Catholic Charismatic Renewal

[The_Theotokos]

I have to ask how should we express them should we hide our lamps under the bed or show them shine them from atop the mountain with hopes of sharing Christs love.

To respectfully answer your question, I would like to believe that the Catholic Church did a fine job, ‘shining from atop the mountain’ via the establishment of monasteries, the celebration of the Mass, the operating of missionary groups, etc. They did this all before the 1960’s and they did it all without compromising the rubric or resorting to Protestant expressions of worship. In short, they maintained their own identity, because they knew (back then, at least) that they didn’t need anything more.

 

[nfabienne]

I think this is not getting anywhere my whole point is just trust God. You clearly already have a relationship with God that works for you, why should we be told how we also can worship. I am silent at mass I am reverent. i am traditional although I don’t sing out loud.
Father Randall says a normal catholic mass this is a prayer meeting that meets not during mass. By your reasoning you probably would have thrown Paul out had you been one of the apostles. Is it so hard to see God can take something bad and then use it for his glory. By The power of the Holy Spirit. And if confirmation is the only way to receive the Holy Spirit how did the apostles receive confirmation they did not have churches as we now have churches they had a daily meal celebrated in ones private home. My problem is with not trusting God and letting Him decide by the power he gave to the Popes to decide what is alright and what is not alright. When the pope says don’t let anyone lay hands on you than I will have to agree because I respect the church as Christs bride, it seems those who are against this are in fact against what ever they feel is right and wrong and they don’t want to submit to the churches authority this seems protestant to me. Do you all feel that the church is no longer with God I don’t get it. I trust the church I love Jesus and his church and the Pope.
I will pray and try to understand your feelings and thoughts more.

 

[phes3]

Dear Theotokos:

I am not going to keep trying to explain to you the power or the Holy Spirit, is not a matter to be explained just to be feel. God doesn’t need us, we are the ones who need Him. I am going to pray for you so your heart will soften and be filled by His love.May the good Lordalways!!!

 

[The_Theotokos]

I think this is not getting anywhere my whole point is just trust God. You clearly already have a relationship with God that works for you, why should we be told how we also can worship. I am silent at mass I am reverent. i am traditional although I don’t sing out loud.

I have stated before that I have no problem with people who believe in the Charismatic Movement that maintain a pure Liturgy. I take issue with public worship expressions, not private ones.

Father Randall says a normal catholic mass this is a prayer meeting that meets not during mass. By your reasoning you probably would have thrown Paul out had you been one of the apostles.

LOL No, I wouldn’t have thrown out Paul.

Is it so hard to see God can take something bad and then use it for his glory. By The power of the Holy Spirit. And if confirmation is the only way to receive the Holy Spirit how did the apostles receive confirmation they did not have churches as we now have churches they had a daily meal celebrated in ones private home.

They still had the Sacraments, albeit, more primitive forms, but the Sacraments were most certainly there, including Confirmation.

My problem is with not trusting God and letting Him decide by the power he gave to the Popes to decide what is alright and what is not alright. When the pope says don’t let anyone lay hands on you than I will have to agree because I respect the church as Christs bride, it seems those who are against this are in fact against what ever they feel is right and wrong and they don’t want to submit to the churches authority this seems protestant to me. Do you all feel that the church is no longer with God I don’t get it. I trust the church I love Jesus and his church and the Pope.

I think you might be getting a bit carried away here. Until I know precisely what the Holy Father believes when he talks about Charismatic Renewal, my jury is still out. And as I stated before, the other Patriarchs are not as willing to address the Movement.

I will pray and try to understand your feelings and thoughts more.

I promise you that I will do the same.

 

[nfabienne]

To respectfully answer your question, I would like to believe that the Catholic Church did a fine job, ‘shining from atop the mountain’ via the establishment of monasteries, the celebration of the Mass, the operating of missionary groups, etc. They did this all before the 1960’s and they did it all without compromising the rubric or resorting to Protestant expressions of worship. In short, they maintained their own identity, because they knew (back then, at least) that they didn’t need anything more.

Maybe they feel they needed to do more due to dwindling numbers in the convents and seminaries, look at the shortages my mother could attend catholic school in those days it didn’t cost a fortune they did not have to pay the nuns, now with less nuns teaching it is to expensive to send our children. It just seems to me God is calling his people and if he chooses to do so in this way why should it be condemned. I agree they were doing a great job until drugs rock and roll and freedom of sex and abortion were all thrown in the churches face. So if this movement brought back numbers how is that false we have not changed the mass nor intend to. If this movement was to counter act the falseness being propagated let it be. Is it that if these people weren’t strong enough in their faith to stay with the traditionalism than just damn them forget about them, let them be lost God cares more about the one lost sheep than the hundred that are following. Let him decide how to call his children home. God Bless

 

[The_Theotokos]

Dear Theotokos:

I am not going to keep trying to explain to you the power or the Holy Spirit, is not a matter to be explained just to be feel. God doesn’t need us, we are the ones who need Him. I am going to pray for you so your heart will soften and be filled by His love.May the good Lordalways!!!

You are presuming a great deal about me here. These sort of presumptions are precisely what has led many in the thread to lose tolerance with the Charismatic Movement. Just because I don’t buy into the Movement doesn’t mean I understand the Holy Spirit any less than you do. But of course, to believe in the Movement, as you do, you are required to believe such of me, because I don’t fit into your paradigm. Am I wrong?

 

[nfabienne]

I think I am out of my league here, like I said before I am strong in my love for God I am still learning the catechism, I just thought we are supposed to share what good God has done within our lives. I am no theologian and sorry for my ignorance. I am sorry to get carried away I think I need to step back and pray about this more like I said I was going to do before, it’s just I thought I was defending an important piece of my coming home journey. I am left to just pray pray and pray some more I feel I have no more words to try and explain my feelings about this movement. I pray we all will remain strong in our faith and respect each others journey. God Bless

 

[The_Theotokos]

Maybe they feel they needed to do more due to dwindling numbers in the convents and seminaries, look at the shortages my mother could attend catholic school in those days it didn’t cost a fortune they did not have to pay the nuns, now with less nuns teaching it is to expensive to send our children. It just seems to me God is calling his people and if he chooses to do so in this way why should it be condemned. I agree they were doing a great job until drugs rock and roll and freedom of sex and abortion were all thrown in the churches face. So if this movement brought back numbers how is that false we have not changed the mass nor intend to. If this movement was to counter act the falseness being propagated let it be. Is it that if these people weren’t strong enough in their faith to stay with the traditionalism than just damn them forget about them, let them be lost God cares more about the one lost sheep than the hundred that are following. Let him decide how to call his children home. God Bless

Well, from your past words, I would venture to guess that your experience with the Movement have been far less extreme than what I have experienced with places like Steubenville University. But I caution you to remember that it isn’t the Church’s responsibility to accommodate anyone. If a person is not attracted to traditionalism, it isn’t the Church’s responsibility to modify itself so that it becomes more enjoyable, less boring, more contemporary, or what have you. I do agree, however, that perhaps, the Church is making these decisions on the basis of falling numbers, but again, lowering the standard is only going to add to the problem, not help it. I trust in God enough to know that if the Church were to ever reach a point of collapse, due to falling vocations or no parishioners, the Parousia would occur, and the Church on this fallen earth would have completed its purpose.

 

[phes3]

Dear Theotokos:
I am not presuming anything, you have your way to worship, I am sure other catholics worship in a different way,I did both. that doesn’t make us more or less His childrens. He love us all!!. God

 

[Holly3278]

What are your thoughts on the Catholic Charismatic renewal?

I really like the Catholic Charismatic Renewal. I have been a part of it now for about a year and a half or so. I find it to be a truly Holy Spirit filled movement within the Church and it really is a nice thing to be a part of.

 

[The_Theotokos]

that doesn’t make us more or less His childrens. He love us all!!. God

You’ll get no argument from me here.

 

[nfabienne]

Article on charismatic renewal and Pope Benedict

fraternityofpriests.org/Aug05.pdf

 

[The_Theotokos]

Article on charismatic renewal and Pope Benedict

fraternityofpriests.org/Aug05.pdf

Thank you for finding this, nafabienne, but this is still too vague. It only covers a general view of the Movement, it doesn’t express anything about the problems.I would be interested to read anything about how the Pope of Rome addresses the abuses and controversies existent within the Charismatic Renewal Movement. Specifically, why the Church has adopted a movement from Pentecostalism, yet shuns all other Protestant creations. Do you perhaps know where I might find something about that?

 

[nfabienne]

Well, from your past words, I would venture to guess that your experience with the Movement have been far less extreme than what I have experienced with places like Steubenville University. But I caution you to remember that it isn’t the Church’s responsibility to accommodate anyone. If a person is not attracted to traditionalism, it isn’t the Church’s responsibility to modify itself so that it becomes more enjoyable, less boring, more contemporary, or what have you. I do agree, however, that perhaps, the Church is making these decisions on the basis of falling numbers, but again, lowering the standard is only going to add to the problem, not help it. I trust in God enough to know that if the Church were to ever reach a point of collapse, due to falling vocations or no parishioners, the Parousia would occur, and the Church on this fallen earth would have completed its purpose.

I agree and understand, I had the feeling just after I posted that I need to slow down and understand your feelings more. I am trying but I just want to share my experience also. It has been wonderful and actually I have moved and no longer attend but I know this was a part of my journey He wanted me to take. And I guess when it does get that bad within the church this will happen. And I agree the mass does not need to be exciting I think it had the effect on me of I learned to really love Jesus and in learning more and wanting to serve Him I was wanting and yearning to go to Mass to receive Him. I would never want to be entertained at Mass. I can totally agree on that. My husband sings and a christian group wants him to join and that was one of the reasons the guy gave my husband as to the mass being boring for kids and such and I was like no way he’s wrong. So yes I was within a group of traditional Catholics who just prayed in this way in a prayer meeting. I do understand there are probably groups not like this but God will cut the branches off that bear no fruit. Sorry about the Paul comment I see it was rude I was trying to make point but that wasn’t a kind way of doing so. I am usually not like that but I guess I was letting this get to personal and I am just trying my best in a situation I may not be have enough knowledge to handle. Like I said I go on my personal experience. God Bless

 

[The_Theotokos]

Sorry about the Paul comment I see it was rude I was trying to make point but that wasn’t a kind way of doing so. I am usually not like that but I guess I was letting this get to personal and I am just trying my best in a situation I may not be have enough knowledge to handle. Like I said I go on my personal experience. God Bless

No need to be sorry. It made me smile and then laugh, as I tried to contemplate me, kicking out someone like Paul. I’d don’t think it would have even been possible. LOL

 

[nfabienne]

Thank you for finding this, nafabienne, but this is still too vague. It only covers a general view of the Movement, it doesn’t express anything about the problems.I would be interested to read anything about how the Pope of Rome addresses the abuses and controversies existent within the Charismatic Renewal Movement. Specifically, why the Church has adopted a movement from Pentecostalism, yet shuns all other Protestant creations. Do you perhaps know where I might find something about that?

I’ll keep looking. I am beginning to see that we all have very valid points but I just wanted people to see that not all within this movement is bad. I just believe that God can take something that may be bad in it’s roots but he can prune it clean it nourish it and make it His for His glory. I feel He did this within my own life. I was lost and so broken when I was younger but I have felt Him doing all this within me. I guess I just want others to know this is possible. Especially those who are lost so maybe my feelings would be best shared that way. I honestly came on here to learn more as to be able to defend the faith to non-believers I hate debates or arguments even though I really feel no hate or harm here so I guess it’s not an argument, but basically I am timid and don’t usually chime in, but I saw this thread and couldn’t help but want to share my feelings. I had not intended on jumping in. But thank you I have learned a lot. God Bless:blush:

 

[The_Theotokos]

I’ll keep looking. I am beginning to see that we all have very valid points but I just wanted people to see that not all within this movement is bad. I just believe that God can take something that may be bad in it’s roots but he can prune it clean it nourish it and make it His for His glory. I feel He did this within my own life. I was lost and so broken when I was younger but I have felt Him doing all this within me. I guess I just want others to know this is possible. Especially those who are lost so maybe my feelings would be best shared that way. I honestly came on here to learn more as to be able to defend the faith to non-believers I hate debates or arguments even though I really feel no hate or harm here so I guess it’s not an argument, but basically I am timid and don’t usually chime in, but I saw this thread and couldn’t help but want to share my feelings. I had not intended on jumping in. But thank you I have learned a lot. God Bless:blush:

Thank you, as have I.

 

[nfabienne]

No need to be sorry. It made me smile and then laugh, as I tried to contemplate me, kicking out someone like Paul. I’d don’t think it would have even been possible. LOL

I think what I was trying to say I or what I meant was believing that God can take something or someone clearly wrong and change their hearts, but that then some still won’t believe. Bad example It was a moment in writing where I let myself get carried away usually when I write I really contemplate as to how the Lord would want me to respond I usually go slower and make sure I am not offending anyone or not speaking the truth or being honest in what I am saying:blush:. I definitely got carried away. Another lesson learned.

 

[vz71]

Now you are just arguing for the sake of disagreeing with me, which is really fruitless when you think about it. I posted the article because my own research has confirmed what was stated there and if you read the discussion section, you will see that the Charismatic Movement is very much involved in what is written there as well.

Perhaps, but should I take the wikipedia’s word for it just because you agree with it?

And just curious, why no comments on the Orthodoxy link?

Because the topic at hand is not Orthodoxy.

 

[vz71]

Again, for the second or third time, I am not concerned with the validity of the Mass. You can disagree with me all you want, but I can tell you that the elements that come together to form a valid Mass are rather definitive. My concern is with the respectfulness of such a Mass, if the behavior of the laity reflects the solemnity being celebrated, and if the expression of worship reflects the historical tradition and rubric. The Charismatic Movement is very guilty of making such changes or modifications. If they were just another harmless rosary prayer group, why then the high level of controversy over their activities? Do you think I am the only Catholic in the world that has a problem with this movement? Search the web, my friend.

Would you find more comfort at a Lutheran service?
It does contain many of the same rites, just no validity.