Catholic Charismatic Renewal

[Terry_from_Ypsi]

I wish there were a catholic charismatic church near me. I would love the chance to go there.

hope

I do not know where you live, but

Christ the King Catholic Church
Diocease of Lansing Michigan
Ann Arbor, Mich
(734)665-5040
rc.net/lansing/ctk/

“We the people of Christ the King, called by God our Father to be surrendered to the Lord Jesus, in the power of His Holy Spirit, in the heart of His Church, dedicate ourselves to His mission for our charismatic Parish”

I myself experienced a deepening of my relationship with God
and deeper life as a Roman Catholic through my involvement in the Catholic Charismatic Renewal. The late Cardenal Suenens
was a tremendous Charismatic Catholic as is the preacher to the Papal Household.

Evn Pope Benedict speaks positively about Roman Catholics being “baptized in the Holy Spirit.”

Regards,

 

[The_Theotokos]

Evn Pope Benedict speaks positively about Roman Catholics being “baptized in the Holy Spirit.”

And he has also mentioned that much caution should be exercised.

 

[vz71]

If that is the question, the answer is that you haven’t rec’d the gift of interpretation of tongues for whatever instance you’ve heard tongues spoken.

And we are to believe that this ‘gift’ was given out to the unwilling and/or ignorant on the day of pentecost?

Just as the gift of tongues is given by the Lord to whom He wishes when He wishes, the gift of interpretation is given by the Lord to whom and when He wishes, although certainly not forced on anyone. On Pentecost, a lot of people rec’d the gift of interpretation of tongues, although some apparently couldn’t understand, ascribing what they heard to them having had too much new wine.

Sorry. I don’t buy that.
The circumstances described do not fit what I have been told by various others in the charismatic movement.
Besides that, there is no way these people could have had their say in whether or not to receive the charism of which you speak.
Else they would have understood what was happening.
So on the one hand you are saying that God will not force the gift upon anyone, but on the other, this gift was forced upon these people.

I think it’s obvious that the gift of tongues is cited and/or can be derived from scripture. And I don’t think charismatics “always resort to scripture as their explanation”.

So show us, in compliance with the Catholic understanding of the scripture, such derivation.

Be that as it may, it’s obvious we are not going to agree and we don’t seem to be understanding each other’s points fully.

I am not seeking agreement. Just a fuller understanding.
It seems to me there are specific holes in the theology that the Charismatic Movement follows that have not been filled to my own satisfaction. Else I would be in it.

There’s no point in me coming back to this thread. I apologize for all the charismatic people who have offended you – and the others here – by seeming to talk down to you or imply that your faith is inferior.

Sorry to see you leave.
I take no offence with various members of the movement talking down to my faith. I understand well that they really do not know what they are saying.
Faith is a very personnal thing, and it is simply not possible for any other human to be able to gauge the faith of another with any degree of accuracy.
When I hear someone speaking of the movement in a way that implies that my faith is not enough, or that it is inferior, I know it is wrong, and usually will call them to task for it. Most that make the error do not seem capable of explaining the Charismatic theology at all.

I don’t think they meant it that way and if they did, they were wrong. It’s usually a case of people trying to share something wonderful they’ve come upon and being too aggressive in their salesmanship.

Salesmanship?
Faith need no salesman. Just the truth of testimony.

I can’t deny that the renewal has brought me into a deeper relationship with Jesus, a much, much greater appreciation of the Eucharist and the mass, a deeper understanding of Scripture and a love for Mary and the Rosary. The renewal is not the only means of reaching those goals, but they worked for me.

And that is why I have not discounted the movement.
I cannot see an evil movement drawing someone closer to God.
And I cannot deny many in the Charismatic movement do appear to be drawn into a deeper faith.

 

[The_Theotokos]

And that is why I have not discounted the movement.
I cannot see an evil movement drawing someone closer to God.
And I cannot deny many in the Charismatic movement do appear to be drawn into a deeper faith.

Just another thought for you.

If you were Satan, would you care if you lost a few souls to God (as a byproduct of your actions) if your overall plan condemned millions?

Just like popular views of the antichrist, if the Movement were to be obviously evil, it wouldn’t work.

 

[The_Theotokos]

This discussion has provoked a great deal of research on my end regarding the pros and cons of the Charismatic Renewal Movement. In my searching I found this interesting break down. While not from a Catholic source, I find his argument interesting.

Read it here: scionofzion.com/18dangers.htm

I particularly enjoyed his “their music mimics the world” section.

 

[narrowpath]

Wasn’t it the understanding of the Fathers and the Church that the “gifts of the Holy Spirit” disappeared after the very early Church? Why then, would they come back now? Does the Bible or the Church say anything about another general outpouring of the Spirit? I seem to remember something in the Scriptures about that, but I can’t remember right now…

 

[Terry_from_Ypsi]

Here are some statements from several Popes:

Pope Paul VI: Speaking to the International Conference on the Catholic Charismatic Renewal on May 19, 1975, encouraged the attendees in their renewal efforts and especially to remain anchored in the Church.1975 marks the year of the Renewal’s “coming of age” in the Catholic Church. Thanks to Veronica O’Brian’s urging of cardinal Suenens and the cardinal’s convincing recommendation to Pope Paul VI, the Renewal was invited to have its World Congress at Rome on Pentecost during the Holy Year. **Pope Paul VI told to the group of 10,000 Charismatics: “Nothing is more necessary to this more and more secularized world than the witness of the ‘spiritual renewal’ that we see the Holy Spirit evoking in the most diverse regions and milieu… How then could this ‘spiritual renewal’ not be a ‘chance’ for the Church and for the world? And how, in this case, could one not take all the means to insure that it remains so?”.
** Pope John Paul II, for his part, was also explicit. Speaking to a group of international leaders of the Renewal on December 11, 1979, he said, I am convinced that this movement is a very important component of the entire renewal of the Church… “Remain in an attitude of constant and grateful availability for every gift that the Spirit wishes to pour into your hearts”

Pope Benedict XVI when he was Cardinal, At the heart of a world imbued with a rationalistic skepticism, a new experience of the Holy Spirit suddenly burst forth. And, since then, that experience has assumed a breadth of a worldwide Renewal movement. What the New Testament tells us about the Charisms - which were seen as visible signs of the coming of the Spirit - is not just ancient history, over and done with, for it is once again becoming extremely topical.

David Mangan was among the participants on the retreat in
February of 1967 where events took place that are often marked as the beginning of the Catholic Charismatic Renewal. David is a graduate of Duquesne University and holds a master’s degree
in education, and he is a commissioned Ecclesial Lay Minister of the Diocese of Lansing, Mich.

Among the instructors at Sacred Heart Semionary in Detroit Michigan who are or have been involved in the Charismatic Renewal:

Mr. Ralph Martin, Assistant Professor of Theology
Director Graduate Theology Programs in the New Evangelization

Dr. Peter Williamson, Adam Cardinal Maida Chair in Sacred Scripture

Dr. Danial Keating Assistant Professor of Theology

Fr. Daniel Jones Assistant Professor of Theology

Some books about the Catholic Charismatic Renewal:
**
Charismatic Spiritualityby Stephen Clark,

*The Sober Intoxication of the Spirit *by Fr. Raniero Cantilamessa

Open the Windows: The Popes and Charismatic Renewal by Kilian McDonnell

Catholic Pentecostals by Kevin Ranaghan

Christian Initiation and Baptism in the Holy Spirit: Evidence from the First Eight Centuries by Kilian McDonnell, George T. Montague

Call to Holiness: Reflections on the Catholic Charismatic Renewal
Archbishop Paul Josef Cordes was Vice-President of the Pontifical Council for the Laity form 1981-1996. For ten years he was, at the appointment of Pope John Paul II, the Episcopal Advisor to the International Catholic Charismatic Renewal Office in Rome. At present he is President of the Pontifical Council Cor Unum
Includes a forward by Father Raniero Cantalamessa

From our parish Chrisdt the King Catholic Church, besides our Pastor Fr. Ed Friede, the following priests in the dioceases of Lansing, Saginaw and Arch Diocease of Detroit have roots in the Charismatic Renewal:

Fr. Bob LaCroix
Fr. Jack Quinlain
Fr. Peter Clark
Fr. William W. Spencer
Fr. Prentice A. Tipton Jr

Currently there are 22 seminarians from Christ the King Catholic Church. If you are skeptical of the Catholic Charismatic Renewal then let this be proof positive that God is indeed in it and it is for “ALL Roman Catholics”, not a select few.

Just ask Bishop Robert Carlson the Bishop of Saginaw and see what he thinks about the Catholic Charismatic Renewal.

Regards,

 

[Jerry_Marino]

Based on what I have experienced personally as well as dialogues with some Catholic Charismatics, my overall impression was positive.

Based on what I have read on this thread, my overall impression is negative.

I wonder why that is?

your mind is divided ask God for wisdom on the matter but you have to be firm on your belief, James 1:5

 

[BSHoop96]

Here are some statements from several Popes:

Pope Paul VI: Speaking to the International Conference on the Catholic Charismatic Renewal on May 19, 1975, encouraged the attendees in their renewal efforts and especially to remain anchored in the Church.1975 marks the year of the Renewal’s “coming of age” in the Catholic Church. Thanks to Veronica O’Brian’s urging of cardinal Suenens and the cardinal’s convincing recommendation to Pope Paul VI, the Renewal was invited to have its World Congress at Rome on Pentecost during the Holy Year. **Pope Paul VI told to the group of 10,000 Charismatics: “Nothing is more necessary to this more and more secularized world than the witness of the ‘spiritual renewal’ that we see the Holy Spirit evoking in the most diverse regions and milieu… How then could this ‘spiritual renewal’ not be a ‘chance’ for the Church and for the world? And how, in this case, could one not take all the means to insure that it remains so?”.
** Pope John Paul II, for his part, was also explicit. Speaking to a group of international leaders of the Renewal on December 11, 1979, he said, I am convinced that this movement is a very important component of the entire renewal of the Church… “Remain in an attitude of constant and grateful availability for every gift that the Spirit wishes to pour into your hearts”

Pope Benedict XVI when he was Cardinal, At the heart of a world imbued with a rationalistic skepticism, a new experience of the Holy Spirit suddenly burst forth. And, since then, that experience has assumed a breadth of a worldwide Renewal movement. What the New Testament tells us about the Charisms - which were seen as visible signs of the coming of the Spirit - is not just ancient history, over and done with, for it is once again becoming extremely topical.

Since many people may have joined us somewhere other than the beginning of this thread I will repeat what some of us have said on here.

The thought is that perhaps what the Holy See refers to as the Charismatic Movement is not the same as what many Charismatics might see it as, most especially actions that draw attention to themselves which have already been pointed out.

Vatican II is the perfect example of something the Church approved and then people took it and ran rampant with it. Hence, the differences, inconsistencies, and downright errors being done. Thankfully that seems to be on the path to being corrected.

 

[justinus]

If someone is pleased to pray for catholic charismatic removal, let him/her do it.But if we come to our basic catholic faith i.e. Holy Scripture, Holy Tradition, and Magisterium, Catholic Charismatic Renewal is not based on holy tradition.Almost all of us it derives from Protestant circle. As the church is scared of many catholic believers migrate to other churches, Vatican approved Cactholic Renewal to be practiced among the catholic believers. If we want to return to Holy Tradition, many of us do not see"meditation" such as “Lectio Divina” as holy tradition. I see this wonderful way is not much practiced among the catholic believers. This tradition is directed how to pray with heart, not with mouth, tongue or thought. Lectio Divina which comprises systems of lectio, meditatio, oratio and contemplatio were long practiced by desert fathers like St. Benedictine. Among the fourth system, the highest is contemplatio. It is a contemplative prayer. Many people do not like to pray in silence, in still way. They prefer to pray in enthusiastic way nor in silence. The voice of God is very soft, it can be heard only in silent way, not through noise way. Sorry, it is own share.

 

[BSHoop96]

If someone is pleased to pray for catholic charismatic removal, let him/her do it.But if we come to our basic catholic faith i.e. Holy Scripture, Holy Tradition, and Magisterium, Catholic Charismatic Renewal is not based on holy tradition.Almost all of us it derives from Protestant circle. As the church is scared of many catholic believers migrate to other churches, Vatican approved Cactholic Renewal to be practiced among the catholic believers. If we want to return to Holy Tradition, many of us do not see"meditation" such as “Lectio Divina” as holy tradition. I see this wonderful way is not much practiced among the catholic believers. This tradition is directed how to pray with heart, not with mouth, tongue or thought. Lectio Divina which comprises systems of lectio, meditatio, oratio and contemplatio were long practiced by desert fathers like St. Benedictine. Among the fourth system, the highest is contemplatio. It is a contemplative prayer. Many people do not like to pray in silence, in still way. They prefer to pray in enthusiastic way nor in silence. The voice of God is very soft, it can be heard only in silent way, not through noise way. Sorry, it is own share.

I’m pleased to say we were just talking about this in our RCIA classes.

 

[The_Theotokos]

Another interesting source speaks out against the Charismatic Renewal Movement, this one Catholic in nature, albeit, ultraconservative.

tldm.org/News8/CharismaticMovement.htm

 

[juliamajor]

Too bad most people here seem to think that Charismatics do only one form of praying and one kind of spirituality. maybe it’s just the Charismatics I know but we are all involved in so called “traditional spirituality”.My husband (Charismatic also) organized Eucharistic Adoration, another one taught “lectio Divino”, we have Cenacles,we do novenas, and we do Stations of the cross, we run Bible studies. One dimensional - maybe some,but stop painting with a broad brush is not useful- nor is it very Christian…

 

[The_Theotokos]

Too bad most people here seem to think that Charismatics do only one form of praying and one kind of spirituality. maybe it’s just the Charismatics I know but we are all involved in so called “traditional spirituality”.My husband (Charismatic also) organized Eucharistic Adoration, another one taught “lectio Divino”, we have Cenacles,we do novenas, and we do Stations of the cross, we run Bible studies. One dimensional - maybe some,but stop painting with a broad brush is not useful- nor is it very Christian…

I am sorry that we have come across that way, but we do in fact know that you participate in other forms of worship.

We are not at all attacking “Charismatics”; we are questioning the authenticity of the Charismatic Renewal Movement as a philosophy within Catholicism. We are troubled by its dubious motives and we are concerned over what long-term affects this Movement will have on our Church.

 

[vz71]

Just like popular views of the antichrist, if the Movement were to be obviously evil, it wouldn’t work.

Wouldn’t be too certain of that.
I have seen movements I consider to be evil that prosper.

 

[cazayoux]

Too bad most people here seem to think that Charismatics do only one form of praying and one kind of spirituality. maybe it’s just the Charismatics I know but we are all involved in so called “traditional spirituality”.My husband (Charismatic also) organized Eucharistic Adoration, another one taught “lectio Divino”, we have Cenacles,we do novenas, and we do Stations of the cross, we run Bible studies. One dimensional - maybe some,but stop painting with a broad brush is not useful- nor is it very Christian…

I have been a part of all of these things that you list and it has made all the difference. It shows how diverse our spirituality can be.
The fact that you consider these things only ‘traditional spirituality’ shows how you look down upon them.

It’s like you are saying …
“yeah we did all those traditional things and it wasn’t enough”

My faith is deep, my devotional practices are varied.
Don’t see me as myopic.
I am called by scripture to question all things.

I question people showing up to a gathering to speak in tongues together.
I see these people as lacking faith. It’s like they are manufacturing proof that the Holy Spirit is with them.
Faith is believing without proof.
I don’t need the proof, I have faith.

michel

 

[aloneinjax]

I have been a part of all of these things that you list and it has made all the difference. It shows how diverse our spirituality can be.
The fact that you consider these things only ‘traditional spirituality’ shows how you look down upon them.

It’s like you are saying …
“yeah we did all those traditional things and it wasn’t enough”

My faith is deep, my devotional practices are varied.
Don’t see me as myopic.
I am called by scripture to question all things.

I question people showing up to a gathering to speak in tongues together.
I see these people as lacking faith. It’s like they are manufacturing proof that the Holy Spirit is with them.
Faith is believing without proof.
I don’t need the proof, I have faith.

michel

Amen! Well said!

 

[The_Theotokos]

Wouldn’t be too certain of that.
I have seen movements I consider to be evil that prosper.

I see you point here. Perhaps Satan assesses the personalities he will deal with and then goes from there. If he can get away with obvious evil, then why not go with an obviously evil plot? LOL

 

[Jerry_Marino]

i say let’s have a Christ movement!
it is simple all you have to do is submit to Him after all He is you Lord and Savior?

 

[juliamajor]

I have been a part of all of these things that you list and it has made all the difference. It shows how diverse our spirituality can be.
The fact that you consider these things only ‘traditional spirituality’ shows how you look down upon them.

It’s like you are saying …
“yeah we did all those traditional things and it wasn’t enough”

My faith is deep, my devotional practices are varied.
Don’t see me as myopic.
I am called by scripture to question all things.

I question people showing up to a gathering to speak in tongues together.
I see these people as lacking faith. It’s like they are manufacturing proof that the Holy Spirit is with them.
Faith is believing without proof.
I don’t need the proof, I have faith.

michel

Honey stop reading things into the few words I’ve written- Traditional is the moniker that other people have applied to these spiritualities. I’m just using a term that has been bandied about on this thread.NO judgment on my part. I find your attitude incredible antagonistic and arrogant. It like your saying"My faith is perfect so are My spiritualities".Are you retrospective at all ,do you ever question if you are really as right as you believe you are? As far as gathering together to speak tongues together that’s not why we gather -we usually gather for Mass , or healing service or (horror of horrors) regular non tonguey prayer. Having never spoken in tongues myself I don’t understand why people get so crazed about folks speaking in tongues.If you want to pray the Rosary in the middle of Fifth Ave in front of Tiffany’s-why would that irritate me? I’m truly baffled why the ire? Why the hostility? What traditional devotions? Do the go all the way back to the apostles? Medieval traditional devotionals only? Or can Devotions grow into a tradition. case in point- The divine Mercy Chaplet.Modern devotion in a traditional style…So if i don’t do devotions the way you believe they should be done- or choose a less traditional devotion that means I lack faith? Are you the arbiter of who’s faith is real? Please don’t say you speak for the Church! That would be more arrogant still.