Catholic Charities USA seeks minimum-wage hike

[rlg94086]

1. Actually this would be great idea especially in manufacturiing where skilled workers are far and few. Germany, Sweden and especially Japan are some countries which have these programs and subsidised apprentiship programs resulting in some of the most skilled workers in the world.

We do have vocational schools in the US. This one in my neighborhood is owned and operated by 10 school districts:
ccskillscenter.com/?id=7

Things don’t have to be driven by the federal government.

 

[mvinca]

pubdb3.census.gov/macro/032006/faminc/new01_001.htm

cbpp.org/1-5-07mw.htm

epi.org/minwage/epi_minimum_wage_2006.pdf

Thanks. It would be interesting to take some of the categories and know how they overlap. For example, of those under $10k income (4055k of 77418k families), 2571k (63%) aren’t working at all. Minimum wage increase won’t help them. 2346k (58%) have High School education or less. At their income level, they could go to college for free. (Although would require some sacrifice, I know.) But what would be really interesting would be how these overlap. For example, how many of the not working are over 65 or under 18? There isn’t a way to combine the two data points to find that information. Although I understand why, if they did all combinations it would be a real pain of a report. Or maybe how many that aren’t working that are currently attending school. Maybe it overlaps a lot, which would be good news.

 

[josephdavid]

We do have vocational schools in the US. This one in my neighborhood is owned and operated by 10 school districts:
ccskillscenter.com/?id=7

Things don’t have to be driven by the federal government.

If we had more of that great. If private companies would be more proactive in the pay and training of their employees there would be no need for some sort of state or federal intervention.

I had posted earlier in the case of a country like Sweden they do not have a federall mandated minimum wage. Each company has their own collective bargaining agreements where average pay in U.S. dollars is $17 hr .

 

[rlg94086]

If we had more of that great. If private companies would be more proactive in the pay and training of their employees there would be no need for some sort of state or federal intervention.

I had posted earlier in the case of a country like Sweden they do not have a federall mandated minimum wage. Each company has their own collective bargaining agreements where average pay in U.S. dollars is $17 hr.

Sounds similar to unionized collective bargaining. I wouldn’t be surprised if the average pay in a unionized business in the US is higher than $17/hr (Edit add - in an area of the US with a similar cost-of-living to that in Sweden). Is the collective bargaining a mandatory/mandated regulation by the Swedish government, or is it up to the employees to organize?

 

[josephdavid]

Sounds similar to unionized collective bargaining. I wouldn’t be surprised if the average pay in a unionized business in the US is higher than $17/hr (Edit add - in an area of the US with a similar cost-of-living to that in Sweden). Is the collective bargaining a mandatory/mandated regulation by the Swedish government, or is it up to the employees to organize?

Collective bargaining is not mandatory it is customary. However if there are abertrary disagreements the government will over see the contracts and make consultation or judgements there after.

80% of the labor force in Sweden is unionized, compared to i believe about 36% here in U.S… Each sector has their own agreements.

Healthcare is provided by either government or by employer. Sweden has some of best healtcare available in the industrialized nations.

 

[rlg94086]

Sweden, heaven on earth…or not:

If the new government wishes to remain in power for more than 4 years they should always remember their own message during the election campaign. In the long term Sweden has many economic problems. The true unemployment rate is according to some estimates up to 15-20 percent. Welfare dependency is widespread and Sweden is doing much worse than the majority of industrialized nations regarding the creation of new companies.

That the Swedish economy has managed to develop during the past few years is to a large extent thanks to a number of successful Swedish multinational companies. But few of the large companies that the Swedish economy is so dependent on have been created after 1970, and the existing ones are increasingly establishing themselves in other countries.

Other problems include an aging population, the world’s highest taxes and perhaps most importantly that the Swedish work ethic is weakening due to many years with a generous welfare system that has punished hard work and rewarded those that do not work.

thelocal.se/5251/20061017/

Collective bargaining is not mandatory it is customary. However if there are abertrary disagreements the government will over see the contracts and make consultation or judgements there after.

80% of the labor force in Sweden is unionized, compared to i believe about 36% here in U.S… Each sector has their own agreements.

Healthcare is provided by either government or by employer. Sweden has some of best healtcare available in the industrialized nations.

 

[josephdavid]

Sweden, heaven on earth…or not:

thelocal.se/5251/20061017/

Economy
GDP (2005, purchasing power parity): $268.3 billion. GDP (2005, official exchange rate): $348.1 billion.
Annual growth rate (2005): 2.7%.
Per capita income (2005, purchasing power parity): $29,800.
Inflation rate (2006): 1.4%.
Natural resources: Forests, hydroelectric power, iron ore, copper, lead, zinc, gold, silver, tungsten, uranium, arsenic, feldspar, timber.
Agriculture (1.1% of GDP): Products–dairy products, meat, grains (barley, wheat), sugar beets, potatoes, wood. Arable land–6 million acres.
Industry (28.2% of GDP): Types–machinery/metal products (iron and steel), electrical equipment, aircraft, paper products, precision equipment (bearings, radio and telephone parts, armaments), wood pulp and paper products, processed foods.
Services (70.7% of GDP): Types–telecommunications, computer equipment, biotech.
Trade: Exports (2005)–$126.6 billion. Types–machinery, transport equipment, motor vehicles, wood products, paper, pulp, chemicals, iron and steel products, and manufactured goods. Imports (2005)–$104.4 billion. Types–machinery, petroleum and petroleum products, chemicals, motor vehicles, iron and steel, foodstuffs, clothing. Major trading partners (2005)–Germany 17.5%, Denmark 8.9%, Norway 7.8%, U.K. 6.6%, Netherlands 6.2%, Finland 5.8%, France 5%.

PEOPLE
Sweden has one of the world’s highest life expectancies and one of the lowest birth rates. The country counts at least 17,000 Sami among its population. About one-fifth of Sweden’s population are immigrants or have at least one foreign-born parent. The largest immigrant groups are from Finland, Serbia and Montenegro, Bosnia-Herzegovina, Iran, Norway, Denmark, and Poland. This reflects Nordic immigration, earlier periods of labor immigration, and later decades of refugee and family immigration.

source: state.gov/r/pa/ei/bgn/2880.htm

sweden.gov.se/sb/d/7341/a/71000

I will concur the unemployment is high but at least they have healthcare. Outside of publications you have pointed out not many Swedes complain about paying high taxes for in return of a society which there is some sense of security if one is sick or unemployed.

I have lived in Germany not as rigid as Sweden but close and many agree to that.

 

[rlg94086]

A great healthcare system that will collapse because of their aging population. A great welfare system that is causing their employment problems and in jeopardy because of their aging population.

My company is based in The Netherlands, and they are adjusting to similar realities by weakening their welfare programs and worker protections. Reality is causing a lot of Europe to make serious adjustments to the very systems that you admire, because they are not sustainable.

Economy
GDP (2005, purchasing power parity): $268.3 billion. GDP (2005, official exchange rate): $348.1 billion.
Annual growth rate (2005): 2.7%.
Per capita income (2005, purchasing power parity): $29,800.
Inflation rate (2006): 1.4%.
Natural resources: Forests, hydroelectric power, iron ore, copper, lead, zinc, gold, silver, tungsten, uranium, arsenic, feldspar, timber.
Agriculture (1.1% of GDP): Products–dairy products, meat, grains (barley, wheat), sugar beets, potatoes, wood. Arable land–6 million acres.
Industry (28.2% of GDP): Types–machinery/metal products (iron and steel), electrical equipment, aircraft, paper products, precision equipment (bearings, radio and telephone parts, armaments), wood pulp and paper products, processed foods.
Services (70.7% of GDP): Types–telecommunications, computer equipment, biotech.
Trade: Exports (2005)–$126.6 billion. Types–machinery, transport equipment, motor vehicles, wood products, paper, pulp, chemicals, iron and steel products, and manufactured goods. Imports (2005)–$104.4 billion. Types–machinery, petroleum and petroleum products, chemicals, motor vehicles, iron and steel, foodstuffs, clothing. Major trading partners (2005)–Germany 17.5%, Denmark 8.9%, Norway 7.8%, U.K. 6.6%, Netherlands 6.2%, Finland 5.8%, France 5%.

PEOPLE
Sweden has one of the world’s highest life expectancies and one of the lowest birth rates. The country counts at least 17,000 Sami among its population. About one-fifth of Sweden’s population are immigrants or have at least one foreign-born parent. The largest immigrant groups are from Finland, Serbia and Montenegro, Bosnia-Herzegovina, Iran, Norway, Denmark, and Poland. This reflects Nordic immigration, earlier periods of labor immigration, and later decades of refugee and family immigration.

source: state.gov/r/pa/ei/bgn/2880.htm

sweden.gov.se/sb/d/7341/a/71000

I will concur the unemployment is high but at least they have healthcare. Outside of publications you have pointed out not many Swedes complain about paying high taxes for in return of a society which there is some sense of security if one is sick or unemployed.

I have lived in Germany not as rigid as Sweden but close and many agree to that.

 

[rlg94086]

BTW…we may be a little off topic.

 

[josephdavid]

BTW…we may be a little off topic.

Nah I dont think so. What we are trying to discuss here is what do we do? What is right. There has to be a happy medium as to what is going on now with the gap between rich and poor is widening at an alarming rate. I am all for capitolism and free markets but not at the expense of leaving some one on the wayside for my own benifit.

We obviously have an issue of too many Americans living in poverty. Not saying raising the minimum is the sole solution but part of the solution.

 

[jman507]

Nah I dont think so. What we are trying to discuss here is what do we do? What is right. There has to be a happy medium as to what is going on now with the gap between rich and poor is widening at an alarming rate. I am all for capitolism and free markets but not at the expense of leaving some one on the wayside for my own benifit.

We obviously have an issue of too many Americans living in poverty. Not saying raising the minimum is the sole solution but part of the solution.

What exactly will raising the min. wage do? How many will it lift out of poverty? What percentage of people will it help that use min wage as a primary source of income? Does a min. wage earner spend a greater percentage of their money on goods and services that use min. wage employees? If so will the real inflation rate for min. wage earners be masked by the national inflation rate? How many jobs will be lost? How many small business owners will not be able to not break even? How many small business owners not be able to expand? If it helps a region bring people out of poverty, will more impoverished migrate in? How will this affect ‘black market jobs’/‘jobs done under-the-table’? How might this effect outsourcing? Would it be better to do it regionally or nationally or not at all?

A lot of big projects need a ecological impact statement. It probably can only estimate so well about an impact by a project, but atleast one will have some idea and also not be blind sighted by something majorly wrong. If one wants to raise the min wage to help poverty, one should have some idea what it’ll do at first. One ought to have some type of stratagy, after all you don’t want good feelings changing a macro-policy, while those in the micro areas are saying “uhhmm this is breaking me” or “I don’t really see much of a differance, the numbers might be more, but I’m still getting the same amount of stuff.”

 

[Jeffrey]

Thats too bad… looks like I"m gonna have to have my wife stop donating to them if this is one of the things they are using the money for

Catholic Charities USA seeks minimum-wage hike

Washington, DC, Jan. 9, 2007 (CWNews.com) - Catholic Charities USA has issued a call for an increase in the minimum wage, arguing that an hourly wage increase for American workers is “vital to addressing the issue of poverty in the United States.”

Reporting “steady double-digit increases each year” in the number of requests for assistance from Catholic Charities, the organization observed that the federal minimum wage for American workers has been stagnant since 1997 at $5.15 per hour. Workers earning that rate “simply cannot earn enough to cover rent, child care, food, utilities, and clothing for their families," said Father Larry Snyder, president of Catholic Charities USA.
Catholic Charities USA is also recommending that minimum-wage legislation include a provision to adjust for inflation. The coalition of Catholic relief agencies will inaugurate a campaign this week to encourage Congress to pay the necessary legislation.

more

 

[hoosiertoo]

“Just” wage = mutually agreed upon wage.

Just because the wage is arbitrarily set by a third party doesn’t make it “just.”

 

[rlg94086]

“Just” wage = mutually agreed upon wage.

Actually, that is not accurate according to the Catechism:

**2434 A just wage is the legitimate fruit of work. To refuse or withhold it can be a grave injustice. In determining fair pay both the needs and the contributions of each person must be taken into account. “Remuneration for work should guarantee man the opportunity to provide a dignified livelihood for himself and his family on the material, social, cultural and spiritual level, taking into account the role and the productivity of each, the state of the business, and the common good.” Agreement between the parties is not sufficient to justify morally the amount to be received in wages.

hoosiertoo:

Just because the wage is arbitrarily set by a third party doesn’t make it “just.”

This is true. The responsibility to pay a fair wage is on the business owner.

 

[josephdavid]

This is true. The responsibility to pay a fair wage is on the business owner.

With wages are decreasing or flat at best; the gap between rich and poor increasing, and more entering poverty each year in U.S., but profits continue to increase… I can see that business are living up to being responsible to their employees.

 

[rlg94086]

With wages are decreasing or flat at best; the gap between rich and poor increasing, and more entering poverty each year in U.S., but profits continue to increase… I can see that business are living up to being responsible to their employees.

Are you living up to everything taught in the Catechism?

 

[mvinca]

With wages are decreasing or flat at best; the gap between rich and poor increasing, and more entering poverty each year in U.S., but profits continue to increase… I can see that business are living up to being responsible to their employees.

Wages aren’t the only thing that contribute to this gap (if it even contributes at all.) I live in what is considered a very poor, run down area of my city. People here would be considered poor. Generalizing (I realize generalizing not the best thing, at this won’t apply to the whole US) I can easily put my neighbors into two categories: those that are poor won’t be in the future (or at least their kids won’t be in the future), and those that are poor that will stay poor. What is the difference between the two? Attitude. For example, the Hispanic family right across the street from me is an excellent example of parents who are making sacrifices for thier children. Their children won’t be poor because of their sacrifice. Their kids are involved in things like band, where the parents work 120 hours a week between the two of them so that they can afford the instrument for their kid to excel and learn. The drug addicts right behind me aren’t pulling out of their situation because they are spending their money on drugs. (Something that has always baffled me, because drugs aren’t cheap, so how in the world can they afford to stay addicted?)

Now, it is a generalization. I realize not all poor people choose to stay poor. Some need to be educated that they do have the power to pull themselves out of poverty. (And yes, in the US, you do have that power, if you disagree with that, we are never going to agree).

To bring this back to the original post, instead of Catholic Charities asking for a minimum wage increase, they should be doing things that are more effective (and Christian) such as healing drug addicts with the love and forgiveness of Jesus Christ, thus giving them an opportunity to pull themselves out of poverty. (Just one example, not to say all poor people are drug addicts by any means.)

 

[boppaid]

For example, the Hispanic family right across the street from me is an excellent example of parents who are making sacrifices for thier children. Their children won’t be poor because of their sacrifice. Their kids are involved in things like band, where the parents work 120 hours a week between the two of them so that they can afford the instrument for their kid to excel and learn.

While I commend them for doing their best to bring their children a better life, I have to wonder if there is not a better way. I think our rich nation should help them. I think that we should somehow find a way to help them, even if it means raising taxes, so that parents aren’t working 120 hours per week! My gosh! Who is parenting those children? And how sad that they a without the parents for that many hours! This is when the government should lend a hand.

 

[mvinca]

While I commend them for doing their best to bring their children a better life, I have to wonder if there is not a better way. I think our rich nation should help them. I think that we should somehow find a way to help them, even if it means raising taxes, so that parents aren’t working 120 hours per week! My gosh! Who is parenting those children? And how sad that they a without the parents for that many hours! This is when the government should lend a hand.

That’s how my great grandparents did it. I don’t ever remember America promising a free ride, just opportunity.

 

[chicago]

That’s how my great grandparents did it. I don’t ever remember America promising a free ride, just opportunity.

Ah, yes. The good 'ole Protestant work ethic!