Catholic Charities USA seeks minimum-wage hike

[mvinca]

Of the 13 million children to live in poverty and 46 million women and children who live without adequate healthcare, how much will raising the min. wage net-impact that?

Make it 15 million and 50 million respectively?

 

[josephdavid]

Make it 15 million and 50 million respectively?

Can anyone show me sound economic data indicating the each time the government had raised the national minimum wage standards, resulted in negative economic data?

Another above mentioned abortion. I did not think this was about abortion. But I will ask this… where are the majority of abortion clinics? Who are the majority that have abortions?

Although lets be realistic. Raising minimum wage will not stop poverty but is part of a wide circle of strategies to help combat poverty. There are other issues such as education, healtcare, etc.

But sometimes I wonder if this society values what is in their own pockets versus the homless women and children in this world.

 

[chicago]

Another above mentioned abortion. I did not think this was about abortion.

On message boards such as this EVERYTHING is somehow about abortion. As one (notably pro-life) local radio host frequently said, “I wish we could all come to do the right thing regarding abortion so that we could move on to talk about the other issues.”

 

[fix]

where are the majority of abortion clinics? Who are the majority that have abortions?

Do you think most abortions are by poor women?

 

[fix]

On message boards such as this EVERYTHING is somehow about abortion. As one (notably pro-life) local radio host frequently said, “I wish we could all come to do the right thing regarding abortion so that we could move on to talk about the other issues.”

My point is I find folks try to claim the Church binds our consciences on these matters in the same way our consciences are bound on the abortion issue.

Meaning we must support some minimum wage increase law. I see no proof.

 

[hoosiertoo]

Poverty is relative…

*I was living in Angola,
Reading in the paper
'Bout the new depression
Got the States upset
Still, I just can’t see
How only one TV
And two slightly used cars
Causes such regrets

In this country such as ours,
If we had these things,
We would either be European
Or descend from kings

Oh! Sometimes, you know,
I hunger for more than food,
For more than the shelter
From the cold monsoons
I’d like swimmin’ pools
And refrigerated air
And an extra room to spare
(No more ten to a room),
And a thinking color set
With a close-up zoom

But in this country such as ours,
If we had these things,
We’d be a U.N. delegation
Or a visiting queen

And you remember well
The day when old Wall Street fell
And do you fear it again?
Still there is one major difference
In just how we see some things
What you call poor we call prosperity…* - Puerta/Pack

It is also not a condition that money can can cure - especially other people’s money. We do more than enough materially for “the poor.” If anyone is going to bed hungry it has nothing to do with our lack of largesse.

The increase in the minimum wage is a sop to a political constituency and a hidden tax increase for the working poor and will accomplish exactly nothing for the poor.

 

[rlg94086]

Originally Posted by josephdavid forums.catholic-questions.org/images/buttons_cad/viewpost.gif
Another above mentioned abortion. I did not think this was about abortion.

On message boards such as this EVERYTHING is somehow about abortion. As one (notably pro-life) local radio host frequently said, “I wish we could all come to do the right thing regarding abortion so that we could move on to talk about the other issues.”

Actually, josephdavid brought up abortion in his response to me.

How is it we hold a government official responsible for the life of the unborn but nothing for the poor? Is it not Christ’s calling for us all to be charitable?

No doubt, fix was responding to that…

 

[rlg94086]

is not the owner or executive of a business an invidual relying on others to perform the work?

Yes. And the Bible and the Catechism clearly calls on these individuals to pay a fair wage to their employees.

Is not a government made of individuals?

Yes, and you can personally believe that government mandates are a good way to go. However, that is not what the Bible or the Church requires through in their teaching.

How is it we hold a government official responsible for the life of the unborn but nothing for the poor? Is it not Christ’s calling for us all to be charitable?

Yes, we are called to be charitable, but I don’t remember Christ calling on the Roman Senate to be charitable - He spoke to individuals. Regarding abortion, it is right to have laws against murder.

Also there are no documented proof that I can find that shows affects of past minimum wage hikes. Only I find that after the last one unemployment and prices stayed very steady until 2001.

Okay. What does that have to do with my point?
I’m not totally against minimum wages, but I am against a national minimum wage. And, I don’t believe a government mandated minimum wage is necessarily required by Church teaching as many seem to want to show. It’s acceptable as Catholics to be for or against a government mandated minimum wage.

 

[josephdavid]

Do you think most abortions are by poor women?

No however what I had asked is what is the majority. For the wealthier groups of people and better educated it is even more a tradegy they run to people like Planned Parenthood to use abortion as a method of birth control. Especially them because unlike the poor they can afford healthcare for the child, have stronger family networks, etc.

With that said I would encourage you to research the statement I have made.

 

[josephdavid]

Actually, josephdavid brought up abortion in his response to me. No doubt, fix was responding to that…

stand corrected sorry but my question still stands. I would like an intelligent answer to that.

 

[fix]

No however what I had asked is what is the majority. For the wealthier groups of people and better educated it is even more a tradegy they run to people like Planned Parenthood to use abortion as a method of birth control. Especially them because unlike the poor they can afford healthcare for the child, have stronger family networks, etc.

With that said I would encourage you to research the statement I have made.

I have no idea of what point you are trying to make?

You ask if there are more abortion clinics in poor neighborhoods. You ask who are the majority that have abortions?

I ask you if you think most abortions are by poor women?

Then you ask what is the majority?

I am thinking that the number one reason given for surgical abortion in this country is convenience. Do you think poor women are more prone to have an abortion than wealthier women? Do you think cash is the main factor that would change a woman’s mind? Do you think an increase in minimum wage will change any of it?

 

[rlg94086]

stand corrected sorry but my question still stands. I would like an intelligent answer to that.

I thought I gave you one…it is right for government to pass laws against murder.

Now, I will add that I don’t believe murder and minimum wages need to be handled the same way by governments.

 

[josephdavid]

Yes, and you can personally believe that government mandates are a good way to go. However, that is not what the Bible or the Church requires through in their teaching.

Yes, we are called to be charitable, but I don’t remember Christ calling on the Roman Senate to be charitable - He spoke to individuals. Regarding abortion, it is right to have laws against murder.

I would suggest reading Micha, Amos, Isaiah. All prophets who preached to the Kings and leaders of the Jewish nation. Jesus came to fullfill the prophesies.

I understand that many of us Catholics are doing outstanding job donating their hard earned money and time to help fight poverty and abortion. However we need to do more. Each day 30,000 children in this world, die each day because of hunger and treatable diseases. Based on a Census Bureau survey of 50,000 households, the department estimated that 3.8 million families were hungry last year to the point where someone in the household skipped meals because they couldn’t afford them. That’s an 8.6 percent increase from 2001, when 3.5 million families were hungry, and a 13 percent increase from 2000.

We have the second most infant mortality rate compared to the rest of the most industrialized nations. Mostly due to lack of adequate health-care.

On a parallel example here in our town we are organizing a fund raiser for a family who is on the verge of losing their home because the man’s wife died of cancer. She had breast cancer. She died after a result of her not having insurance and the local hopsitals would not administer the necessary treatment to save her life because she had no insurance. Not even Medicaire/Medicaid would cover it.

Are we not the wealthiest and most industrialized nation in the world?

Other than that perhaps I should throw out my Catholic Social Teaching texts and writings by Popes on this issue because perhaps what they profess does not apply to our country.

 

[josephdavid]

I thought I gave you one…it is right for government to pass laws against murder.

Now, I will add that I don’t believe murder and minimum wages need to be handled the same way by governments.

It would be great if the states would be more progressive on this issue but the majority are not. Only 23 states out of 50 have higher minimum wage requirements than the Federal standard.

Where are the poorest of the poor living? In the states which adhere to the Federal level. Not saying minimum wage hike is the solve all to poverty in America but it one of the solution.

$5.15/hr does not go as far as it did in 1998.

As for murder (aka abortion) each state even has their own regulations on this issue. We finally got that idiot Blagoivich to leave the parental notification law alone and let it be enforced. Thanks to the State Supreme court and lobbying.

 

[rlg94086]

I would suggest reading Micha, Amos, Isaiah. All prophets who preached to the Kings and leaders of the Jewish nation. Jesus came to fullfill the prophesies.

I will do that. Can you kindly point out where the prophets preach to the Kings and leaders regarding government mandated minimum wages?

 

[hoosiertoo]

Other than that perhaps I should throw out my Catholic Social Teaching texts and writings by Popes on this issue because perhaps what they profess does not apply to our country.

Actually, you should read more, starting with *Rerum Novarum *and paying particular attention to Centesimus Annus Then I recommend the Compendium of the Social Docrine of the Church.

Then spend a little time at the Acton Institute for the Study of Religion and Liberty.

Here’s a good place to start:

Pope John Paul II’s encyclical, Centesimus Annus, is a marvelous defense of capitalism and attack on socialism in its feudal, totalitarian, and welfare state forms. One is particularly impressed by Pope John Paul’s argument that the burdens that the welfare state places on the poor are immoral. Accordingly, this teaching does more than simply return the Catholic church to the position originally expressed by Pope Leo XIII in Rerum Novarum, whose one-hundredth anniversary it celebrates…

As I have come to understand the workings of the modern welfare state, I see that the poor are victimized by legal minimum wage laws that deny them the dignity of work and the true sympathy of those who are better off. More generally, and as argued by Pope John Paul, the poor are victimized by the state’s many interventions into the economy that prevent them from working, that price goods and services out of their reach, and that pervert natural incentives to work and otherwise act responsibly. - Clifford F. Thies

 

[josephdavid]

I will do that. Can you kindly point out where the prophets preach to the Kings and leaders regarding government mandated minimum wages?

read my post #211

In Isaiah the word Statute is used: Statute: a formal, written law of a country or state, written and enacted by its legislative authority, perhaps to then be ratified by the highest executive in the government, and finally published. Typically, statutes command, prohibit, or declare something

Micah writes about the impending judgment of the Lord to the nation of Israel for their sins and censure of the leaders for their for not holding up to their responsibility.

 

[rlg94086]

read my post #211

In Isaiah the word Statute is used: Statute: a formal, written law of a country or state, written and enacted by its legislative authority, perhaps to then be ratified by the highest executive in the government, and finally published. Typically, statutes command, prohibit, or declare something

I already read it…I commented on it in post #212:

It also speaks of “unjust statutes.” A small business owner could easily agree with that passage from Isiah as an example of why the government should not force a national minimum wage which would effect small businesses in smaller, lower wage states much worse than larger, higher wage states.

As hoosiertoo has pointed out, the minimum wage laws are also considered by some to be unjust treatment of the poor.

I think it is a stretch to use that passage as a justification for the minimum wage laws. Obviously, the passage is speaking against unjust statutes not telling the leaders to enact new statutes.

 

[josephdavid]

Hoosiertoo:

I would like to read documented information showing the negative impact of people and economies with a national minimum wage?

An similar example was the fight in Chicago for a “just wage” which Target and Wal-Mart threated to pull out their developments if this was passed. Their reasoning was they could not be profitable with paying anything more than the minimum wage in the city of Chicago. However they can not answer me and some others who have asked Wal-Mart executives why Costco has 2 stores with in the city of Chicago and the average pay is $15.00/hr and has the same pricing as their counterparts?

Then again the CEO of Wal-Mart said he could not afford to pay any of its employees a living wage. He makes $17 milliion a year.

I would be all for not having this type of legislation neccessary if private companies would live up to their moral responsibility to their employees and the employees families.

Just like our environmental policies passed in the '70’s. It would not of been necessary if private enterprise was not dumping toxic waste into our drinking water and polluting our air to the point that it was dangerous to breath our air.

I am not implying that the U.S. should apply total socialism however they have a moral responsibility to make sure their citizens are treated fairly and just (the Preamble of the U.S. Constitution)

 

[josephdavid]

I already read it…I commented on it in post #212:

As hoosiertoo has pointed out, the minimum wage laws are also considered by some to be unjust treatment of the poor.

I think it is a stretch to use that passage as a justification for the minimum wage laws. Obviously, the passage is speaking against unjust statutes not telling the leaders to enact new statutes.

PLEASE SOMEONE show me any economic data indicating negative impact of a higher federal minimum or even state wages? Please?