Catholic Charities USA seeks minimum-wage hike

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josephdavid said:
PLEASE SOMEONE show me any economic data indicating negative impact of a higher federal minimum or even state wages? Please?
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I hope you aren’t directing that at me. I’m not arguing that the minimum wage would have a negative impact on the economy…quite frankly, I don’t know. Normally, you ask for proof from someone making an assertion…I don’t think I have done that, but this thread is pretty long. 😛

I have stated that the Church doesn’t require governments to have minimum wage laws, and that Catholics can support a ‘yea’ or ‘nay’ stance equally based on Church teaching.
 
Minimum Wage Increase Hurts Teens and Minorities
SUNY Plattsburgh economics professor D.W. MacKenzie, citing figures from the Bureau of Labor Statistics, reports that the unemployment rate for everyone over the age of 16 was 5.6 percent in 2005. Yet unemployment was 19.7 percent for those aged 16-17, while in the 18-19 age group it was 15.8 percent. The unemployment rate for white teens in the 16-17 age group was 17.3 percent in 2005, while the same figures for Hispanic and black teens were 25 percent and 40.9 percent, respectively.
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These numbers highlight the fact that the populations most likely to suffer from minimum-wage-caused unemployment are those that are already most at risk. University of Connecticut economics professor, Kenneth Couch, estimates that a one-dollar rise in the minimum wage in the current economic environment would further reduce teenage employment opportunities by at least 145,000 – and possibly as many as 436,000 – jobs - Anthony Bradley
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hoosiertoo said:
Minimum Wage Increase Hurts Teens and Minorities
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What are the statistics following the last federally or state mandated wage increase? This shows what are current levels of unemployment, almost 10 years after last wage increase. Most of the unemployed are unskilled and increasing skilled workers.

As I said before I am not finding stastics showing negative results after.

In this report the final comment is as quoted: Employees who become more productive by gaining experience and improving their education earn larger raises and salaries in the long term. A minimum wage set by agreement between employer and employee establishes the best entry point for people with few skills to gain experience and develop the abilities needed to advance. It is in keeping with both human dignity and economic reality to give employers and employees freedom to negotiate employment on terms set by themselves, not by politicians.

I agree with this BUT unfortnately business are not doing this but only the wages of the average worker is lessening or are stagnent at best, while the executive pay is increasing. Current reports show that corporate profits are on rise but wages are stagnent. cbpp.org/8-31-06inc.htm; nytimes.com/2006/08/28/business/28wages.html?ex=1314417600&en=c60dea87527e4510&ei=5088&partner=rssnyt&emc=rss; money.cnn.com/2006/08/28/news/economy/real_wages/

If the private business is not going to live up to the above assertion then who will?
 
rlg94086 said:
I hope you aren’t directing that at me. I’m not arguing that the minimum wage would have a negative impact on the economy…quite frankly, I don’t know. Normally, you ask for proof from someone making an assertion…I don’t think I have done that, but this thread is pretty long. 😛

I have stated that the Church doesn’t require governments to have minimum wage laws, and that Catholics can support a ‘yea’ or ‘nay’ stance equally based on Church teaching.
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You directly? No but there are some here that say this will cause economic problems. But yet not state any history showing that is fact.
 
josephdavid said:
You directly? No but there are some here that say this will cause economic problems. But yet not state any history showing that is fact.
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Statistics

Predicting or or diserning the effect of a single factor in something as complex as the US economy is nearly impossible. As the economy has certainly grown since the last minmum wage increase, it would be difficult to make a case that such an increase has a deleterious effect on the economy, unless it can somehow be shown that the increase inhinited the economy from growing even more.

The real indicators are going to be in looking at employment numbers, and the stats above on teen employment are telling. Even so there may be other factors at work, and I don’t pretend to be an expert.

I do know that all things being equal, if the wage increases by 40% a third of my workforce is going away and I am going to be increasing prices.

The stats are used for the following paper:
The Effects of Minimum Wages Throughout the Wage Distribution
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“The evidence indicates that workers initially earning near the minimum wage are adversely affected by minimum wage increases, while, not surprisingly, higher-wage workers are little affected. Although wages of low-wage workers increase , their hours and employment decline, and the combined effect of these changes is a decline in earned income. We also delve into the political economy of minimum wages, attempting to understand the vigorous support of labor unions for minimum wage increases. Using the same empirical framework, we find that relatively low-wage union members gain at the expense of the lowest-wage nonunion workers when minimum wages increase.”
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from the Abstract: The members of the subminimum (wage) population are found to experience considerably reduced employment probabilities and annual hours worked (conditional on employment). Some evidence of above-minimum spillover effects is also found. The paper evaluates the impact of the minimum on the earnings distribution and concludes that the burden of the minimum wage falls most severely on females. This effect on adult females is surprisingly neutral with respect to race. The greatest beneficiaries of the minimum among the adult population are union members. Once again, this effect is relatively neutral with respect to race.
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Peter Linnemann
 
David Neumark was the one who wrote this and is a well respected economist. Although puzzling this is same man who wrote a paper on how Wal-Mart is driving down salaries and inducing unemployment when they move into each town.

Why not do what Sweden does which is no federal minimum wage but collective bargening agreements (parallel example is what Japanese automakers are doing in their U.S. plants)?

Their average pay is about $17/hr
 
Nurse_Joy said:
IWho doesn’t get this? So the family that is scraping along with 2 minimum wage jobs loses one and now has one at 150% wage they used to have. Sounds like that family’s income goes down 50%.
.
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Actually, if these two people in the example cut down to one worker, that means they don’t have to pay daycare costs anymore, thus their income actually does increase.
 
Some people seem to be asking for “hard data” to prove some points. I think the point was well made that this is a complex issue and showing data for one view point or the other is difficult. But the comment about the family working 2 minimum wage jobs had me thinking. This is data that should be achievable. Does anyone know if there is some data on the number of families (ie. husband, wife, and some form of dependents) in the USA that are actually only earning minimum wages?
 
vern_humphrey said:
You realize also that a family is an** obligation**, not a right? Before one starts a family, one should be sure one is able to support that family.
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I realize this. That’s why we had a vasectomy after 2 kids for this reason. But I still find your comment odd, appearing on a Catholic website, because the CC is so against birth control.
 
jimi22 said:
Most of What Chicago is saying is socialist theory. The nanny state much like Europe. Everyone in the U.S. has the same basic opportunity to succeed; no not everyone is born with a silver spoon in their mouth but if the are willing to work hard and take those low paying jobs,then they have the means to pay for their education. It’s not about having the “Right” to have children it’s about setting your priorities and making the right choices. People always want to blame someone else for their problems, the problem is that they should blame themselves for their choices. It is not the Governments job to tell me what to eat or where to sleep. It is insane to be willing to accept higher prices for an increase in the wage, it is self defeating and illogical. You gain more money over here but you pay more over there so now it’s a wash and nothing is gained.
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See, my problem with this is that many people go through life making the wrong choices. What about their children? Don’t they deserve enough food on the table, and proper clothing and shelter?
 
Nurse_Joy said:
That’s insane!

Imagine all the people who want a career working 2 hours a day testing the solitaire game for Microsoft. By your logic we have to respect the intrinsic dignity of this career path.

You don’t get a family wage for that. No one will pay for that.

These arguments leave out the fact that economics determines the allocation of scarce resources using prices. Putting a fake high price on a resource results in no one paying for that resource.

Who pays their babysitter $7.50 an hour? What if I want my career to be babysitting one kid at a time? How long do you think my customer list will be?
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SeriouslY? $7.50 / hr sounds unreasonable to you? I pay $7 an hour for our 15 year old sitter. I don’t know anyone who pays less than $6/hr and a few people I know pay $10.
 
estesbob said:
You can afford to start a business. I started mine with less than 10,000. Of course that would entail you taking a risk-better to live off somene elses business and pontificate on how they should run it.
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Gosh, I’m serial posting here. Seriously, though, I had to post a response to this. $10k!!??!! No way could I ever come up with that kind of money!
 
boppaid said:
I realize this. That’s why we had a vasectomy after 2 kids for this reason. But I still find your comment odd, appearing on a Catholic website, because the CC is so against birth control.
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Against contraception, not planning. The term birth control is vague.
boppaid said:
Gosh, I’m serial posting here. Seriously, though, I had to post a response to this. $10k!!??!! No way could I ever come up with that kind of money!
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You could lower the babysitter wage to $6 and start saving the excess. (Just playful banter 😉 )
 
mvinca said:
Some people seem to be asking for “hard data” to prove some points. I think the point was well made that this is a complex issue and showing data for one view point or the other is difficult. But the comment about the family working 2 minimum wage jobs had me thinking. This is data that should be achievable. Does anyone know if there is some data on the number of families (ie. husband, wife, and some form of dependents) in the USA that are actually only earning minimum wages?
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pubdb3.census.gov/macro/032006/faminc/new01_001.htm

cbpp.org/1-5-07mw.htm

epi.org/minwage/epi_minimum_wage_2006.pdf
 
hoosiertoo said:
1) I don’t know that the “needs of the job market” should be paramount; I don’t think schools should become vocational training facilities, although even that would be an improvement for most public schools.

**2) **The effect of the minimum wage hike will be to increase the price of goods at WalMart and other retailers who have the lowest paid help in this area and make it more difficult to attract unskilled workers in the marginally better paying restaurant and janitorial positions.
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  1. Actually this would be great idea especially in manufacturiing where skilled workers are far and few. Germany, Sweden and especially Japan are some countries which have these programs and subsidised apprentiship programs resulting in some of the most skilled workers in the world.
  2. Do you have data on this?
 
jimi22 said:
Most of What Chicago is saying is socialist theory. The nanny state much like Europe. Everyone in the U.S. has the same basic opportunity to succeed; no not everyone is born with a silver spoon in their mouth but if the are willing to work hard and take those low paying jobs,then they have the means to pay for their education. It’s not about having the “Right” to have children it’s about setting your priorities and making the right choices. People always want to blame someone else for their problems, the problem is that they should blame themselves for their choices. It is not the Governments job to tell me what to eat or where to sleep. It is insane to be willing to accept higher prices for an increase in the wage, it is self defeating and illogical. You gain more money over here but you pay more over there so now it’s a wash and nothing is gained.
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“Sorry little Billie, but because your mother decided to bring you into this world and your father left your mother, that is your problem, not mine. So if your cold because your heat is shut off or skipping meals or medicine for your asthma. Again thats your problem.”
 
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