Catholic Charities Forced to Shut Down Services around the Country

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Marriage is one man and one woman…God made that, not humans. If we choose to change the definition of marriage, then there simply is no rational reason to not allow any reasonable configuration for marriage.

Now, returning to the OP, the bottom line is Catholics are called to be obedient–period.
 
Catholic Charities in most of Illinois has cut off all state funding rather than being forced to abandon their values. This is in response to a new law legalizing “civil unions” between homosexual couples which also had a small clause banning adoption agencies receiving state funding from refusing to offer adoption. Catholic Charities in Peoria, Joliet, and Springfield diocese have even filed lawsuits in the circuit court claiming that clause violates other state laws as well as their 1st amendment rights.

It’s pathetic how lawmakers are chipping away at liberty in the name of “liberty”. I cant wait until the next election so I can help vote these guys out of there.
Chastisements hurt–they hurt so that people will come to their senses, wake-up, and then redirect their lives and the nation back towards more Godly paths. Right now faithful Christians are in tremedous pain, and so are people who rarely practice their faith–that pain has a purpose.
 
Catholic Charities in most of Illinois has cut off all state funding rather than being forced to abandon their values. This is in response to a new law legalizing “civil unions” between homosexual couples which also had a small clause banning adoption agencies receiving state funding from refusing to offer adoption. Catholic Charities in Peoria, Joliet, and Springfield diocese have even filed lawsuits in the circuit court claiming that clause violates other state laws as well as their 1st amendment rights.

It’s pathetic how lawmakers are chipping away at liberty in the name of “liberty”. I cant wait until the next election so I can help vote these guys out of there.
We’ll see how those lawsuits go.
 
BTW, some adoption agencies are secular in nature, others (like Catholic Charities) are faith based organizations.
Adoption is a function of the state. No matter who does the brokering, they have to follow the laws of the State.
I also assume you would support legally forcing Churches to marry gay couples since the 1st Amendment means so little to you.
Sacramental marriage, on the other hand, has nothing to do with the State. In fact, the State doesn’t recognize it at all. So the State has no reason force Churches to marry gay couples.
 
Adoption is a function of the state. No matter who does the brokering, they have to follow the laws of the State.

Sacramental marriage, on the other hand, has nothing to do with the State. In fact, the State doesn’t recognize it at all. So the State has no reason force Churches to marry gay couples.
The state is telling the Church that it cannot follow its own teachings in both cases. That nasty little statement that the left hates so much: “or prohibit the free exercise of…”

BTW, from a literal pov, the state has no reason to force Churches to allow gays to adopt because there are far more secular agencies, than religious. Gays have many, many other secular options to adopt.
 
It would seem to me that it would be for more logical for the state to simply force government sponsored adoption agencies to accept Gay and Lesbian couples. It doesn’t seem like there’s a great deal of need to trample on the rights of religious organization. Providing one freedom by taking away another seems, at best, a zero sum game. Actually, given the fact that neither children nor Gay and Lesbian couples seem to be benefiting from this decision I’d call it a loss.
 
Agreed. But that’s not the same as saying its the lawmakers making them close, it’s the combination of the laws and the doctrine that’s doing that. But why not try following the first example and seeing how things go?
A couple of reasons that I can think of. This assumes that the local Ordinary (bishop) would be closing his eyes to the situation and allowing it in the first place.

1, There would be a public scandal created. Scandal, in Catholic terms, means a situation that, if unaddressed, would have the effect of leading other people astray.
  1. The soul of the child would be far more likely to be damaged. The homosexual adoptive parent(s) are far more likely than heterosexual adoptive parent(s) to teach the adopted child(ren) that the Church’s teaching on homosexuality is wrong. From there, it is a quick leap to teach that the Church’s teaching on chastity, in general, is wrong.
3, The soul(s) of the prospective adoptive parent(s) is(are) likely to be damaged. The teaching of the Church as regards people with homosexual tendencies is clear: you should treat them with the love and respect because of their dignity as human beings, created in the image of God. But in no way are you to acknowledge normalcy to that condition. (See the 1988 CDF Letter to the Bishops of the Catholic Church on the Pastoral Care of Homosexual Persons – Homosexualitatis problema)
Would the Vatican excommunicate members of an agency that stayed open and followed the law?
“Excommunicate” is a term bandied around pretty liberally by non-Catholics and ignorant Catholics.

“Excommunication” is a specific form of medicinal punishment that is applied under very limited circumstances. It is medicinal rather than expiatory as it seeks to heal the person who has had that punishment imposed. There used to be two forms of excommunication: tolerati, where the person was simply excluded from the sacraments, and vitandi, where the person was excluded from the sacraments and members of the Church were told to avoid the person. Vitandi excommunication has only rarely ever been applied particularly in the last few centuries and was completely done away with in the 1983 Code of Canon Law.

There is not a specific article in the Code of Canon Law that deals with adoption agencies staying open. If they determined that they would stay open, hopefully the local Ordinary (bishop of the local church) would direct them to cease identifying themselves as a Catholic agency.

In theory, the agency and its officers could theoretically be brought before an ecclesiastical court for violation of Canon 1371. If they publicly incite people to disobey the Ordinary, they could add a charge of violating Canon 1373. If they publicly teach that homosexuality is perfectly OK and don’t stop when ordered, they could be declared in violation of Canon 1364.
Would they refuse them Mass if they didn’t remove “Catholic” from the name?
No. If a person is not found guilty by an ecclesiastical trial, they would not be refused communion. Unless they are guilty of a latae sentinae offense (in which case, the penalty is immediately effective, even without the act of the bishop or ecclesiastical court)
What would the Vatican do if they chose to stay open?
Not so much what the Vatican would do as what could the Vatican do…and the answer is “not much.” If the charity is set up with the local bishop having executive power, the local bishop could close it down, fire those who acted outside of his directives, etc. But if the local bishop does not have executive power, then, even those actions would not be possible.

The question always is a matter of what power the Vatican has. Without the support of the State, really there is nothing other than moral authority. It has always been thus. Even in the middle ages: the Vatican never chopped anybody’s head off and never burned anybody at the stake. They would declare that a person was guilty of an ecclesiastical crime and, then, at that point, turn the person over to the civil authorities. The State, using civil laws against blasphemy, heresy, etc., would then apply those civil penalties.

In these days where people really don’t care what the Church says (unless they agree with Her), bishops, including the Pope, really cannot do more than talk, unless there is something directly under their control. And, even then, for the most part the person who has the ability to do something is the local bishop. But, given that exception, if people don’t heed the words of that bishop (or the pope), there’s not much that can be done.
 
The state is telling the Church that it cannot follow its own teachings in both cases.
Of course the State isn’t telling the Church that it can’t follow it’s own teachings – in either case. The State is not telling the Church they have to marry gay people within the Church at all. And the Church is still free to engage in private adoptions. It just can’t act as brokers for the State unless it follows the rules set forth by the State.
 
Civil divorce has been legal for a long time now. Are Churches forced to marry divorced couples if they do not wish to? It seems to me that your fears here are misplaced. Everywhere that same sex marriage (or Civil Union) has been passed into law there is a let-out for churches that do not wish to perform such ceremonies.

rossum
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Sorry, bad reasoning.**

You’re confusing the Church’s view on the origins of homosexuality with civil society’s.

Civil society’s view of homosexuality is colored by the same features that make race, ethnicity, gender, religion, &c. protected in terms of discrimination: we don’t choose them and therefore it is unnatural to force people to alter them. That is, they are in some way essential.

On the other hand, divorce is a choice, like using crack, breaking into pensioner’s homes, &c.

Therefore, civil society would have wider recourse to influence the Church in cases of homosexual ‘unions’ than they ever would in cases of divorce.

QED
 
They might stay open because they wish to continue to help children find homes, and would-be-adopters find children. My question again: What would the Vatican do if a Catholic Agency chose to remain open in such conditions?
This is not the question of what should Catholic Agencies do: these people are simply attempting to match children with potential parents.

Its whether the government should be allowed to determine the purview of their work, when the ‘problematic cases’ only concern an extremely small minority of potential adopting families.

The question–which you keep posing–of what ‘the Vatican’ (care to be more specific?) would do if this happened seems irrelevant. Nice attempt to stir up the hornet’s nest, though. 👍
 
Of course the State isn’t telling the Church that it can’t follow it’s own teachings – in either case. The State is not telling the Church they have to marry gay people within the Church at all. And the Church is still free to engage in private adoptions. It just can’t act as brokers for the State unless it follows the rules set forth by the State.
Part of the Church’s mandate is to care for children…they complete part of that mission by placing children with adoptive parents. By telling Churches that they MUST allow adoption by gay couples, the state is breaching the Catholic Church’s right to free exercise of religion…quite obviously so actually.

I agree on the marriage point…I was predicting what is to come regarding marriage, yet today it is not yet so (but will be within a few years).
 
Part of the Church’s mandate is to care for children…they complete part of that mission by placing children with adoptive parents. By telling Churches that they MUST allow adoption by gay couples, the state is breaching the Catholic Church’s right to free exercise of religion…quite obviously so actually.

I agree on the marriage point…I was predicting what is to come regarding marriage, yet today it is not yet so (but will be within a few years).
I remember a case a few years ago where the Knights of Columbus were penalized by Canada’s Human Rights tribunal for not renting their hall for a lesbian “wedding” reception (they hurt the lesbians’ feelings):

**British Columbia Human Rights Tribunal Smith and Chymyshynto v. Knights of Columbus Council, Hauser and Lazar (2005) **
For refusing to rent their hall to a lesbian couple for wedding purposes, the Knights of Columbus Council in Canada was brought before the BC Human Rights Tribunal for having discriminated based on sexual orientation. The Council defended itself by explaining that the hall was on the same compound as the parish church, and that it was adorned with Catholic symbols such as a crucifix and a picture of the Pope. This, they claimed, meant that they could not perform actions that went against Catholic dogma. The Tribunal acknowledged that the Council had the right to refuse to rent the hall on religious grounds, but it nevertheless ordered the Knights of Columbus to pay $2,000 for inflicting “injury to dignity, feelings and self-respect” upon the complainants.
 
It is an amazing day to have this conversation considering there are some powerful saints we celebrate this day. Not least of which was Saint John Fisher, who was made famous for being beheaded under Henry VIII because he refused to NOT be Catholic–he would not approve of Henry VIII becoming the head of Church of England after he (H VIII) had illicitly divorced and remarried. Sadlly, Henry VIII did pull away from the Catholic Church and made himself head of the Church of England…a Church that to this very day does not have valid Priestly ordinations…amazing damage done and Saint Fisher (along with St. Thomas More) stood in the way and tried to save England (and Henry VIII) from that very painful and damaging split.

They were men who became Saints because they chose to stand for the faith of Christ.
 
I remember a case a few years ago where the Knights of Columbus were penalized by Canada’s Human Rights tribunal for not renting their hall for a lesbian “wedding” reception (they hurt the lesbians’ feelings):

**British Columbia Human Rights Tribunal Smith and Chymyshynto v. Knights of Columbus Council, Hauser and Lazar (2005) **
For refusing to rent their hall to a lesbian couple for wedding purposes, the Knights of Columbus Council in Canada was brought before the BC Human Rights Tribunal for having discriminated based on sexual orientation. The Council defended itself by explaining that the hall was on the same compound as the parish church, and that it was adorned with Catholic symbols such as a crucifix and a picture of the Pope. This, they claimed, meant that they could not perform actions that went against Catholic dogma. The Tribunal acknowledged that the Council had the right to refuse to rent the hall on religious grounds, but it nevertheless ordered the Knights of Columbus to pay $2,000 for inflicting “injury to dignity, feelings and self-respect” upon the complainants.
I remember that quite well. Many Christians have warned for years that we are on a huge slippery slope…the vast majority simply won’t listen.
 
Of course the State isn’t telling the Church that it can’t follow it’s own teachings – in either case. The State is not telling the Church they have to marry gay people within the Church at all.
yet.
And the Church is still free to engage in private adoptions. It just can’t act as brokers for the State unless it follows the rules set forth by the State.
The ‘rules set forth by the State’ just changed, big time, because the State recently redefined what constitutes marriages and families. This is a revolution.

At the same time, the State ceases to accommodate persons and groups who still adhere to the ‘old’ definition, which has existed since time immemorial. Suddenly, this is ‘discrimination.’

It is ludicrous to say that after centuries of defining marriage thusly, suddenly those who do not accept this only slightly less-inclusive definition are therefore ‘discriminators.’

**This is the flaw of the liberal system: groups cannot exist within the ‘tolerant, pluralist state’ because the government will actively exclude them from participation unless they divest themselves of their particular character.
**
 
In some U.S. states as well as in the UK, Catholic charities have ended some services in the face of laws requiring them to place children with gay couples. In these places lawmakers openly and willingly target these Catholic charities as they refuse to allow a religious exemption, pressuring them to abandon either their religious beliefs or their service to children.
see www.catholic.org/national/national_story.php?id=41680
Discrimination should be shut down. You can’t discriminate based on sexuality. That is the law, for good reason. Why would the Catholic Charities want to break the law, and why would they want to deny children a good home? It is very popular to delete threads around here which are honest about sexuality, in order to promote a particular agenda. But, there is growing evidence that children raised in some gay households are better adjusted on average psychologically than children raised in straight households.

That is not conclusive, at this time, but there are also no credible studies to show that children are harmed in any way by such an environment, so the weight of the evidence at this point in time is that lesbian households should be given preference of heterosexual households, if you consider only the welfare of the child. Why would you want to treat a child in such a way to deprive it of the best home available?

Unlike those who would discriminate against gay adoptive households, I don’t think that it would be fair to discriminate against heterosexuals for being worse parents than lesbians. Even though they may not be as good, they can still provide a loving home.
 
markomalley;8023108:
where the Knights of Columbus were penalized by Canada’s Human Rights tribunal for not renting their hall for a lesbian “wedding” reception (they hurt the lesbians’ feelings):

**British Columbia Human Rights Tribunal Smith and Chymyshynto v. Knights of Columbus Council, Hauser and Lazar (2005) **
For refusing to rent their hall to a lesbian couple for wedding purposes, the Knights of Columbus Council in Canada was brought before the BC Human Rights Tribunal for having discriminated based on sexual orientation. The Council defended itself by explaining that the hall was on the same compound as the parish church, and that it was adorned with Catholic symbols such as a crucifix and a picture of the Pope. This, they claimed, meant that they could not perform actions that went against Catholic dogma. The Tribunal acknowledged that the Council had the right to refuse to rent the hall on religious grounds, but it nevertheless ordered the Knights of Columbus to pay $2,000 for inflicting “injury to dignity, feelings and self-respect” upon the complainants.

I remember that quite well. Many Christians have warned for years that we are on a huge slippery slope…the vast majority simply won’t listen.
There are ever new test cases and causes by gay couples to launch. The curious thing is they do not accept the teaching of the Church on homosexuality, and yet there are those who gravitate to Catholic institutions even when and where they have other options. It is as though they just want to take the whip to scourge the Church on every chance.

Just look at what has started to play out:

Gay couples can already have legal unions, even ‘marriage’ in a few states. Some gay couples feel the need to test their extended ‘right’ to rent the halls connected to the Church, although they have other options as far as wedding party venues go.

Enter gay ‘adoption.’ Gay couples have the option of adopting from non-Catholic agencies, but there are those who would insist on approaching Catholic agencies for the purpose, knowing the dilemma it poses for the Church. If forced, the Church shuts down the service. Everybody loses.

(Reportedly, the above issues were raised in the NY state senate discussion, as it considers passage of the gay ‘marriage’ bill. See here.)

Enter gay ‘parenting.’ Consider the cases of gay couples enrolling their adopted children in Catholic schools. Whatever for, except to roil the Church institution and challenge long time held principles? More of pushing the envelope. They know going in that it would lead to conflict.

The cries get more shrill, does it not.

Can the First Amendment really protect our religious freedom, our freedom to exercise our religion, if or when it comes down to the wire? Gays will and are already demanding to be married in Church, with their real aim of silencing the Church, to render it inutile, in its teaching on homosexuality.

Sure, homosexual apologists say this will never happen, that states ‘always’ have a let out for clergy. The question is can we be sure the state will not be complicit with use of its regulatory and taxation powers, to effectively give undue advantage to the interest of the homosexual minority?

Catholics are called upon to support their Church, not to be participants in or collaborators with the homosexual agenda.
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But, there is growing evidence that children raised in some gay households are better adjusted on average psychologically than children raised in straight households.
There is one huge difference: homosexual adoptive couples is a self-selective group. A better comparison would be of adopted children, not just children in general. People who want children and plan for them (which adoptive parents are by necessity) are more likely to take an active interest in, and provide a caring environment for, children.

Is there “growing evidence” that homosexual adoptive parents raise “better adjusted” children than heterosexual adoptive parents?
 
Is there “growing evidence” that homosexual adoptive parents raise “better adjusted” children than heterosexual adoptive parents?
What about a child’s fundamental human right to be raised by both a mother and a father?
 
Discrimination should be shut down. You can’t discriminate based on sexuality. That is the law, for good reason. Why would the Catholic Charities want to break the law, and why would they want to deny children a good home? It is very popular to delete threads around here which are honest about sexuality, in order to promote a particular agenda. But, there is growing evidence that children raised in some gay households are better adjusted on average psychologically than children raised in straight households.

That is not conclusive, at this time, but there are also no credible studies to show that children are harmed in any way by such an environment, so the weight of the evidence at this point in time is that lesbian households should be given preference of heterosexual households, if you consider only the welfare of the child. Why would you want to treat a child in such a way to deprive it of the best home available?

Unlike those who would discriminate against gay adoptive households, I don’t think that it would be fair to discriminate against heterosexuals for being worse parents than lesbians. Even though they may not be as good, they can still provide a loving home.
Your post reflects a number of misconceptions.

Discrimination is not necessarily bad. For example, laws discriminate on age with driving and consumption of alcohol. Catholic Charities which is under Church direction does not want to break the law, nor does it wish to deny a child the benefit of a good home. Do you know that Catholic Charities does not place children with cohabiting heterosexual couples as well as same sex couples?

The Church is interested in the over-all well-being of the child, who has a right to be raised by a mother and a father married to each other. A child’s right overrides the ‘right’ of gay couples to adopt. Or, do you believe the opposite? The pro-gay adoption faction talks as if the competing interests are just those by heterosexual adoptive parents v same-sex parents.

Further, if you appreciate history, you would also appreciate that the state is on the wrong side in forcing placement of children to adoptive gay parents. The law that you would have the Church obey, runs contrary to a belief based on doctrine [not just a discipline or practice that is specific to a time or culture]. It is against a moral tenet held well before the secular law requiring CC to place kids with adoptive same-sex couples.

If any group has a particular agenda in this forum, it is the homosexualist group which is pushing for a radical change of society.

Now to your claim that there is “growing evidence of SOME gay households are better adjusted than heterosexual households.” You must be referring to anecdotes that gay activists love to tout, not long term studies. The few pro-gay studies that came out were actually problematic in sampling and self-presentation bias. If you can cite something different, please cite the study.

As a suggestion, you would be served by better and balanced information. Expand your reading outside literature that passes as science by the APA. APA has made itself an instrument of homosexualists and relinquished its independence and responsibility to the pursuit of scientific truths. Fortunately, there are professional and academic organizations that are independent and do not follow APA politics.

Read this from the American College of Pediatricians, Homosexual Parenting: Is it Time for Change?.
Are children reared by two individuals of the same gender as well adjusted as children reared in families with a mother and a father? Until recently the unequivocal answer to this question was “no.” Within the last decade, however, professional health organizations, academics, social policymakers and the media have begun asserting that prohibitions on parenting by homosexual couples should be lifted. In making such far-reaching, generation-changing assertions, any responsible advocate would rely upon supporting evidence that is comprehensive and conclusive. Not only is this not the situation, but also there is sound evidence that children exposed to the homosexual lifestyle may be at increased risk for emotional, mental, and even physical harm.
Don’t forget to review the 44 references as listed at the end.
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