic says, “I believe in such and such a thing.” Why? “Because the Church teaches me so.” And why do you believe the Church? "Because God has commanded me to believe the teaching of the Church. And God has threatened me with damnation, if I do not believe the Church. And we are taught by St. Peter, in his epistle, "No prophecy of Scripture is made by private interpretation … for the unlearned and unstable wrest … Scriptures … to their own descruction**." …**

drbo.org/church2.htm

 

[Karin]

One cannot have God for his Father, who will not have the Church for his Mother, and likewise, one cannot have the Word of God for his faith who will not have the Church for his teacher. It is the infallible teaching authority of the Church, as promised by Christ, which alone preserves God’s Word from erroneous interpretation
drbo.org/church.htm

 

[Kendy]

If you are Catholic, you should not be interperting scripture. That is Protestant. We let the Vatican guide us. Bible and tradition. We read the Bible and pray but if our own interperation overrides the teachings of the Vatican, it is not the right direction.

Are you sure your church is Catholic?

Catholics should not be interpreting scripture? Where did you get that idea? And yes, I have read verbum dei. What teaching of the church does my interpretation over ride. There’s a huge difference between the infallible teachings of the church and a little rule about hand holding. 100 years from now, there may or may not be a rule about the Eucharist, but the teachings of the church on the eucharist is eternal.

 

[Kendy]

I’m truly not saying this as sarcasm.
Who are you?

No matter what you feel it doesn’t overcome that the church has rules.

I feel that telling someone who has five children and a husband who is seriously in need of mental help that she can’t use BC is unreasonable, but who am I? Do I know that she shouldn’t use BC, of course.
There are reasons you may not be privy to. To think that you are IS unreasonable.

I don’t understand your example. However, I will tell you who I am. I am prayerful woman. I am an active partcipant in my parish. I am a person who tries to walk in love. I am a baptized member of the church, a daughter of the Lord. I am someone who takes my confirmation vows very seriously. I am nobody’s robot, and will not be treated like one.

 

[Kendy]

I have said that outside of the Catholic Church there can be no divine faith. What is divine faith? When we believe a thing upon the authority of God, and believe it without doubt, without hesitating. Now, all our separated brethren outside of the* Catholic Church take the private interpretation of the Bible for their guide, but the private interpretation of the Bible can never give them divine faith***. …SNIP
The Catholic has divine faith, and why? Because the Catholic says, “I believe in such and such a thing.” Why? “Because the Church teaches me so.” And why do you believe the Church? "Because God has commanded me to believe the teaching of the Church. And God has threatened me with damnation, if I do not believe the Church. And we are taught by St. Peter, in his epistle, "No prophecy of Scripture is made by private interpretation … for the unlearned and unstable wrest … Scriptures … to their own descruction**." …**

drbo.org/church2.htm

Show me where I have misinterpreted scripture. I have only pointed out the disturbing trend of this forum that everyone quotes from everything but scripture.

I don’t believe in sola scriptura, but I do believing in using scripture.

Kendy

 

[Kendy]

One cannot have God for his Father, who will not have the Church for his Mother, and likewise, one cannot have the Word of God for his faith who will not have the Church for his teacher. It is the infallible teaching authority of the Church, as promised by Christ, which alone preserves God’s Word from erroneous interpretation
drbo.org/church.htm

First of all, can you write a whole paragraph using your own words?

Second, I am not trying to exclude my mother out of the picture. But just like there are times when I have had to say to my Earthly mother, “sorry, but I just can’t do that.” I may have to say to my spiritual mother, “no.” I try to make this a rare occurence, but occasionally, it’s going to happen, especially, if my mother becomes rule happy. This does not mean I have abandonned my mother. Even if the church were serious about excommunicating dissenters, no one is going to excommunicate me because I think preventing peple from holding hands during mass is silly. I have not sinned against any church doctrine. And if you think I am no longer catholic because I happen to believe that telling people what to do with their hands is silly, then you are silly. . That would be like my mother throwing me out of the house because I refuse to make my bed. It might be annoying to her, but no good mother casts her children out over such things.

 

[Kendy]

Ok, let’s try this again: How does what we do with our hands reflect our love for God and neighbor?